Lack of interest bridge the best, rather than make mediocrity

[Trevor Hateley]

Witnessing the downfall of vBulletin, and with it the software my business has relied on, I'd like to make a plea: don't waste your time aspiring to mediocrity.

A forum software team can create the best forum software, but they're not going to make a better blog than WordPress. Nor are they going to make a better CMS than Joomla or Drupal.

I believe the time and effort spent creating mediocre add-ons would be better spent on 1st-party bridges for the best software.

 

[Morgain]

It's a genuinely difficult issue.
I tried using the wordpress bridge and another one. I HATED it both times.
Two different admin systems to learn - and trouble is XF is so superior on the backend other systems are therefore very difficult by comparison.
Both times the other system took days of petty work to design to look similar and never did really.
Both times I had to cut out loads of bloat I didn't need and that took template edits and fuss. Not like XF.

XF addons are generally very good. They work and they get supported by a strong community as well as their coders.
If a coder dropw out mostly they have made arrangements - handed their addons on, or notified they will continue support but no new ones.

I'd definitely go with an XF addon.

 

[Kim]

I also hate using Wordpress, compared to Xenforo it is clumsy and awkward to do most everything, other than upgrade! And I don't want or need a second membership DB, nor to have other Authors etc.

Joomla and Drupal are way overkill for most, and difficult to use, very difficult to style to match, none have the beauty and ease of use of Xenforo.

As such, I have to disagree with you overall, for some sites what you are saying is true, but for those of us who do not have technical bent, what you are suggesting is less than desirable, a cobbling together of two non compatible and often overlapping solutions is not better than a slick integrated solution imho.

 

[Forsaken]

Also into the fact that you then have to manage another system and whatever themes and add-ons you use there.

Bridging really isn't the answer in most cases, though it probably works for small sites.

 

[cellarius]

I disagree. Fore one, I really don't think Joomla or Drupal are really good CMS. Second, much of what you need for a good CMS is already present in xF. You just need to make use of it in a proper way. The vB failure is not a very valid example for many reasons, one of them being the stupid decision to screw a CMS with a new code philospophy and db strucutre on top of the old forum. A xF-CMS will not come overnight, and it need not do anything - but I am sure the framework is very expandable and very much capable of handling the basic needs.

 

[Morgain]

Content Management Framework looks prom ising and they tell us that there will be a Simple Portal as well.

 

[Trevor Hateley]

I disagree. Fore one, I really don't think Joomla or Drupal are really good CMS.

I believe The Economist, NASA, The White House, and The Onion would rather stick with Drupal than some forum-software CMS, but stranger things have happened.

Both times the other system took days of petty work to design to look similar and never did really.
Both times I had to cut out loads of bloat I didn't need and that took template edits and fuss. Not like XF.

I understand third party bridges aren't always up to snuff, I personally don't trust them because the developers eventually get bored and don't fix all the bugs. Hence my desire for a first party bridge.

Also, a bridge that automatically copies your forum theme is definitely possible. I helped on a project called "vBdrupal" where they did that with Drupal and vBulletin. It worked very well, with no more tweaking than any other CMS would need.

The project died because vBulletin updates killed it, since they had no interest in bridging their software.

Bridging really isn't the answer in most cases, though it probably works for small sites.

I personally don't read any blogs that are run on vBulletin or IPB. What popular blogs do you know that run them?

Here are the big sites vBulletin boasts about:

flyertalk.com (wordpress for blogs, vbulletin for forums)
NASA (drupal for CMS, vbulletin for forums)
EA (drupal for CMS on various games, vbulletin for forums on various games)

I also looked at Zynga, Steam, Denver Broncos, BodyBuilding, and all the other "big" sites vBulletin lists on their homepage. They all have a CMS, some have blogs, but none of them use vBulletin or IPB or any other forum software for blogs or CMS.

Of course, the money isn't in catering to big sites.

 

[Forsaken]

I understand third party bridges aren't always up to snuff, I personally don't trust them because the developers eventually get bored and don't fix all the bugs. Hence my desire for a first party bridge.

Also, a bridge that automatically copies your forum theme is definitely possible. I helped on a project called "vBdrupal" where they did that with Drupal and vBulletin. It worked very well, with no more tweaking than any other CMS would need.

The project died because vBulletin had no interest in bridging their software.



I personally don't read any blogs that are run on vBulletin or IP. What popular blogs do you know that run them?

Here are the big sites vBulletin boasts about:

flyertalk.com (wordpress for blogs, vbulletin for forums)
NASA (drupal for CMS, vbulletin for forums)
EA (drupal for CMS on various games, vbulletin for forums on various games)

I also looked at Zynga, Steam, Denver Broncos, BodyBuilding, and all the other "big" sites vBulletin lists on their homepage. They all have a CMS, some have blogs, but none of them use vBulletin or IPB or any other forum software for such services.

Of course, the money isn't in catering to big sites.

Your comparisons don't make much sense..?

Flyertalk is using Wordpress as CMS, not as user blogs so the comparison between them is pointless. Wordpress/Wordpress MU aren't a good solution for integrated blogs because they're separated from the actual forums, requiring more work on the part of users to use them. There is also the fact that bridges have a tendency to break with upgrades, and that you are then maintaining multiple softwares and add-ons (Especially Wordpress which is prone to exploits).

