American NSA Out Of Control

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I really don't care. There was a brilliant write up by a netsec authority a while back on how even a good, complex password encrypted with AES 256 would take the NSA eons with their super computers to decrypt. I'm always wary of these types of reports because history has shown that these incidences do occur and are usually full of lies by the source claiming it's true.
 
I really don't care. There was a brilliant write up by a netsec authority a while back on how even a good, complex password encrypted with AES 256 would take the NSA eons with their super computers to decrypt. I'm always wary of these types of reports because history has shown that these incidences do occur and are usually full of lies by the source claiming it's true.

Considering the Obama administration has pretty much admitted it's true... I think you need to look into it a bit further and consider the facts. You're in denial.
 
Considering the Obama administration has pretty much admitted it's true... I think you need to look into it a bit further and consider the facts. You're in denial.

I really don't care if it's true or not. I have nothing to hide and really don't care what the government sees in my correspondence. I rarely do personal emails, I don't text more than a few times a year, most of my calls are business related, I don't Skype or any of the other popular trends right now.
 
I really don't care if it's true or not. I have nothing to hide and really don't care what the government sees in my correspondence. I rarely do personal emails, I don't text more than a few times a year, most of my calls are business related, I don't Skype or any of the other popular trends right now.

So you're okay with the privacy invasions because it doesn't affect you? Wow... just... wow. There lay the greatest problem with our country. Americans who couldn't give a damn if their rights are violated so as long as they have their Starbucks coffee.

Also I read this one Reddit. Its a good read.

I live in a country generally assumed to be a dictatorship. One of the Arab spring countries. I have lived through curfews and have seen the outcomes of the sort of surveillance now being revealed in the US. People here talking about curfews aren't realizing what that actually FEELS like. It isn't about having to go inside, and the practicality of that. It's about creating the feeling that everyone, everything is watching. A few points:

1) the purpose of this surveillance from the governments point of view is to control enemies of the state. Not terrorists. People who are coalescing around ideas that would destabilize the status quo. These could be religious ideas. These could be groups like anon who are too good with tech for the governments liking. It makes it very easy to know who these people are. It also makes it very simple to control these people.

Lets say you are a college student and you get in with some people who want to stop farming practices that hurt animals. So you make a plan and go to protest these practices. You get there, and wow, the protest is huge. You never expected this, you were just goofing off. Well now everyone who was there is suspect. Even though you technically had the right to protest, you're now considered a dangerous person.

With this tech in place, the government doesn't have to put you in jail. They can do something more sinister. They can just email you a sexy picture you took with a girlfriend. Or they can email you a note saying that they can prove your dad is cheating on his taxes. Or they can threaten to get your dad fired. All you have to do, the email says, is help them catch your friends in the group. You have to report back every week, or you dad might lose his job. So you do. You turn in your friends and even though they try to keep meetings off grid, you're reporting on them to protect your dad.

2) Let's say number one goes on. The country is a weird place now. Really weird. Pretty soon, a movement springs up like occupy, except its bigger this time. People are really serious, and they are saying they want a government without this power. I guess people are realizing that it is a serious deal. You see on the news that tear gas was fired. Your friend calls you, frantic. They're shooting people. Oh my god. you never signed up for this. You say, **** it. My dad might lose his job but I won't be responsible for anyone dying. That's going too far. You refuse to report anymore. You just stop going to meetings. You stay at home, and try not to watch the news. Three days later, police come to your door and arrest you. They confiscate your computer and phones, and they beat you up a bit. No one can help you so they all just sit quietly. They know if they say anything they're next. This happened in the country I live in. It is not a joke.

3) Its hard to say how long you were in there. What you saw was horrible. Most of the time, you only heard screams. People begging to be killed. Noises you've never heard before. You, you were lucky. You got kicked every day when they threw your moldy food at you, but no one shocked you. No one used sexual violence on you, at least that you remember. There were some times they gave you pills, and you can't say for sure what happened then. To be honest, sometimes the pills were the best part of your day, because at least then you didn't feel anything. You have scars on you from the way you were treated. You learn in prison that torture is now common. But everyone who uploads videos or pictures of this torture is labeled a leaker. Its considered a threat to national security. Pretty soon, a cut you got on your leg is looking really bad. You think it's infected. There were no doctors in prison, and it was so overcrowded, who knows what got in the cut. You go to the doctor, but he refuses to see you. He knows if he does the government can see the records that he treated you. Even you calling his office prompts a visit from the local police.

You decide to go home and see your parents. Maybe they can help. This leg is getting really bad. You get to their house. They aren't home. You can't reach them no matter how hard you try. A neighbor pulls you aside, and he quickly tells you they were arrested three weeks ago and haven't been seen since. You vaguely remember mentioning to them on the phone you were going to that protest. Even your little brother isn't there.

