Any sort of roadmap for Xenforo 2.3 ?

webbouk said:
So now we're getting nearer to the issue
Congratulations, you are the first person to go on my 'Ignore' list
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No, it's "not the issue" ffs. Talk about leaping to wrong conclusions! :rolleyes:

I'm on your ignore list? Great, then I won't have you making such snarky comments at me anymore. Yes, you're one of those unpleasant apologists I'm talking about. Good riddance. You won't see this comment, but others will and that matters.
 
FTL said:
You can't claim "For every negative person, I know at least 3 people who simply do not care about any delays", because again, you're just one small data point, similar to mine, so you can't generalise authoritatively. I find it a bit odd that paying customers aren't bothered by delays too, but hey. In general, not just the XF world, anti-comments, even if only by a small minority can somewhat reflect a general trend and it would be foolish to ignore it, hence why I started this line of conversation. Again, I'm not being authoritative about it, but one can still draw some sort of conclusion from it. And I've not been one of those to hold back my renewal, either. I renewed as soon as mine expired.

Yes, cloud is popular, because it takes a lot of the hassle out of managing business IT needs, as you say, hence AWS and Azure are now behmoths. It also turns the business into a rental model, as I said to @Starbucks a few posts back, making it a lot harder for customers to vote with their wallets if they're unhappy with the product and / or service.
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Negative voices are always the loudest, and most people generally do not care or are fine to wait. If you look at how many people have been negative, it is maybe a few dozen. Even my data set which is made up of resource providers I talk to off of XF, my old customers, and friends who hold licenses is a drop in the bucket. It is still a larger group than those have been negatively publicly, and that does not account for the vast majority who just do not pay attention to XenForo until it is time to do their maintenance updates (which from providing services is the majority).

Being a cloud user does not make it harder for people to vote with their wallets? They cancel service, ask for their backups, migrate to a new solution. It is about as simple as you could make it in comparison to a platform that purposely walls you in or puts hurdles in place when you wish to move.
 
lets not be too hard on sarcasm is what im saying tho ;P

its plenty good fun if not taken to heart

...you know....like how when if some will take things way to seriously and start getting all upsetted and like that...im not sure there is much worth all that, and most certainly not a forum release version...

remember the tumbleweeds? whew that was a lighter time wasnt it back then 🤡
 
Forsaken said:
Negative voices are always the loudest, and most people generally do not care or are fine to wait. If you look at how many people have been negative, it is maybe a few dozen. Even my data set which is made up of resource providers I talk to off of XF, my old customers, and friends who hold licenses is a drop in the bucket. It is still a larger group than those have been negatively publicly, and that does not account for the vast majority who just do not pay attention to XenForo until it is time to do their maintenance updates (which from providing services is the majority).

Being a cloud user does not make it harder for people to vote with their wallets? They cancel service, ask for their backups, migrate to a new solution. It is about as simple as you could make it in comparison to a platform that purposely walls you in or puts hurdles in place when you wish to move.
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"Negative voices are always the loudest, and most people generally do not care or are fine to wait."
Again, you're generalizing authoritively that most are happy to wait. Are they? How do you know? You can't do that, even if you're going by a wider set of customers, as you appear to be.

Yes, cloud users can do that, but I wonder how hassly it can all become? It's not a total roadblock though, fair point, but it's not hassle free, either. Whether more hassly than rolling your own forum where you have total control over old and new software, I don't have any info on that, but I can see the potential for difficulty there.

Finally, I see you haven't shown me the same good will I showed you and have pretended that I didn't say it (my first line). I explained it and hit Like as I didn't want you to feel bad at thinking I accused you unfairly, when I didn't. You know, it's good manners / etiquette to reciprocate these things and not ignore them.
 
The majority of revenue for most IT businesses tend to be business customers or cloud services (usually they go hand in hand) as others have stated in this thread. This is usually because businesses don't want to deal with their IT, but still retain some form of control over branding and feeling like they own something.