Anyone with any sense would never use vBulletin as a CMS. It is the most ridiculous and useless halfassed CMS system known to man so obviously it's not going to be used by big companies or sites. Most companies will go with either a true CMS (Drupal is iffy imo) or with a custom solution to fit their needs.

XenForo shouldn't try to offer every possible add-on like IPB does as it'll distract from the focus of the core product. I actually prefer third-party add-ons to official ones because third-party add-ons are more likely to get the features you request than an official one will.

 

[Trevor Hateley]

The point was that big sites prefer specialized software. But I agree, I'd rather have xenforo focus on great forum software than spread themselves thin like IPB.

 

[Shelley]

The point was that big sites prefer specialized software. But I agree, I'd rather have xenforo focus on great forum software than spread themselves thin like IPB.

They aren't spreading themselves thin though and xenforo isn't IPB, xenforo is xenforo. Most of the add-ons you recommending bridging for are here already, being developed further from the 3rd party members (who actually do support and continue supporting their add-ons to a high standard) perhaps you have had bad experiences elsewhere but prime examples is we've started seeing add-on developers working together integrating add-ons even more and it works out great. I think integration is important, it's what people want from what I've seen and this is what they are getting. I wouldn't exactly call this mediocrity.

Like I always suggest when somebody asks "which is the best graphics editor" my reply is there isn't one. The editor is only as good as the person using it. Not dismissing the fact the bridging for the popular blogs, cms shouldn't happen but I personally find them bloated and much prefer using something created by the add-on creators which develop inline to xenforo standards thus giving us a streamlined seamless integrated products.

 

[Sage Knight]

vB CMS, was a total mess, and this is coming from personal experience.

"Bridging" two totally different and non-related software is a nightmare, it would eventually break at some point and would require constant monitoring and patching to work on each update.

 

[Deepmartini]

Content Management Framework looks prom ising and they tell us that there will be a Simple Portal as well.

Any updates on when this is coming out?

 

[Morgain]

I get the impression before the end of the month.

 

[Digital Doctor]

Any updates on when this is coming out?

http://xenforo.com/community/threads/simple-portal.45406/
http://xenforo.com/community/threads/content-management-framework.45066/

 

[craigiri]

BTW, Obama used Expression Engine to get elected - twice I think!

And that software has not been properly updated in years - in 2008 they started and they still have hundreds of bugs.

So much for having a good bridge to....what?

I use wordpress for personally blogging. It is good for exactly what it does - but, IMHO, not a real CMS unless very heavily modified.

I understand the suggestion and would love to see (and probably buy) a high quality WP bridge with developers who stand behind it. But I don't want it done by the XF team, which is too small already! It's a great opportunity for a very serious company or developer.

BTW, on the expression engine side of things, a few top developers invested heavily...and have reaped lots of reward. An example is solspace:
http://www.solspace.com/
(they claim more than 10,000 customers and their add-ons can be costly).

Compare this to Robbo's gallery or the Gitar (Sp) CMS which either never came to fruition or have more and more delays even after being funded big time.

What is needed here - overall - is a few good men and women who become professional. And I'm not talking just in the coding....Robbo and the others may be the best, but they certainly are not business people or marketers. We need a bit of consistency and longevity here. I think we will get more now that the storm has passed.

A really good WP bridge could fetch $100 easily and also a $20 a year update fee.

 

[Forsaken]

BTW, Obama used Expression Engine to get elected - twice I think!

And that software has not been properly updated in years - in 2008 they started and they still have hundreds of bugs.

So much for having a good bridge to....what?

I use wordpress for personally blogging. It is good for exactly what it does - but, IMHO, not a real CMS unless very heavily modified.

I understand the suggestion and would love to see (and probably buy) a high quality WP bridge with developers who stand behind it. But I don't want it done by the XF team, which is too small already! It's a great opportunity for a very serious company or developer.

BTW, on the expression engine side of things, a few top developers invested heavily...and have reaped lots of reward. An example is solspace:
http://www.solspace.com/
(they claim more than 10,000 customers and their add-ons can be costly).

Compare this to Robbo's gallery or the Gitar (Sp) CMS which either never came to fruition or have more and more delays even after being funded big time.

What is needed here - overall - is a few good men and women who become professional. And I'm not talking just in the coding....Robbo and the others may be the best, but they certainly are not business people or marketers. We need a bit of consistency and longevity here. I think we will get more now that the storm has passed.

A really good WP bridge could fetch $100 easily and also a $20 a year update fee.

Robbo is a bad example for a funded add-on honestly... There are quite a few add-ons that have been funded and were released, or were completed and kept private. This comes down to ethics and a different issue and I won't get into it .

Also a good WP bridge would probably have to go for around $200 per person with a renewal; there is a lot more work than people assume, and a lot of that work is in keeping functionality in WP supported or supporting widely used add-ons. When you consider that every blogger or forum owner has a different need it seriously becomes an intensive undertaking which is why most people have no intention of dealing with it.

 

[Trevor Hateley]

Also a good WP bridge would probably have to go for around $200 per person with a renewal; there is a lot more work than people assume, and a lot of that work is in keeping functionality in WP supported or supporting widely used add-ons.

The cost isn't a big deal.

What's needed is some assurance that my site's software will still be updated and fixed in 2017. If XF made a bridge, I'd believe in it and pay whatever they asked. If a 3rd party made a bridge, they'd need to convince me.

A 3rd party bridge has to deal with two entities that don't care about his software. A 1st party bridge only has to deal with one entity.