Ashamed to be British

I'd like to thank Dr. Watson for bringing a new word into my lexicon. Conurbation. I had never heard this word before.

LOL :D

It's a word I knew, but I can't remember ever using it before, I only used it to try to get across to non-UK readers that the likes of [Greater] London & Manchester are actually made-up of more than a single city, plus a few towns thrown in for good measure. A guess 'mega-cities' work too, but not sure how wildly used that term is, so conurbation is was. :)
 
What they rioting about now?, hey someone stole my jam sandwich..... RAAAAAAAAAAAA :)
 
What they rioting about now?, hey someone stole my jam sandwich..... RAAAAAAAAAAAA :)

A little more than that, from one of my earlier posts...

Personally I had expected some riots this summer, but nothing on this scale, things have been building for a long time, it's like a pressure cooker that has finally exploded.

We already had major problems in many inner city areas, before the recession, youngsters that have little chance of making anything of themselves because of things like schools failing them, lack of jobs, totally disenfranchised and with no real stalk in their community, the gap between the rich & poor continues to raise, massive government cut-backs in services, tax increases, fuel & food costs out of control, etc., etc.

It's certainly not as easy as dismissing it as a few louts and criminals, this is a far bigger problem, there are increasing numbers across the country that feel fed-up with being screwed over by the banks and big business and what they see as their political puppets.

One post I read made an interesting point - whatever the cost of damage to property in all this, it will still only be a tiny fraction of the damage inflicted by the bankers - and they walked away with massive bonuses and pay-offs, not just a telly from Curry's.

I am certainly not making excuses for them, just trying to put some context to it.

And just to add one last thing - these are NOT race riots, if they need a label 'class war' perhaps sums it up better. :(

Funny enough, I was reminded earlier today of a speech by the leader of the Liberal Democrats, Nick Clegg, before last year's election - he warned that electing a Conservative/Tory government with the cuts they planned would result in riots in our inner cities.

Our [now] Tory Prime Minister claimed it was a very silly thing to say.

Here's a short Sky News report from the time...

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I bet they both would like to forget that, now they are in a Tory/LibDen coalition government. :D

Not that electing a Labour or Labour/LibDem coalition government would have made much of a different IMO, cuts were coming anyway, maybe not so deep and not so soon, but trouble was ahead :(
 
OMG - Sky News is reporting on vigilante groups roaming the streets of London, because 'the police can't cope', despite the extra resources poured in tonight, they are interviewing one group's leader that is coming across as a serious bonehead.

Don't want. :(
 
OMG - Sky News is reporting on vigilante groups roaming the streets of London, because 'the police can't cope', despite the extra resources poured in tonight, they are interviewing one group's leader that is coming across as a serious bonehead.

Don't want. :(

Are they actually roaming the streets? What I'm seeing is they're standing guarding their buildings of worship. And the extra police is making a difference also in london from what I'm seeing on the tv.
 
Are they actually roaming the streets? What I'm seeing is they're standing guarding their buildings of worship. And the extra police is making a difference also in london from what I'm seeing on the tv.

Just saw that lot, Sikhs I think, as you say guarding their place of worship, no problem with that particularly - also no problem with groups of people hanging about guarding their own streets/homes.

The ones I was posting about were a bunch of heavy-built types, Sky was saying about 60, that were patrolling/roaming the area - the leader came across as thick as two short planks, gave the impression of being a BNP/EDL type, although I could be jumping to conclusion there, which would be wrong. But, he did seriously come across as looking for and wanting a bloody good punch-up. :(
 
Another post from elsewhere, commenting on it being pretty bloody quiet in his part of London tonight compared with yesterday....

"It is like christmas without the presents. Unless you have been out looting last night in which case it is just like christmas. Unless you got caught, in which case it probably isn't like christmas at all."

:D
 
Just saw that lot, Sikhs I think, as you say guarding their place of worship, no problem with that particularly - also no problem with groups of people hanging about guarding their own streets/homes.

