Current LawSuit

[Blakefire]

I know there is a current law suit going on, my question is, whats going on? I dont wanna spend my money on XenForo and find out in say 2 months they lose and XenForo has to suffer...

 

[FredC]

Ya but we get bored and restless when we arnt upgrading our forums twice a day. You know daily point update and the subsequent security fix.

 

[Robert F Schmitz]

Ya but we get bored and restless when we arnt upgrading our forums twice a day. You know daily point update and the subsequent security fix.

LOL I realize we are getting off-topic but your post made me laugh and reminded me of a posting I saw on vB yesterday. Mind you this is extracted from the overall post but fits the mindset of some.

but updates with XF are practically nill. In 6 months I upgraded my board once. source

Personally I much rather spend my time figuring out the workings and learning something versus having to do upgrades. To the OP, the lawsuit issue is moot really in regards to the software. I used vb3 then went to vb4 and after too many issues with the software I switched to xF. As others noted here, it is stable and has good 3rd party development support and fills my needs. Who knows what the future brings but for the foreseeable future, this is working well for me.

 

[MikeMpls]

Regardless of Internet Brands ability to win the case, they've won the war. The effective pressure being applied has slowed development. IB will be able to get Vbulletin 5 out the door by the time the battle at trial is over. It's unfortunate really.

Sure there will be other wars to fight, but I think we've seen who the winner is here.

But the big questiuon is, will VB5 be any better than VB4, or will it just alienate more of their customer base?

This changed after IB took over development. Suddenly versioning didn't make sense. vB4 would have been better labelled as 3.9. Subsequent updates to vB4 also failed to live up to their version increases. There has been confusion in status labels as well. For example, 4.2 went from alpha to beta to gold in the span of 6 days. That makes no sense and basically means the labels are meaningless.

This is what happens when the schedule is supreme and you release bugs on schedule.

Ya but we get bored and restless when we arnt upgrading our forums twice a day. You know daily point update and the subsequent security fix.

And some of us just aren't interested in updating anything unless we have a compelling reason to. I've never updated any of my 4 vBulletin boards. I've only updated 1 of my 6 XenForo boards because I wanted the prefix tags and a number of users were begging for an ignore option. I could use prefix tags on one more, so that might happen, but I much prefer spending my time generating content and encouraging users.

Spam management might get me to do some serious one-time updating.

 

[Kintaro]

In the case xenforo ltd will wins... They will be refunded for all the money spent in lawyers?

 

[Hlchia]

Just an idea, perhaps XF can release the Resource Add-on as a beta to current license owners, and start charging only when the lawsuit has been concluded to the benefit of XF.

The Resource add-on can be a game-changer for people who are undecided to switch to XF or continue on XF. This helps to build the revenue base and recurring license renewal fees

XF will not not loose revenue on resource add-on as they can start charging for it when the law suit is over

 

[Jake Bunce]

In the case xenforo ltd will wins... They will be refunded for all the money spent in lawyers?

Basically yes. XenForo's lawyers intend to ask the court for summary judgment in their favor and then to seek recovery of attorney fees. Such a proposal was filed last Fall before the case was scheduled to go to trial. But then the case was delayed due to new claims by Plaintiff.

See document 80-6 for reference:

http://shamil.co.uk/vbulletin-solutions-vs-xenforo-limited-etc/us-docket-files.html
> http://shamil.co.uk/pdf/vbsi-xfl/80-6.pdf

That is the proposed order signalling the intent of XenForo's lawyers:

Having reviewed and considered the papers submitted by the parties with respect to Defendants XenForo Limited’s and Kier Darby’s Motion For Summary Judgment (“Motion”), and finding good cause therefor, IT IS ORDERED THAT:
1. The Motion is GRANTED.
2. The First Amended Complaint is dismissed with prejudice.
3. Judgment shall be entered in favor of Defendants.
4. As the prevailing parties, Defendants are entitled to seek recovery of
their attorneys’ fees and costs of suit. Defendants shall file their motion for attorneys’ fees and costs of suit within 14 days after entry of judgment. The judgment shall be amended to reflect the amount of Defendants’ award.

 

[snoopy5]

But the big questiuon is, will VB5 be any better than VB4...
...

Definitely not. I think we can be sure, that vb will handle vb5 the same way they handled vb4. And this means it will be the same bad coding, bad communication policy incl. overpromising and underdelivering, lieing etc., just to sell licences.

It is their own fault, that each month more and more old vb users are switching to xenforo. Even this joke of a lawsuit will not help vb to stop this movement.

 

[TNCclubman]

The biggest thing thats come out of this has been the stall in feature development for xF. until the case is resolved, all major features have been put on hold in my experience being here since day 30.... we're just getting bug fixes and nick nacks for admins. 2 years between major user features is a lifetime in internet terms.

 

[User]

Definitely not. I think we can be sure, that vb will handle vb5 the same way they handled vb4. And this means it will be the same bad coding, bad communication policy incl. overpromising and underdelivering, lieing etc., just to sell licences.

It is their own fault, that each month more and more old vb users are switching to xenforo.

Do you have any actual numbers to back this claim up? I haven't been here in about a year and I found XF the way I left it a year ago. This forum picked up about 4k users in 1 year but it's been a far cry from the success that many had forecast in terms of admins abandoning other forum solutions and flocking to XF. Don't get me wrong, I'd be overjoyed if XF became a mainstream success, but as of now it is merely a tiny niche product with little core developer support and most certainly a very small 3rd party dev community compared to other scripts out there. So yeah, I'd be curious to see some actual evidence of all those vb users switching to XF each month.

 

[Steve F]

http://xenforo.com/community/threads/10000-registered-memebers-on-xenforo.19284/#post-247864

Not quite even a year yet, looks like 12k members in years time. I'm sure with the recent spam bot fest that should be about 3k less in reality. Not sure on former vb users coming here but I do see new posts in the customer forums from new users daily.