4) Is this even really happening? You look at the news. Sports scores. Celebrity news. It's like nothing is wrong. What the hell is going on? A stranger smirks at you reading the paper. You lose it. You shout at him "**** you dude what are you laughing at can't you see I've got a ****ing wound on my leg?"

"Sorry," he says. "I just didn't know anyone read the news anymore." There haven't been any real journalists for months. They're all in jail.

Everyone walking around is scared. They can't talk to anyone else because they don't know who is reporting for the government. Hell, at one time YOU were reporting for the government. Maybe they just want their kid to get through school. Maybe they want to keep their job. Maybe they're sick and want to be able to visit the doctor. It's always a simple reason. Good people always do bad things for simple reasons.

You want to protest. You want your family back. You need help for your leg. This is way beyond anything you ever wanted. It started because you just wanted to see fair treatment in farms. Now you're basically considered a terrorist, and everyone around you might be reporting on you. You definitely can't use a phone or email. You can't get a job. You can't even trust people face to face anymore. On every corner, there are people with guns. They are as scared as you are. They just don't want to lose their jobs. They don't want to be labeled as traitors.

This all happened in the country where I live.

You want to know why revolutions happen? Because little by little by little things get worse and worse. But this thing that is happening now is big. This is the key ingredient. This allows them to know everything they need to know to accomplish the above. The fact that they are doing it is proof that they are the sort of people who might use it in the way I described. In the country I live in, they also claimed it was for the safety of the people. Same in Soviet Russia. Same in East Germany. In fact, that is always the excuse that is used to surveil everyone. But it has never ONCE proven to be the reality.

Maybe Obama won't do it. Maybe the next guy won't, or the one after him. Maybe this story isn't about you. Maybe it happens 10 or 20 years from now, when a big war is happening, or after another big attack. Maybe it's about your daughter or your son. We just don't know yet. But what we do know is that right now, in this moment we have a choice. Are we okay with this, or not? Do we want this power to exist, or not?

You know for me, the reason I'm upset is that I grew up in school saying the pledge of allegiance. I was taught that the United States meant "liberty and justice for all." You get older, you learn that in this country we define that phrase based on the constitution. That's what tells us what liberty is and what justice is. Well, the government just violated that ideal. So if they aren't standing for liberty and justice anymore, what are they standing for? Safety?

Ask yourself a question. In the story I told above, does anyone sound safe?

I didn't make anything up. These things happened to people I know. We used to think it couldn't happen in America. But guess what? It's starting to happen.

I actually get really upset when people say "I don't have anything to hide. Let them read everything." People saying that have no idea what they are bringing down on their own heads. They are naive, and we need to listen to people in other countries who are clearly telling us that this is a horrible horrible sign and it is time to stand up and say no.
 
There's no such thing as privacy. People need to understand it simply doesn't exist in this day and age.

[sarcasm]
You're starting to sound like an extremist. Maybe someone should warn the government about you before you go further into your struggles getting the message out. They might hush you. Stay safe, trooper.
[/sarcasm]
 
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There's no such thing as privacy. People need to understand it simply doesn't exist in this day and age.

[sarcasm]
You're starting to sound like an extremist. Maybe someone should warn the government about you before you go further into your struggles getting the message out. They might hush you. Stay safe, trooper.
[/sarcasm]

So the 4th Amendment is dead? Is that what you're saying? I'm sorry but I refuse to accept that. I wouldn't even want to venture a guess at what you think of our 2nd Amendment. :confused:

My avatar conveys my opinion of what you're saying thus far.
 
So the 4th Amendment is dead? Is that what you're saying? I'm sorry but I refuse to accept that. I wouldn't even want to venture a guess at what you think of our 2nd Amendment. :confused:

My avatar conveys my opinion of what you're saying thus far.

Funny, but the same people who often worry about these amendments seemed OK when the Supremes and others said it's ok for public schools to extract bodily fluids from kids and test them for substances...if the kids wanted to join the chess club!

Most Americans are OK with having the min. wage worker drug tested - I know I felt confident in Petsmart knowing that my dogfood would be chosen without the fog of pot smoking.
:)

Let's be clear on the security stuff. The American People, with small exception (folks like me) ASKED FOR IT. They chose security over liberty with their votes, their voices and their fears. Over the period 2002-2009, a vast security state along with trillions in financing was set in place...the Will of the People.

NOW, all of a sudden, some are surprised. Really, that's fantastic. It's truly amazing that 85-95% of Americans were cheering this stuff on and now the same people are all over the internet acting as if they value liberty over security. What happened to the soccer moms who need protection? To "getting them over there", so they can't come here?

