Ashamed to be British

[Fred Sherman]

They have plenty of dogs, horses, tasers, and could be using rubber bullets for the first time ever on the mainland.

I don't think they have flash bangs & tear gas, nor trained in their use, certainly no mention has been made of them, again I think they have only ever been used in Northern Ireland, not on the mainland.

If its good enough to have been used on my kin, its good enough for the whole lot.

 

[DoctorWatsOn]

There are some noises that I've never heard before outside... Like and older train (steam) with their horn. Three short bursts every few seconds, it's moving away from the area. I think

You're in Southampton?

Historic steam trains often operate specialist trips along the coastal line, they go pass the bottom of my garden.

But they're most likely smaller copycat ones. I just hope that they grow

I assume you missed 'don't' out of that?

 

[DoctorWatsOn]

If its good enough to have been used on my kin, its good enough for the whole lot.

TBF, the troubles in Northern Ireland have always been far worst than anything on the mainland, until perhaps last night, although even then guns were not involved.

The Irish situation, as I am sure you know, dates back hundreds of years and is a hell of a lot more complex. Having Irish blood in me and having lived for many years in the Republic, I am just pleased that by and large the situation concerning the North is resolved and people are largely living in peace. It may be some time off still, but one day I believe both the Republic & the North will peacefully become one, but that needs the majority on both sides to agree.

 

[Lucas]

What is the current situation? Has it been stopping or still the same?

 

[Neal]

We haven't enough cells for the thousands involved, prisons are already over-crowded and every police cell in London had been taken up by this morning - they have been shipping them out to police cells in Essex, Kent, Surrey, Hampshire, etc. just to make room for tonight.

Well forget the cells, get them back on the street in pink clothing doing a national cleanup.

 

[DoctorWatsOn]

What is the current situation? Has it been stopping or still the same?

It came to an end in the early hours before daybreak, looks like it's gearing-up up again for tonight's 'fun & games'.

Nothing serious yet, the worst will come with nightfall.

 

[Shamil]

You're in Southampton?

Historic steam trains often operate specialist trips along the coastal line, they go pass the bottom of my garden.

I assume you missed 'don't' out of that?

I was in Southampton earlier today, but at the time posted, I was in Poole - my home.

I did miss out "don't".... please don't let it grow...

 

[Lucas]

It came to an end in the early hours before daybreak, looks like it's gearing-up up again for tonight's 'fun & games'.

Nothing serious yet, the worst will come with nightfall.

How is it that England can't control it? Why haven't they deployed the military? I mean, those guys are asking to get shot, they aren't doing it for any good reason, it's just plain and simple have fun and destroy, there is no protest of something real, nothing to backup what they are doing. And they shouldn't even be doing it that way.

 

[Neal]

How is it that England can't control it? Why haven't they deployed the military? I mean, those guys are asking to get shot, they aren't doing it for any good reason, it's just plain and simple have fun and destroy, there is no protest of something real, nothing to backup what they are doing. And they shouldn't even be doing it that way.

Probably the only solution if it carries on. My county has sent 70+ Police Officers down to London, and now it's started here.

 

[Neal]

Live blogs being posted here about Manchester: http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...blog---disturbances-in-manchester-and-salford

 

[zappaDPJ]

How is it that England can't control it? Why haven't they deployed the military? I mean, those guys are asking to get shot, they aren't doing it for any good reason, it's just plain and simple have fun and destroy, there is no protest of something real, nothing to backup what they are doing. And they shouldn't even be doing it that way.

We haven't been able to control it yet because of the shear scale of it and deploying the military is a very dangerous game which could have highly undesirable consequences in the long and short terms. Some of the rioters 'asking to get shot' are graphic designers, college students, youth workers, university graduates and even a man signed up to join the army.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554

I'm not condoning the actions of any of these people, far from it, I hope they all get caught, prosecuted and appropriately sentenced. Some of this has already hit very close to home but I still don't want to see our country's future blown away by a bullet. Contrary to popular belief a lot of the young people participating in this mayhem do not fall into comfortable stereotypical groups and that's a real worry.

I don't have an answer to it and I hope the extra police presence will have the desired effect, but given the true nature of the situation I fear the worst is yet to come.

 

[Floris]

These idiots should realize the 16k police enforcement is just a subtle hint to tell them the gov is willing to escalate to resolve the matter. Now it's 16k police overnight, tomorrow it's preparing the army for a resolve.

