Ashamed to be British

[MilesDB]

However, the 5-10% of the population that are not in any way enfranchised by society are revolting. As the gap between the most and the least widens, as the police, politicians & big business (from the banks to the media) are shown to be incompetent, corrupt and downright oppressive towards this group, and as they seem to slip further and further away from being able to sustain themselves.

The prices for basics are increasing at rates of up to & over 20%, whilst wages, or benefits, are largely frozen - yet they see millionaires being allowed to get richer and richer, politicians on the fiddle, backers pocketing bonuses or pay-offs running into millions, having virtually bankrupted the country - they have little reason to stick to the rules, and it appears it takes just one final spark to 'allow' them to go for it.

Frankly, as someone that is fairly well off and comfortable, I've just about had enough of the mess this country is in - caused by the politicians & super-rich - and how the rest of us are having to pay to clear the mess-up.

Sounds like the United States. Democrats and Republicans have driven the country to the point of failure.

P.S. "As the gap between the most and the least widens.." I guess that's the British way of saying for the rich and the poor.

 

[Jason]

Now this is a common misconception about our side of the pond. You may see local police, riot police, SWAT and even, on rare occasions, elements of the state's National Guard dealing with domestic rioting, but you will never see it dealt with by active duty soldiers, sailors, airmen or Marines.

The Posse Comitatus Act prohibits members of the military from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property within the United States and prohibits Army and Air Force personnel and units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. The Navy and Marine Corps are explicitly prohibited by Department of Defense directives, under any circumstances.

We firmly believe that it is far too easy to have basic liberties taken from you when your own military can be used against you as a "police force".

While it is rare, it can and has happened, including in the LA riots of 1992. I was just a kid when the riots took place here, but thanks to a grandmother who kept newspapers from then and talking with an uncle who was one of those Marines deployed from Camp Pendleton, it did indeed happen.

On May 1, President Bush authorized the deployment of regular Army soldiers and Marines. On May 2, there were 10,465 Guardsmen, 2,023 Soldiers and 1,508 Marines in Los Angeles -- in addition to the 1,717 other law enforcement officers. Although, the rioting was over by the first night (the remaining days gave way to mostly looting) and they were never needed (though Guard units did do patrols and provide escorts).

 

[x4rl]

Shocking look at the guy is he nuts? out of control?!!!!!!!
http://bit.ly/py6H5Q

Deebs /agree wtc has happened over the last 10-20 years?

 

[Fred Sherman]

While it is rare, it can and has happened, including in the LA riots of 1992. I was just a kid when the riots took place here, but thanks to a grandmother who kept newspapers from then and talking with an uncle who was one of those Marines deployed from Camp Pendleton, it did indeed happen.

On May 1, President Bush authorized the deployment of regular Army soldiers and Marines. On May 2, there were 10,465 Guardsmen, 2,023 Soldiers and 1,508 Marines in Los Angeles -- in addition to the 1,717 other law enforcement officers. Although, the rioting was over by the first night (the remaining days gave way to mostly looting) and they were never needed (though Guard units did do patrols and provide escorts).

Understand I have a little more first hand knowledge of the situation that the media who reported on the event. I can assure you that federalized US troops were never used for law enforcement.

Read Chapter 4 of this paper from the Combat Studies Institute. When Joint Task Force–Los Angeles was formed under the command of Maj Gen Covault, by order of the president, the California Nation Guard became federalized under JTF-LA and ALL law enforcement operations came to a complete and determined end.

The chapter leaves out some additional issues we contended with on the ground. At one point, we considered permitting MP to exercise arrest authority as part of riot control, but that quickly fell apart. Military apprehension procedures are different from arrest procedures. The whole structure of informing of rights is different. Miranda rights do not apply to arresting military members. In fact, military members are never "arrested". Since we exist under constant state of government authority, military members are merely placed into apprehension and informed of their rights under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So that wouldn't work.

And keep in mind all subsequent review of the military role was scholarly. Because the military acted to remain sufficiently restrained by the PCA, judicial review was never required.

Has MGen Covault been less restrained, we might very well have judicial review of his actions to determine the bounds of the PCA. I, however, felt he commanded honorably and within the scope of the law as we understood it at the time, and still do today.

If there is any doubt about that, read the next chapter. JTF-6 involvement in the Branch Davidian nightmare just a few miles south of where I write this now was far less involved than JTF-LA would have been had they allowed the Cali NG to continue their pre-federalized law enforcement missions. JTF-6 was taken to task by Congress for simply coming so close to violation.

As with all things, much of this is political. I think its safe to assume that had JTF-LA overstepped authority, there would have been no political pressure to investigate based on success. Likewise JTF-6 is criticized for ever considering violating PCA because it was such a fubar and resulted in a witch hunt.

At any rate, it is best that the military never, ever be involved in the arrest and confinement of US civilians for any reason whatsoever. It is a slippery slope leading to tyranny. I trust no president of any party to have direct control over deciding what is criminal by executive order and then ordering enforcement by military means.

 

[TheLaw]

Oh well... I tried to inject some joy during a very trying two weeks...

The media confuses us in the US as to the reason for the extended violence. Is it just a band of hoods who connected with other hoods using social media, the bad element just wanteding to join the fray and reap the benefits of looting? I wonder whether there another force at work below the surface and agree with those of you who point to the widening gap that is dividing our society into two groups of people. Look what happened in peace loving Canada after the Canucks lost the Stanley Cup finals (hockey) in fantastic fashion. In NYC, violent crime rose a whopping 22% last year. Don't just blame the politicians - blame Wall Street as well and the fact that crimes were obviously committed but virtually no one not named Madoff was prosecuted. When the money stream dries up, the garden dies. I'm concerned about the next few months, not just here and in the UK but around the world.