Did y'all really not see what I saw in the last decade?

Deathbed conversions seem to be in vogue.
 
Funny, but the same people who often worry about these amendments seemed OK when the Supremes and others said it's ok for public schools to extract bodily fluids from kids and test them for substances...if the kids wanted to join the chess club!

Most Americans are OK with having the min. wage worker drug tested - I know I felt confident in Petsmart knowing that my dogfood would be chosen without the fog of pot smoking.
:)

Let's be clear on the security stuff. The American People, with small exception (folks like me) ASKED FOR IT. They chose security over liberty with their votes, their voices and their fears. Over the period 2002-2009, a vast security state along with trillions in financing was set in place...the Will of the People.

NOW, all of a sudden, some are surprised. Really, that's fantastic. It's truly amazing that 85-95% of Americans were cheering this stuff on and now the same people are all over the internet acting as if they value liberty over security. What happened to the soccer moms who need protection? To "getting them over there", so they can't come here?

Did y'all really not see what I saw in the last decade?

Deathbed conversions seem to be in vogue.

The majority of people don't vote. Those who do vote don't research the issues or the politician themselves. Most people vote republican or democratic simple due to party lines. They trust what the media tells them. Unfortunately these are the idiots controlling our country. Maybe they just need a wake up call. Maybe this is it.

I know I am always up in arms over our Government. When the Patriot Act was renewed I called, emailed, and wrote my senator and congressman. I objected to it and I still do. It sickens me how ignorant the average American has become.
 
There lay the greatest problem with our country. Americans who couldn't give a damn if their rights are violated so as long as they have their Starbucks coffee.

Again, so to be clear, are you referring to the soccer moms, the neo-cons and the budget busting security state built up by the right and those they scared in the period 2002-2006+???

Or are you referring to some fantasy enemy you conjured up?

Were you somewhere else when all this stuff was going down? Do you remember the "support the troops no matter what" cries when the trillions were being spent on security and wars of choice?

Since you appear so educated on historical matters, I am certain you believe in the quote:
"No democracy can fight a 7 years war" - simply meaning that once you do that, you are not a free country any longer.

So let's discuss this matter. Were you in DC protesting against the wars from 2002 on? Or were you a silent or otherwise backer of the neo-cons?

I ask that question with all due respect - but it's important to know where you are coming from. I was 100% against all this stuff from day one.....I value liberty over security, and would be fine with a couple bombings a year (small time) as well as a plane falling from the sky here and there (as long as it's statistically low).

How about you? Which do you want?

In any case, it's silly for you to act like YOU are the Patriot while others who may value security are not. Every person falls differently on a large scale on these matters. But, please, enunciate exactly where you stand. Are you OK with 10 planes a year and 100 small bombings? 5 planes and 20 boston-type bombings?

State an intelligent case and a debate can be had. But acting like you are ready to drop in the plane or be a victim in a bombing due to your purity seems a bit over the top.
 
The majority of people don't vote. Those who do vote don't research the issues or the politician themselves. Most people vote republican or democratic simple due to party lines. They trust what the media tells them. Unfortunately these are the idiots controlling our country. Maybe they just need a wake up call. Maybe this is it.

I know I am always up in arms over our Government. When the Patriot Act was renewed I called, emailed, and wrote my senator and congressman. I objected to it and I still do. It sickens me how ignorant the average American has become.

Again, state your views on the wars from the start....on the Patriot Act and other hundreds of security moves when they were created and started....NOT 5 years later.

Tell us how you protested over the wars. Surely you were in DC or supported Cindy Sheehan? I can tell you that I financed the mother of a fallen soldier who lived full time to DC and harassed Congress Critters DAILY inside their office building.

Opinions are like...well, you know. Everyone has one. They all stink. The question is one of actions and support....what you have done actively to put your ideals into practice.

I can tell you this. When the war drums were beating I could not find a SINGLE person who agreed with me. Now it seems everyone has changed their tune. Too late.
 
Considering the Obama administration has pretty much admitted it's true... I think you need to look into it a bit further and consider the facts. You're in denial.

Please - refer me to the story where it's admitted that the NSA does anything which is illegal under the Constitution as defined by the three branches of government.

Civil society requires that we don't each act like Thoreau in Walden Woods. Even he could only stay there part of a year.....

Personally, I am more concerned (although not much, because I really don't care much) about corporations having my data than the government. I assume from day one the gubment has it.

Let's enter another discussion about meta-data. Is it OK for the gubment (police, fire, ss, state, etc.) to have your house address? Is it an invasion of privacy for the world to know what my house is worth and what I pay in property taxes? Is it OK that folks know, from basic zip and other data, how much I likely am worth?