The ones I was posting about were a bunch of heavy-built types, Sky was saying about 60, that were patrolling/roaming the area - the leader came across as thick as two short planks, gave the impression of being a BNP/EDL type, although I could be jumping to conclusion there, which would be wrong. But, he did seriously come across as looking for and wanting a bloody good punch-up. :(

I just watched that video and the guy clearly explained they were patrolling the streets and will apprehend any thugs/looters until the police get to their location for the police to deal with. You were referring to the guy and the group from enfield?

Police station in Nottingham police confirmed has just been Fire bombed. Parts of Leicester also getting hit.

Edit: it seems Manchester is seeing the worst of hit tonight.
 
I just watched that video and the guy clearly explained they were patrolling the streets and will apprehend any thugs/looters until the police get to their location for the police to deal with. You were referring to the guy and the group from enfield?

That was the guy, and you believed what he was claiming? Sorry, but he just doesn't come across as legit to me, maybe because I've encountered too many people that come across like he did, very nasty people, as I say I could be wrong, but that's my gut feeling. :(

Police station in Nottingham police confirmed has just been Fire bombed. Parts of Leicester also getting hit.

Edit: it seems Manchester is seeing the worst of hit tonight.

Yep, seems like the police are holding London OK so far, but Greater Manchester, West Midlands , Nottingham & Leicester are struggling - but all of those cities combined have not reached anywhere near the level of *war* that occurred in London last night, which is good.
 
Only in Britain, amid a city in chaos people make tea.

6024429000_31f466c7bb_b.jpg
 
That was the guy, and you believed what he was claiming? Sorry, but he just doesn't come across as legit to me, maybe because I've encountered too many people that come across like he did, very nasty people, as I say I could be wrong, but that's my gut feeling. :(

Yep, seems like the police are holding London OK so far, but Greater Manchester, West Midlands , Nottingham & Leicester are struggling - but all of those cities combined have not reached anywhere near the level of *war* that occurred in London last night, which is good.

Yeah I have to admit, I believe his intentions if he catches any of the thugs it will be a case of dealt with accordingly. Then allow the police to handle them. We will see I suppose.

Hearing sky news at the time of writing they are talking about cctv I really hope they catch and prosecute those caught and can be identified through the cctv system.
 
Ironically, in a years time London will be filled with more people running around for gold, silver and bronze... once again all started by a single gunshot
 
Only in Britain, amid a city in chaos people make tea.

6024429000_31f466c7bb_b.jpg
Is that a cop or a meter maid? She doesn't exactly strike fear in to the hearts of men. Get Gwen Cooper out there!

BTW, why the hell have we only seen one season of the Sarah Jane Adventures on BBC America?
 
How can people blame this on cuts. The scum that are doing this will not be affected by cuts, they don't have jobs, don't want jobs and never will have a job. In reality cuts were happening 3 years ago when the private sector was hit with massive job losses, no riots then. It is just lack of government, especially for the last 13/14 years in the UK when society has been allowed to get like this ..... no respect .... no family values ..... no father figure.... just a broken society.
I am emotive about this at the moment because i'm sitting by my window with my trusty hitting stick while i watch scum head for the nearby shopping centre to loot. I live in Wolverhampton where it is happening and i'm fearful my car will be turned and set alight.
 
I do wish people would read my posts! :D

It appears the army can't be moved in legally, without a vote in Parliament, which is on holiday, the police are trained to deal with riots and the army are not, soldiers are not employed for riot control and could make the whole situation worst, they are likely to refuse to fight their own people, if the army was called in it could result in a collapse in the stock-market and our currency.

Also, the majority of these rioters are teenagers, some as young as 11, some into their 20s, maybe a few older ones - we need to control kids, not kill them!

Our police do not have water cannons, the police have never used them on the mainland, they would need to get them from Northern Ireland, they are useful for dealing with and moving large groups of rioters, here we have small mobile groups popping up all over the place, many on bikes, as soon as a water cannon appeared the small crowd would melt away and pop-up elsewhere, pre-arranged on their mobile phones. Water cannon would be useless.

I hope you read this post! :)
Clearly something needs to happen, there's always an excuse to do nothing. Police can't handle it, this is unacceptable. People are losing businesses they have build up in 11 years.

These teenagers laugh at the police, they are not 'kids' anymore but criminals. Zero tolerance is required: curfew and more police on the streets. If they can't control, yes other options need to be looked at.