But they're idiots. So ..

 

[DoctorWatsOn]

How is it that England can't control it? Why haven't they deployed the military? I mean, those guys are asking to get shot, they aren't doing it for any good reason, it's just plain and simple have fun and destroy, there is no protest of something real, nothing to backup what they are doing. And they shouldn't even be doing it that way.

I think it will be controlled tonight, this has been bad, but at the end of the day no one has died from the actual rioting*, property can be repaired or replaced, the British way is try not to make it worst - that policy has served us well in the past.

* there was a shooting & death last night in Croydon, but it doesn't appear related to the rioting.

This is my fear about rubber bullets being used tonight, because the gangs can't return fire with rubber bullets, but they can use illegal firearms and then the armed police units would be deployed and you'll have running gun battles on the streets of London, which is alien to British culture.

As far as using the army, that creates all sorts of legal and political issues, we live in a democratic country where policing is by consent, we don't live under a military dictatorship, the police are trained for these situations, the army are not - they are trained to fight wars. We get on our high horses when other countries, recently Arabic ones, use the army on their people - it would be a disaster for us to do the same. It's likely to make the situation worst, you'll have problems with soldiers refusing to fight their own people, the markets would likely freak out - the stock market & currency could go into free all.

I've heard legally we can't even deploy the army without emergency legalisation and Parliament is on its summer recess, although it has been recalled for a day on Thursday for a debate, so who knows what will happen. This is why it's so important for the police to get a grip on it tonight, we just can't afford it to go any other way, there's no money left to deal with a meltdown in the economy & markets.

 

[DoctorWatsOn]

UPDATE TONIGHT:

GREATER LONDON conurbation - currently only reports of minor problems, in the various towns.

GREATER MANCHESTER conurbation - which looked liked it was going to kick-off last night, has tonight. In both the main Manchester city centre and Salford city centre.

WEST MIDLANDS conurbation - Birmingham city centre kicked off last night, no reports on trouble so far tonight there, but it has kicked off in both Wolverhampton city centre & the town of West Bromwich .

OTHER CITIES - expected major problems again in both Liverpool, Bristol and Northampton too. Minor problems could bubble up in the cities of Southampton, Brighton & Hove, Oxford and who knows where else.

This seems only a problem in England, nothing seems to be bubbling up in Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales.

 

[DoctorWatsOn]

Probably the only solution if it carries on. My county has sent 70+ Police Officers down to London, and now it's started here.

London has got both most of the Sussex riot police, plus our helicopter, and there's rumours now of possible trouble in Brighton & Hove city.

I hear Sussex police can call on the Hampshire police helicopter, but if it kicks off in Southampton city that's not going work!

* for overseas readers Sussex & Hampshire are county police forces, which both have *small* cities within their patches.

 

[DoctorWatsOn]

Watching it all live on TV is very surreal, it's like an extreme reality TV show.

 

[DoctorWatsOn]

Posted on another forum.

It's kicking off in the Kent county town of Maidstone!

Those bloody looters.....

* at least we can laugh.

 

[dutchbb]

It seems the London police is failing, first in arresting a man without killing him, now in controlling the aftermath. People reported whole streets being plundered with no police presence. Time for the army to step in, water cannons etc.

 

[Edrondol]

I'd like to thank Dr. Watson for bringing a new word into my lexicon. Conurbation. I had never heard this word before.

 

[DoctorWatsOn]

It seems the London police is failing, first in arresting a man without killing him, now in controlling the aftermath. People reported whole streets being plundered with no police presence. Time for the army to step in, water cannons etc.

I do wish people would read my posts!

It appears the army can't be moved in legally, without a vote in Parliament, which is on holiday, the police are trained to deal with riots and the army are not, soldiers are not employed for riot control and could make the whole situation worst, they are likely to refuse to fight their own people, if the army was called in it could result in a collapse in the stock-market and our currency.

Also, the majority of these rioters are teenagers, some as young as 11, some into their 20s, maybe a few older ones - we need to control kids, not kill them!

Our police do not have water cannons, the police have never used them on the mainland, they would need to get them from Northern Ireland, they are useful for dealing with and moving large groups of rioters, here we have small mobile groups popping up all over the place, many on bikes, as soon as a water cannon appeared the small crowd would melt away and pop-up elsewhere, pre-arranged on their mobile phones. Water cannon would be useless.

I hope you read this post!