Is it OK for Citi to know how much I spend on things each month? How about paypal?

Are employee drug tests ok with you? How about testing for intelligence, medical conditions, etc? These are definitely "searches" of you or your kids.
 
Again, so to be clear, are you referring to the soccer moms, the neo-cons and the budget busting security state built up by the right and those they scared in the period 2002-2006+???

Or are you referring to some fantasy enemy you conjured up?

Were you somewhere else when all this stuff was going down? Do you remember the "support the troops no matter what" cries when the trillions were being spent on security and wars of choice?

Since you appear so educated on historical matters, I am certain you believe in the quote:
"No democracy can fight a 7 years war" - simply meaning that once you do that, you are not a free country any longer.

So let's discuss this matter. Were you in DC protesting against the wars from 2002 on? Or were you a silent or otherwise backer of the neo-cons?

I ask that question with all due respect - but it's important to know where you are coming from. I was 100% against all this stuff from day one.....I value liberty over security, and would be fine with a couple bombings a year (small time) as well as a plane falling from the sky here and there (as long as it's statistically low).

How about you? Which do you want?

In any case, it's silly for you to act like YOU are the Patriot while others who may value security are not. Every person falls differently on a large scale on these matters. But, please, enunciate exactly where you stand. Are you OK with 10 planes a year and 100 small bombings? 5 planes and 20 boston-type bombings?

State an intelligent case and a debate can be had. But acting like you are ready to drop in the plane or be a victim in a bombing due to your purity seems a bit over the top.
Well I must admit I like you already. I wrote a post a while back in this thread. It was pretty long and you may have missed it but in it I said that I would be okay with another 9/11 attack or Boston bombing as freedom itself isn't free and sometimes a price must be paid for that freedom.

I really hate to say it that way but if an occasional act of terrorism is the cost of my freedom then I am okay with that. I would rather have my privacy, liberty, and freedom - founding ideals behind our country - than sacrifice those in the name of security. Otherwise in my opinion the terrorists have achieved what no army has ever been able to do... the destruction of the American way of life.

When 9/11 occurred I was still in High School. I wasn't old enough to vote, didn't follow politics much at the time, and honestly I didn't care. When Bush claimed Iraq as the origin of the attack like most Americans I strongly advocated military action. As I learned more through-out the years about the inner workings of the Government, politicians overall, and the wars in general I started forming a true position of my own.

I don't know into which group you could classify me. I'm a hardliner when it comes to protecting the Constitution. I weigh everything against it and if I feel it violates the constitution then I voice my objection by calling, emailing, and writing my political representatives. I speak to my social crowd and try to get them involved. I urge them to do the same.

I went to the Occupy protests here in Las Vegas as I agreed with the principle behind them. I vote in every election I can from simple local elections to the national ones. I am politically active in my local community.

Edit: Now I may sound bad by saying this but since you're interested in my official position I figured I'd share this. Those who are willing to sacrifice their freedom for a false sense of security make me physically ill. They're the true danger to our society and way of life in my opinion. A cancer if you will. I feel they're the biggest threat America has ever faced.
 
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Bro, do you even Chrome? :LOL:

Of course not, it spies on you!

Around this time someone on TheVerge would call you a paid shill and attack you for being a Google fanboy!

No doubt, ha.

Though, my direct deposit does say Google, Inc., so... things that you make you go hmm. The funny thing about the claims though, is anyone can easily monitor and analyze an Android app's network traffic, telephony usage, etc.
 
As a multiple gun and rifle owner, I love the 2nd amendment. Just cleaned one my Sigs today. :)

I just purchased a new Springfield M1A Scout today along with 6 20rd magazines and 1000rds of 7.62 for it. Cleaned out my Beretta 92FS earlier today as well. Still annoying that my 870P is still at Wilson Combat as I want to take it out shooting. :mad:
 
Yet everyone is upset when a website gets hacked, I wonder why. ;)

Red herring. You're conflating the issue.

If someone "hacked" my Amazon.com account, for example, of course I'd be upset. That doesn't change the fundamental way in which the Internet works, though (ie., a bunch of computers, most of which you do not own or have any control over, sharing information between each other). Nothing you do online is private, nor was that a primary design decision at the time. You're taking a risk anytime you share something online, do online banking, etc. and it seems that's something people fail to grasp.

This is very much an issue worth discussing, but using logical fallacies to support your argument isn't doing anyone any favors.
 
I don't know. I wake up, I go to work, come home, hug the wife and kids, play with websites. And most of all, I never talk to terrorists on the phone. I'm pretty sure I don't need to fear the NSA. They use algorithms to compare phone numbers and conversations length. I use algorithms to detect spammers. *shrugs*
 
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