Discord forums, which I just saw as a popup when I opened the app for the first time today is not a danger to xenForo, any more than losing some hobby enthusiasts who can't afford or don't actually need a software as powerful as xenForo to run their communities.

It is for the same reason that Facebook groups and pages never "destroyed" or changed the IT sphere. More than ever businesses are building forums, knowledge bases and the such because the ability to find threaded conversations/information is something that discord, slack, Facebook and everything else in that category cannot do. Any attempts by said companies have always ended poorly because and I will repeat this for everyone in the back as well:

Forums are not real-time communication apps. They are long form discussion, discoverability (searchability) and identity.

A business who uses a discord forum or a Facebook group, won't be able to remove the "Discord" or "Facebook" branding from said platforms, nor will they be able to hide the fact that users can find competing or alternative servers, groups, etc., and it won't ever feel like theirs.

Forums are not dead, what is dead is the era of people who want to make a quick buck because they saw the success of forums in the early 2000s and want to replicate that get rich method.


Most of xenForo's customers are definitely not here being vocal or posting on these forums, only the people who are negative, loud, and have some strong opinion about software are present, like this thread and the "Are forums dead" thread. I also see people bringing up TAZ and negative voices on there as well. I assure you TAZ, and any "admin" like community does not matter. Their opinion does not matter, the opinion of such sites has
not mattered since the vBulletin 3 days.

I suggest people focus on their sites, their users and the communities they are trying to build and if you are frustrated with the way xenForo runs their business, then vote with your wallet and stop renewing. It's not like some of us in the thread haven't been frustrated at some point or another, myself included.

The big thing here for myself as a customer is to make sure that xenForo does not start splitting off features or announcing cloud-only features, like other competitor software has.
 
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FTL said:
"Negative voices are always the loudest, and most people generally do not care or are fine to wait."
Again, you're generalizing authoritively that most are happy to wait. Are they? How do you know? You can't do that, even if you're going by a wider set of customers, as you appear to be.

Yes, cloud users can do that, but I wonder how hassly it can all become? It's not a total roadblock though, fair point, but it's not hassle free, either. Whether more hassly than rolling your own forum where you have total control over old and new software, I don't have any info on that, but I can see the potential for difficulty there.

Finally, I see you haven't shown me the same good will I showed you and have pretended that I didn't say it (my first line). I explained it and hit Like as I didn't want you to feel bad at thinking I accused you unfairly, when I didn't. You know, it's good manners / etiquette to reciprocate these things and not ignore them.
Click to expand...
I am specifically saying don't care over being happy; you are assuming that people are unhappy about updates from a small number of people (literally a few dozen at most) while I am arguing that because there are not more people that it is more likely people do not care. I am using anecdotal evidence to point out how significantly minor the people complaining are, not as proof of positivity. Also, anyone who has worked in an IT industry or service industry can attest that negative voices are louder than neutral or positive ones.

Migration is migration; the only difference is that you must request a cancellation and backup to move away rather than making it yourself. There is no sinister purpose and XF has been transparent about the process...? You can look it up rather than acting as if it is some sinister purpose.

For one, your "apologist" statement was in direct reply to my quote, and secondly your "good will" was less an apology and more justification as to why you are a victim. If you had made a sincere apology and not tried to do something for optics, I may have accepted it, but even then, it is up to me to accept your "good will", and whether to consider it worth a response. The fact that you feel so strongly that you bring it up when you did not get the response you want shows it was not sincere.

🤷‍♂️ not going to respond to you any longer as it's just not worth dealing with someone who wants to play the victim at every turn.
 
FTL said:
And as far as those facts are concerned, yes I don't claim to have a definitive dataset to draw from. As I've already said, from my observations people don't look happy.
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I think it is generally accepted that people who have complaints will make comments, those that are happy with things as they are don’t make comments. The only way to get accurate idea is to canvas people for opinions.
FTL said:
I find it a bit odd that paying customers aren't bothered by delays too,
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Not updating isn’t really a delay though. The thread is asking if there is a roadmap. There isn’t. It would only be a delay if they gave a roadmap and didn’t stick to its schedule.
 
