American NSA Out Of Control

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Sador you'd make better points if most of your arguments weren't strawmen. You cannot force a correlation between government accessing private information and a hacker maliciously exploiting a server and releasing your data.
Where did I say I was? I was forcing correlation between "just don't share private information on the internet" and a hacker accessing information you had not willingly shared. It had somewhat little to do with the government collecting information or not.

Nor can you say that someone who is not shocked that the government has been accessing such data for long periods of time is open to them having all of your data so much then be willing to give out such data to someone they do not know on the Internet. Using such arguments just undermines the situation.
Again, I agree. However, someone who is saying "well just not share info you don't want others to know" is a stupid argument, because such data gets shared for you. Bank data is online, medical info might be online in some countries. Not because you shared it, most likely. I was just trying to point out that that the argument "just don't share it" is flawed, that's all.

This has been going on for years before 9/11. Microsoft and Yahoo were giving out email, chat logs and other information to legal entities for years. Google requires much more pressure to give out information, and I find it unlikely that there is a backdoor for their services though there might possibly be a flagging system for things such as child porn, terrorism and other such activity.
I know.

Phone companies, ISP's, data centers and bandwidth providers have always been giving information to the government. Before it was masked in such ways to make it seem as if it were a irregular request now it is just more blatant.
I know.

Should you be worried? Yes, however there isn't much you can do other than to raise awareness and push for it to end and being pro-active about protecting your rights rather than just complaining on the Internet. This does not mean using FUD like so many here seem to do as that will help no one, solve nothing and only undermine the truth of the situation.
And what else are we doing than raising awareness by discussing it? However, some people replied by starting about "tin foil heads" and someone like Sheldon was just trying to humor those people. I was merely pointing out that "information on the internet" goes a little beyond what you post on a forum, something not quite everyone seems to grasp.

Either way, thank you for your reply.
 
Where did I say I was? I was forcing correlation between "just don't share private information on the internet" and a hacker accessing information you had not willingly shared. It had somewhat little to do with the government collecting information or not.

Again, I agree. However, someone who is saying "well just not share info you don't want others to know" is a stupid argument, because such data gets shared for you. Bank data is online, medical info might be online in some countries. Not because you shared it, most likely. I was just trying to point out that that the argument "just don't share it" is flawed, that's all.

I know.

I know.

And what else are we doing than raising awareness by discussing it? However, some people replied by starting about "tin foil heads" and someone like Sheldon was just trying to humor those people. I was merely pointing out that "information on the internet" goes a little beyond what you post on a forum, something not quite everyone seems to grasp.

Either way, thank you for your reply.

Yes, comparing the two does nothing but undermine the point because they're completely different.

It isn't a stupid argument, it is only common sense and most people do not have it. You are not forced to share any information, you can always opt out of doing so. The problem is you are than living without convenience and that means more to people than having your information shared. Even if you do not share your information it is out there if someone else shares it like your mother, father, siblings or friends.

I never said not to discuss it, I said not to use FUD in the discussions as it does nothing for the discussion at hand and only makes you seem dishonest or paranoid.
 
If you check the latest updates of Google chrome, Google Now and various other Google products, you can see that when installing those apps you agree to give the apps access to your microphone and video 24/7. The above article has already become a reality.

As someone who works with the Chrome team, I'll at least address this point.

Those updates had to do with enabling WebRTC support, which is designed to expose your camera and mic to the browser, so that web apps can implement things like video-conferencing. If a site wants to actually use your camera and mic, an info-bar will appear at the top of the page asking you to "allow" or "deny". It's not to spy on you.
 
As someone who works with the Chrome team, I'll at least address this point.

Those updates had to do with enabling WebRTC support, which is designed to expose your camera and mic to the browser, so that web apps can implement things like video-conferencing. If a site wants to actually use your camera and mic, an info-bar will appear at the top of the page asking you to "allow" or "deny". It's not to spy on you.

Like you know anything!

/sarcasm
 
blog.webp

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/
 
I wanted to articulate my opinion on this as I have not done so yet and as there have been some very good replies within this thread. I’m going to cover the phone monitoring and internet monitoring topics separately. We’ll start with something I feel is very important to the discussion. Let’s take a moment and read the 4th Amendment of the United States Constitution:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

Now let’s talk about the Verizon court order and the collection of all phone related “meta-data” across the United States. Now according to various publications and our dear leader himself the NSA is not collecting the content of our phone calls, content of our text massages, or pictures we send across a cellular network. I am skeptical about this claim but let’s take the regime at face value on it.

They are however collecting a massive amount of meta-data like IMEI numbers, called numbers, calls received, length of the calls, call locations, and serial number of the device used. The list goes on from there. Now I hear people saying that the collection of such “meta-data” does not violate the 4th Amendment. I strongly disagree with these people. The “meta-data” can be used to determine your most frequent locations, the timeframes of which you’re most active, who you associate with, and much more.