 

[Gabby]

Since there are search features on this board and there have been a plethora of post about this, I often wonder if those that continue to create posts in this "Pre-sales" section are doing this for less than admirable purposes. Sometimes, or rather more often than not, this is my impression of threads like this, especially this one. Perhaps it's time for XF to maintain a blog about this and stop allowing these types of post to this forum?

And I will say this, XF is NOTHING like VB in terms of performance and look and feel and I appreciate not having to upgrade my forum as much. I think not having all these upgrades and patches may seem unusual and perhaps uncomfortable for some, but the old saying does hold true.. "No news is good news." Perhaps this saying goes for updates and upgrades-sans important security patches-which from what I've seen rarely needs to happen with XF in comparison.

 

[Jake Bunce]

I have been nothing but busy with forum support. Lots of customization requests, imports, development requests, etc. The imports are mostly vB to XF. I have only had one person in the last year who wanted me to migrate his forum to vB and that was a megabbs forum. My workload has only gone up over time. In fact I have to turn down jobs due to lack of free time.

Do you have any actual numbers to back this claim up? I haven't been here in about a year and I found XF the way I left it a year ago. This forum picked up about 4k users in 1 year but it's been a far cry from the success that many had forecast in terms of admins abandoning other forum solutions and flocking to XF. Don't get me wrong, I'd be overjoyed if XF became a mainstream success, but as of now it is merely a tiny niche product with little core developer support and most certainly a very small 3rd party dev community compared to other scripts out there. So yeah, I'd be curious to see some actual evidence of all those vb users switching to XF each month.

As Qwk86gn said, your numbers are wrong. Looking at user_ids and registration dates, it's actually 14,000 users registered in the last year out of 24,000. Given 2 years of existence, that means more users registered in the second year than in the first year. So I think the question becomes, do you have any numbers to backup your claim?

 

[Jake Bunce]

Since there are search features on this board and there have been a plethora of post about this, I often wonder if those that continue to create posts in this "Pre-sales" section are doing this for less than admirable purposes.

Intention isn't necessary. Misery loves company. It's that simple. Those who are concerned want other people to be concerned. It's a very natural social behavior.

 

[Gabby]

Intention isn't necessary. Misery loves company. It's that simple. Those who are concerned want other people to be concerned. It's a very natural social behavior.

While I appreciate this concept, some of these types of posts are VERY obvious, yet they continue to be allowed? If I ran XF, this crap would end now with a link to my site and a blog concerning the situation. It's so ridiculous to keeping allowing all this lawsuit talk when the reality is, it's ALL lay conjecture and fear mongoring.

 

[Dad.]

While I appreciate this concept, some of these types of posts are VERY obvious, yet they continue to be allowed? If I ran XF, this crap would end now with a link to my site and a blog concerning the situation. It's so ridiculous to keeping allowing all this lawsuit talk when the reality is, it's ALL lay conjecture and fear mongoring.

Thats not true, at least not entirely. Many of us are legitimately concerned. Almost all of us, I know I count myself, want XenForo to win the lawsuit. And want them to keep fighting so they can. But we are worried, not fear mongering.

 

[Gabby]

I totally understand the worrying, however, ONE thread or ONE BLOG post should suffice. Not this constant starting of new threads rehashing the same stuff.

 

[AlexT]

deleted

 

[User]

As Qwk86gn said, your numbers are wrong. Looking at user_ids and registration dates, it's actually 14,000 users registered in the last year out of 24,000. Given 2 years of existence, that means more users registered in the second year than in the first year. So I think the question becomes, do you have any numbers to backup your claim?

I don't actually have any data to back up the 18k registered last year when I left. Looking at the IDs it seems that I must have seen 8k back then and made an 18k out of it. So clearly I got the 18k wrong.

On the other hand registered users don't necessarily translate into paying customers which don't translate into active installs (I paid but I don't use XF) and it certainly doesn't translate into many admins abandoning vB every month as stated.

I do agree that this discussion is moot to a point because at the end of the day it doesn't matter to me and it doesn't matter to the reader. Each admin has to decide for him/herself whether or not XF is the solution to deploy. One year ago I didn't believe it to be the right choice for a production site and I still don't believe that it is today. I'll check back in a year.

 

[Jake Bunce]

On the other hand registered users don't necessarily translate into paying customers which don't translate into active installs (I paid but I don't use XF) and it certainly doesn't translate into many admins abandoning vB every month as stated.

I do agree that this discussion is moot to a point because at the end of the day it doesn't matter to me and it doesn't matter to the reader.

That's true. The problem is that you used the member count to support your previous claim, and now you are saying it doesn't necessarily mean anything. Having negated your own information source I would agree that the discussion is now moot.

 

[jadmperry]

I am a fan of proper use of the term "moot." Rarer than you might think.

Generally, I am not a fan of people (especially those with technical knowledge of a subject) just saying, "I am right because I know more than others."

That said, I will take a leap, and do essentially that (with the caveat that most of my 600+ plus posts have dealt with addressing substantive legal issues- if anyone wants to debate a point from my numerous posts on the subject, have at it). I have been an attorney for more than 10 years, am admitted to practice before several Federal Courts (including the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, which is the final tribunal below the US Supreme Court). From all of the pleadings, filings in the case that I have seen, and my analysis of the law, the claims against XF will not prevail (from a factual point of view, because all of the filed discovery negates or contradicts IB's position; from a legal point of view, because I think the claims asserted, even if true, do not allow for a finding in favor of IB). I could be wrong (or I could be right and the trial court errs). However, I would not bet against my opinions. Oh, yeah, I also slept at a Holiday Inn last night.