Current LawSuit

[Blakefire]

I know there is a current law suit going on, my question is, whats going on? I dont wanna spend my money on XenForo and find out in say 2 months they lose and XenForo has to suffer...

 

[Jake Bunce]

IPB has a downloads application, a web store application, a gallery application, a blog application, a content application, and a huge modification/ skinning community...

...Now on the other hand, XF itself is a very modern and up to date "forum". But thats all it is, a forum. People these days need more than that.

I would actually argue that forum applications should be judged on the basis of their forum component. Other applications like vB and IPB have fallen into the trap of trying to become whole site solutions. Feature creep galore. Especially vB... all focus for vB5 appears to be on non-forum features. The same was true for vB4. Meanwhile the forum component slowly rots.

I would also go farther and argue that customers who want whole site solutions are wrong in a sense. There are exceptions of course. But it has been my observation that the majority of forum sites gain little by installing peripheral applications. It is usually just an attempt to dress up the forum so that the site appears more complete, when in reality the site is the forum and the extra applications function more as garnish that is largely ignored by the user.

Focus on what matters, the forum application. And if you compare the forum components of XF, vB, and IPB, then XenForo is really holds its own. Big forums especially love XenForo because of its low resource usage. That translates into big savings in server costs. vB and IPB are resource hogs in comparison.

 

[Sadik B]

I would actually argue that forum applications should be judged on the basis of their forum component. Other applications like vB and IPB have fallen into the trap of trying to become whole site solutions. Feature creep galore. Especially vB... all focus for vB5 appears to be on non-forum features. The same was true for vB4. Meanwhile the forum component slowly rots.

I would also go farther and argue that customers who want whole site solutions are wrong in a sense. There are exceptions of course. But it has been my observation that the majority of forum sites gain little by installing peripheral applications. It is usually just an attempt to dress up the forum so that the site appears more complete, when in reality the site is the forum and the extra applications function more as garnish that is largely ignored by the user.

Focus on what matters, the forum application. And if you compare the forum components of XF, vB, and IPB, then XenForo is really holds its own. Big forums especially love XenForo because of its low resource usage. That translates into big savings in server costs. vB and IPB are resource hogs in comparison.

I mostly agree. However have you ever used a content construction kit (CCK) ? What I like about XF is it's MVC approach and extensibility. Xenforo's breakdown of functions is amazing to say the list. Whoever (I guess Mike or Kier) did the technical architecture is a coding genius. Now using the similar modular function breakdown if they made a CCK for XF, the whole need for reviews and galleries and cms or article system etc. etc. could be very efficiently met. If you have any experience with Joomla, I would suggest you to take a look at SEBLOD -> http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/authoring-a-content/content-construction/9128

It is a brilliant feat of software engineering in terms of scope it can cover, however arguably the coding standard is not as high as Xenforo. Essentially, in lay man's terms, it allows an admin to make a user submission content form and allows the admin to design the template page where the submitted content appears. So as an admin you can make a content type for threads or reviews or gallery or whatever you can imagine. This approach, i feel, is superior from a software creator's point of view than attempting to code a specific solution which will never meet everyone's expectations or requirements.

I have personally modified John's Forms Add-On to make a mini CCK for a site I have been working on long term, which I will post in the showcase forum, when it's ready. The entire site, with it's various sections runs on Xenforo and it's been a pleasure to work on primarily due to Xenforo's amazing internals.

 

[steven s]

I would actually argue that forum applications should be judged on the basis of their forum component. Other applications like vB and IPB have fallen into the trap of trying to become whole site solutions. Feature creep galore. Especially vB... all focus for vB5 appears to be on non-forum features. The same was true for vB4. Meanwhile the forum component slowly rots.

I would agree. The forum should be the strongest asset. vB was a home renovation gone bad. But people asked for a CMS, gallery and blog. People ask here also.

I would also go farther and argue that customers who want whole site solutions are wrong in a sense. There are exceptions of course. But it has been my observation that the majority of forum sites gain little by installing peripheral applications. It is usually just an attempt to dress up the forum so that the site appears more complete, when in reality the site is the forum and the extra applications function more as garnish that is largely ignored by the user.

The exceptions are those who don't want bridges, want a uniform appearance and not capable for doing it themselves. I think an analogy could be Mac desktops. At least the older ones. Unlike PCs, you couldn't mix and match or build your own. Apple designed their products with specific components. Few exceptions and the results they worked out of the box for people who didn't want to tinker getting their computer to work. And yes, people add to 'garnish' rather that provide functionality. Not to take away from XenPorta, but that seems to be the first thing people add. Some sites it works, others not so much. For one of my sites, I need a CMS of some sort. My other, vBadvanced is fine as a splash page.

Focus on what matters, the forum application. And if you compare the forum components of XF, vB, and IPB, then XenForo is really holds its own. Big forums especially love XenForo because of its low resource usage. That translates into big savings in server costs. vB and IPB are resource hogs in comparison.

XF does hold it's own but please don't think that everyone likes it or it's the solution for everyone. Forum owners may like it over other products, but it's the members who use the software that count. For me anyway. Not everyone shares that forums are for their members, that's fine. To each their own.