And I disagree about the water cannons too. They can be effective in many different occasions and are often used on even a single person.
 
How can people blame this on cuts. The scum that are doing this will not be affected by cuts, they don't have jobs, don't want jobs and never will have a job. In reality cuts were happening 3 years ago when the private sector was hit with massive job losses, no riots then. It is just lack of government, especially for the last 13/14 years in the UK when society has been allowed to get like this ..... no respect .... no family values ..... no father figure.... just a broken society.
I am emotive about this at the moment because i'm sitting by my window with my trusty hitting stick while i watch scum head for the nearby shopping centre to loot. I live in Wolverhampton where it is happening and i'm fearful my car will be turned and set alight.

Who's claimed the bit in bold above?

I've listed a whole list of things behind what has been happening, and you have listed a couple of more, the cuts are just part of what has been boiling for a long time.

But, I have to take issue with your claim that 'they don't have jobs, don't want jobs and never will have a job', as zappaDPJ pointed out in a previous post - those arrested have included.....

<snip>
Some of the rioters 'asking to get shot' are graphic designers, college students, youth workers, university graduates and even a man signed up to join the army.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554
<snip>.

There's plenty more that want jobs, but jobs are few & far between, with up to & beyond 300 applicants for a single job, we have record levels of youth unemployment and it's getting worst.

One thing that gets me, and I am not directing this at you in particular, leftie, this is a general thing, but over the last few days people have kept accusing me of making excuses for the rioters, simply because I've spent a lot of time looking beyond newspaper headlines to get a better understanding about why riots happen, especially as I had a gut feeling we would see this happen this year.

I am not making excuses, I do not support what has happened, I want it to be stopped, and I want it avoided in the future, but I can't see any real answer, sadly nor can the politicians hence their attempts to direct attention from the real problems.

Funny enough I have a good understanding of the social, economic and political circumstances that resulted in the Nazi Party gaining power in Germany, yet in discussions over the years about it no one had ever accused me of making excuses for what they did. Odd that.

Anyway, hope things settle down in Wolverhampton soon and I hope no harm comes to you, your family, friends, etc & property - I had family & friends that were equally emotive with what was going on around them yesterday night in London, thankfully it's calmer there tonight.
 
There's plenty more that want jobs, but jobs are few & far between, with up to & beyond 300 applicants for a single job, we have record levels of youth unemployment and it's getting worst.

This is complete crock.

The jobs are out there, the problem is these people will not do them. And when we have a benefits system that pays more than a minimum wage job people have no incentive to do these jobs.

Then the people complain immigrants take the available jobs. Why? Because they work harder and for less money.

I watched a show recently where a agency ceo said she could get every person on her books into a job the next day. But the people refuse to do those jobs and make excuses not to do them.

If you ask me a way of saving millions/billions is to do the following

a) Cut the benefits system so people are issued "credits" instead of money. Credits are valid at specific retailers, asda, sainsburies, aldi, lidl etc and have no monetary value for the person on those benefits. The government pays the retailers directly and items such as alcohol, tabaco, xboxes, ps3's etc are not purchaseable with credits. If people want disposable income they have to get a job to do it. The benefits system is a way to provide basic quality of life, not give someone an excuse not to get a job.

b) As above, find everyone claiming jobseekers, a guaranteed job placing. The person HAS to go to that job and hold it down for 12 months, or find a new job. If they don't take the job or leave the job they lose their benefits. If your placed in a job you have NO excuse not to do it.

c) Benefits removed to law breakers.

d) Tighten up immigration laws to those similar to australia. People wanting to come to england need to prove they have long term sustainable work available for them.

e) Deportation of any immigrants claiming benefits and that do not find a job within a given grace period or any found breaking the law.

f) Withdrawal from the EU. This deserves a whole thread to itself, but let England rule England. Not follow some laws made up in another country.

The problem with Britain is the benefits and welfare system is a joke. And lazy yobs exploit that. Make em work a hard days graft and take away the soft way of life they have. Let them reap what they sow.
 
London seems safe, others may not be. If this had escalated, and it may - then the situation is remarkably critical.

So: Dozens of shops ransacked and Miss Selfridge store set alight as masked gangs in Manchester wage battles with police
 
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