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Ivancas said:
So XenForo does never has spam?
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That's not what I meant.

Forum Bots = good functionality that can make life easier for admins and members in the same way that AI chat bots can be helpful. Its an example of modern functionality. Although Wikipedia/Wikimedia has been using bots to manage and optimize content for decades.
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While technically not a bot, IFTTT is a similar approach that does X if Y and Z happens. i.e. post a message on the chit-chat forum, if @Kier posts to his twitter that mentions 'Barefoot'.
ifttt.com

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FTL said:
People usually talk down to people in that manner when they think they're better than them. Having a company do that to their paying customers is obnoxious and I've had them do it to me on plenty of occasions.

Heck, they censored me a while back to maintain their pro customer narrative when I wasn't getting the support they claim to give and then I got a whole bunch of XF apologists piling onto me for pointing this out. Such ugly behaviour. I'm not gonna get into it now and reopen the whole thing, just trust me on this. Wouldn't surprise me if this post got censored too.
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There are still a lot of the old vbulletin gang that did the exact same thing over there. Attack and derail was MOI.
 
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Alpha1 said:
That's not what I meant.

Forum Bots = good functionality that can make life easier for admins and members in the same way that AI chat bots can be helpful. Its an example of modern functionality. Although Wikipedia/Wikimedia has been using bots to manage and optimize content for decades.
discord.bots.gg

Discord Bots

The original Discord bot list, find the right bot for your server today.
discord.bots.gg discord.bots.gg
discords.com

Discord Bots | The #1 Discord Bot List

Find Discord Bots to Enhance Your Discord Server. Search through thousands of Discord Bots using the most Advanced Index.
discords.com discords.com
top.gg

Moderation Discord Bots | The #1 Discord Bot List

Discover Moderation Discord bots on the biggest Discord Bot list on the planet.
top.gg top.gg
While technically not a bot, IFTTT is a similar approach that does X if Y and Z happens. i.e. post a message on the chit-chat forum, if @Kier posts to his twitter that mentions 'Barefoot'.
ifttt.com

Discord Integrations - Connect Your Apps with IFTTT

Integrate Discord with over 1,000 of your favorite apps & devices to unlock powerful automations on IFTTT. Get started today!
ifttt.com ifttt.com
Click to expand...
Someone was working on a bot for XF1.5, but it got abandoned.

I've thought about funding an add-on to be made to automate some things a bit more, but generally it makes more sense to just pay for individual features than a full bot/automation system.
 
I think XF can take a page out of the Apple playbook here, make incremental changes, choose a couple from the features request area and give it a major version and bill it as the latest and greatest thing since sliced bread. Make people feel like last year's version is for chumps and put a bunch of effort into marketing.

Works for the iPhone and Mac.
 
TheGroove said:
I think XF can take a page out of the Apple playbook here, make incremental changes, choose a couple from the features request area and give it a major version and bill it as the latest and greatest thing since sliced bread. Make people feel like last year's version is for chumps and put a bunch of effort into marketing.

Works for the iPhone and Mac.
Click to expand...
The continuous update cycle would probably work well for the cloud customers. Not sure all self-hosted would want a constant stream of feature updates, though I imagine what you propose would translate to just a couple a year. And if those updates require changes to styling or add-ons, a continuous update cycle could be a headache for devs. Still, it's where a lot of software is headed, especially in the cloud world.

So in short, I wouldn't be upset if they went this route, but the devil would be in the details of how they did it. And I have always rather liked the fact that they follow a traditional development cycle rather than the higher pressure continuous update cycle we see so much today. I am fairly certain that software developed with that kind of short turnaround is more bug and vulnerability-prone.
 
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