I suggested xf to my car club when still in the beta stage. I'm still glad I did. Our members? They couldn't care less. vB, IPB, phpBB. It didn't matter. It's still taking them awhile to get used to it over vB. No one has said they love it.

 

[Astrum]

I would agree. The forum should be the strongest asset. vB was a home renovation gone bad. But people asked for a CMS, gallery and blog. People ask here also.

I think the problem is vB is trying to enter a market that's already well entrenched by superior products. I think the forum should be the primary part to develop, but the core system should be sufficiently general enough to allow for things such as a CMS system or gallery or whatever very easily without it being specifically designed by the creators. Currently vB offers tailor made solutions which aren't great and XF's core isn't nearly general enough to offer a CMS (though a blog or gallery I think is perfectly doable).

The exceptions are those who don't want bridges, want a uniform appearance and not capable for doing it themselves. I think an analogy could be Mac desktops. At least the older ones. Unlike PCs, you couldn't mix and match or build your own. Apple designed their products with specific components. Few exceptions and the results they worked out of the box for people who didn't want to tinker getting their computer to work. And yes, people add to 'garnish' rather that provide functionality. Not to take away from XenPorta, but that seems to be the first thing people add. Some sites it works, others not so much. For one of my sites, I need a CMS of some sort. My other, vBadvanced is fine as a splash page.

I think bridges are the absolute worst solution to adding functionality to a codebase. Sure you might have an awesome forum package and an awesome blogging package, but as soon as you tie the two together with a bridge they both essentially lose functionality. Deep integration between the two systems isn't really possible and you generally end up with an asymmetric mess.

 

[Digital Doctor]

I have personally modified John's Forms Add-On to make a mini CCK for a site I have been working on long term, which I will post in the showcase forum, when it's ready. The entire site, with it's various sections runs on Xenforo and it's been a pleasure to work on primarily due to Xenforo's amazing internals.

Cool.
Start a thread !

 

[Digital Doctor]

I would actually argue that forum applications should be judged on the basis of their forum component. Other applications like vB and IPB have fallen into the trap of trying to become whole site solutions. Feature creep galore. Especially vB... all focus for vB5 appears to be on non-forum features. The same was true for vB4. Meanwhile the forum component slowly rots.

Xenforo would be making an enormous failure if they didn't plan on being a whole site solution.
Just because vB and IPB screwed it up doesn't make it a bad idea !
It's 100% needed.
Sites that are just forums are dying.
And for good reason, they don't contribute much original content.
People and Google search don't care about them anymore.
If your site is for you and a few friends. Sure, just be a forum.
But if you want to run a great community, you *desperately* need more than just a forum.
IMO.
vBSuite isn't a failure because of feature creep, it's a failure because it's terrible.

The math is easy. If XF created a "Wordpress like" Blog / Portal addon for $50, at least half of us would have bought it.
If Xenforo had of done a good job of Pages ... that would have been another game changer.
But anyway.

 

[Jake Bunce]

Sites that are just forums are dying.
And for good reason, they don't contribute much original content.

Forums don't contribute any content. People do.

 

[dutchbb]

Sites that are just forums are dying.
And for good reason, they don't contribute much original content.
People and Google search don't care about them anymore.

This part couldn't be more wrong looking at our site/forum.

But sure having more than just a forum is even better.

BUT I DON'T want something similar to vB. Should the developers of XF ever decide to create a CMS they should do a proper job and make a standalone quality CMS, that integrates very well with XF. Not some half-assed add-on.

 

[Pereira]

It seems you are living in wonderland.

Reality actually.

 

[Shelley]

*Always thought forum houses content whether it's good or bad* #iwaswrong #mistakeswillbemade #spidermanthemovie #withgreatpowercomesgreatresponsibility

 

[AlexT]

deleted

 

[Vicros]

I would actually argue that forum applications should be judged on the basis of their forum component. Other applications like vB and IPB have fallen into the trap of trying to become whole site solutions. Feature creep galore. Especially vB... all focus for vB5 appears to be on non-forum features. The same was true for vB4. Meanwhile the forum component slowly rots.

I would also go farther and argue that customers who want whole site solutions are wrong in a sense. There are exceptions of course. But it has been my observation that the majority of forum sites gain little by installing peripheral applications. It is usually just an attempt to dress up the forum so that the site appears more complete, when in reality the site is the forum and the extra applications function more as garnish that is largely ignored by the user.

Focus on what matters, the forum application. And if you compare the forum components of XF, vB, and IPB, then XenForo is really holds its own. Big forums especially love XenForo because of its low resource usage. That translates into big savings in server costs. vB and IPB are resource hogs in comparison.

I see your point, but its about having options or the ability to integrate a certain application to help make ur site grow. XF has no ability to allow that. IF you want a highly efficient webstore theres not one, if you want a highly efficient content application theres not one, if you want a downloads application, there isnt one. That stuff is a big deal to most forums now a days. Living in the past or what used to work is no longer an option. XF as a forum itself, yes is very nice and one of the best for sure. But its to the point now where that just doesnt work anymore, phpbb is free but its pretty much dead because it didnt evolve with the times. People spend money on things they need, Im just saying look at all points. If your able to broaden your reach, then do it. It has worked very well for IPB.

vB 5 is trying and its actually not that bad, being an alpha/beta tester myself i like it. The admin side is no longer that ugly silver list of stuff. I say try it out when it releases, but imo XF still beats it. I also know its hard for just a few guys to do everything, but maybe hire some good coders who can help build things like downloads, webstore and such. Would be very beneficial for XF itself. Having options is never a bad thing.

 

[Digital Doctor]

Forums don't contribute any content. People do.

And they are doing it more and more via social media, blogs, etc.
Not on forums.
Online forum-based communities need better content tools than just threads.

 

[Jake Bunce]

And they are doing it more and more via social media, blogs, etc.
Not on forums.
Online forum-based communities need better content tools than just threads.

So if you add peripheral applications like a portal, blog, and gallery then people will post more content?

Portals are usually just pulling threads from the forum. Blogs are really very similar to forums except they are more serving one person than an entire community. Galleries are... well OK you would get pictures in a central place which can be a better organization than pictures on a forum.

Just be mindful that you aren't following an internet fashion. I remember during the web 2.0 era I had people wanting to run blogs instead of forums because blogs are web 2.0 and forums are web 1.0. I was like

 

[Digital Doctor]

So if you add peripheral applications like a portal, blog, and gallery then people will post more content?

I think XenPorta (a portal) supplements the forums and is a good idea.

Portals are usually just pulling threads from the forum. Blogs are really very similar to forums except they are more serving one person than an entire community. Galleries are... well OK you would get pictures in a central place which can be a better organization than pictures on a forum.

For my needs, Blog entries shouldn't be about who wrote them, they should be about content. At Xenforo.com, the announcements forum is a blog. Other content that would work for a KAM-directed Xenforo blog would be the "Have you seen" forum.

Just be mindful that you aren't following an internet fashion. I remember during the web 2.0 era I had people wanting to run blogs instead of forums because blogs are web 2.0 and forums are web 1.0. I was like

Blogs are popular. A Wordpress blog is a one man show, with comments sprinkled in. A forum is much more interactive and community-based.

Communities need *NEW* content tools. You've only suggested the usual suspects (gallery, blog, portal). Those aren't what I'm wanting for the future.

A good example of a need is community-driven documentation. Just like we need here at Xenforo.com. That's what forum-based communities need. The software that provides something like that will be leading the way.

IMO.

 

[Jungalist81]

Blogs are popular. A Wordpress blog is a one man show, with comments sprinkled in. A forum is much more interactive and community-based.

Any of the software mentioned is widely used.

I agree with Digital Doctor that we need community-driven documentation. Xenforo is the pioneer of Forums!

 

[Vicros]

Any of the software mentioned is widely used.

I agree with Digital Doctor that we need community-driven documentation. Xenforo is the pioneer of Forums!

OMG really? lol..ok Dude how new are u to forums? Cuz thats not something a veteran would say. Thats more of a noobie statement. Actually the pioneer of forums is PHPBB. You need to do your research. Just cuz you like something you dont have to be a blinded fanboy. XF is an awesome forum, but thats all it is, a forum. Nothing more.

 

[Klaas]

First of all: pioneer in what? phpBB like vBulletin was inspired by UBB, how does that make them a pioneer? It's just one of the free solutions written in php. phpBB came after vBulletin which came after Phorum. In other words, phpBB did nothing new, it was a free clone.

Timeline: http://www.forum-software.org/sites.../images/timeline/forum-softwares-timeline.png

I wouldn't call XF a pioneer but it sure did more innovating things than phpBB did when it first started. phpBB is 12y old and XF did everything plus more in one year of development. Of course to be fair, phpBB is free while XF is not.

 

[Vicros]

First of all: pioneer in what? phpBB like vBulletin was inspired by UBB, how does that make them a pioneer? It's just one of the free solutions written in php. phpBB came after vBulletin which came after Phorum. In other words, phpBB did nothing new, it was a free clone.

Timeline: http://www.forum-software.org/sites.../images/timeline/forum-softwares-timeline.png

I wouldn't call XF a pioneer but it sure did more innovating things than phpBB did when it first started. phpBB is 12y old and XF did everything plus more in one year of development.

Uh no sorry bud. Phpbb was a pioneer in the fact it was the first largest forum software used. Phpbb held the title, it was the most advanced at the time. Its what other forums were trying to accomplish, vBulletin finally surpassed it, but it was too late as IPB had already claimed the title and still holds it. I think ur looking at the phpbb3 timeline, the original phpbb came out in the mid 90's. I know because i used it, in 1996 on my first forum. I was around back then and have been in this business since then.
Btw without phpbb we would not have XF so no XF did not innovate anything more than Phpbb did. Stop being such a fanboy. Phpbb is alot older than 12.

 

[CFodder]

I don't think he meant XF is the actual pioneer of forums ... well I hope not coz that would be deluded. Certainly a great innovation of them though.

Have to agree that would've loved a proper CMS (not XenPorta) for XF, but a decently coded one - got caught with VB4 and well, we all know what that was like when released.