The mass collection of this personal and private data is of great concern to me. Is this not an unreasonable search? Where is the probable cause? In my opinion they should not be able to acquire this information without first appearing before a Judge and showing probable cause to obtain my information. Indeed they appeared before a secret court (beyond the scrutiny of the American people – a shadow court) and justified their actions (using classified rationale) and therefore we have zero way to contest it.

Are you going to sit here and tell me that they’ve met the “probable cause” aspect under our Constitution and that collecting this information on every single American citizen (and most likely millions of foreign citizens as well) is compatible with the 4th Amendment? I personally have troubles believing that and I know many other people do as well.

Now let’s talk about something more significant than the NSA phone monitoring scandal. Let us discuss Internet privacy & monitoring. This is the revelation that I find to be most troubling. Now I’ll admit that nothing you put on the Internet should be considered private. However there are situations that I believe a reasonable expectation of privacy does exist. Did your jaws hit the floor just yet?

Our banking records are online now. Our healthcare records are online now. Our employment information, tax records, utility bills, and so much more is tied into the grid. It is nigh impossible to disconnect from the grid today. I have a reasonable expectation of privacy when it comes to this information. I do not expect it to be accessed by a 3rd party and believe this information is protected by my 4th Amendment.

Do I expect content I post to Facebook to remain private? Absolutely not. That’s social media and is inherently public by nature. Facebook does not have the strongest track record when it comes to privacy anyway. I do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy when related to content when I post content on the Facebook. I do have a reasonable expectation of privacy in my email however as this is meant to be a private communication medium. Did you know my Insurance provider sent me confidential information through email? Did you know my tax agent sent me confidential information through email? Why should the Government be able to acquire this information for long term storage in some database without proving probable cause before a court? Why can I not contest their need for this information in front of a Judge? The same goes for private calls made through Skype. Skype is “encrypted”. Why should the content of my Skype messages and the audio/visual content of these calls not be protected under the 4th Amendment? We’re talking about intimate moments in our private lives here. I believe I have a reasonable expectation of privacy and that a warrant should be required to review and collect this information. Period.

In my opinion the revelations of the previous two days is extremely serious and warrants the rage of the American people. I hope to see officials flogged publicly for this. Ideally I’d like to see the entire NSA audited, gutted, and reworked through and through. Furthermore I’d like to see several Congressional resignations, a Presidential impeachment, and the repeal of the Patriot Act. Will that happen? Unfortunately it probably won’t and I fear the American people are too complacent to react how they should. It’s all about the Starbucks coffee, the episode of Game of Thrones, and Sunday Night Football.

I spent the morning as an activist today. I called Harry Reid. I emailed Harry Reid. I even sat down and wrote a handwritten letter to Harry Reid. I did the same for the Congressman of my district. I did the same for my Governor. I signed petitions sponsored by the ACLU, EFF, and FSF. I am spreading the word and fighting to defend my liberties and I wish more people would do the same. Look I know I am going to take flack for this next comment but while we’re being honest I would rather witness another event like September 11th occur than sacrifice any of my Constitutional liberties. Freedom is not free and occasionally the cost of that freedom is pretty steep. I am not willing to sacrifice liberty in the name of security otherwise I’ll lose both in the end.

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Ninja Edit: Now that is a strong denial. Carefully worded however.
 
Like you know anything!

/sarcasm

Of course I don't :p

Slightly off topic, and directed more to the post I quoted, but...

The big picture surrounding permissions in Android is that they can be distributed between different manifests (apk's), which can communicate between each other via IPC (eg., Intents, Binder, ...). Each apk can provide certain functions with the permission(s) it has been granted. Individuals are then free to install a component of the app or not, which comes down to accepting certain permissions and getting the features the permissions make possible. Chrome could defer to the camera app, for example, via an Intent to allow photo uploads; however, this isn't a suitable workflow for things such as in-page video conferencing using JavaScript, hence WebRTC support.
 
As someone who works with the Chrome team, I'll at least address this point.

Those updates had to do with enabling WebRTC support, which is designed to expose your camera and mic to the browser, so that web apps can implement things like video-conferencing. If a site wants to actually use your camera and mic, an info-bar will appear at the top of the page asking you to "allow" or "deny". It's not to spy on you.

Bro, do you even Chrome? :LOL:
 
Of course I don't :p

Slightly off topic, and directed more to the post I quoted, but...

The big picture surrounding permissions in Android is that they can be distributed between different manifests (apk's), which can communicate between each other via IPC (eg., Intents, Binder, ...). Each apk can provide certain functions with the permission(s) it has been granted. Individuals are then free to install a component of the app or not, which comes down to accepting certain permissions and getting the features the permissions make possible. Chrome could defer to the camera app, for example, via an Intent to allow photo uploads; however, this isn't a suitable workflow for things such as in-page video conferencing using JavaScript, hence WebRTC support.

Around this time someone on TheVerge would call you a paid shill and attack you for being a Google fanboy!
 
And the denials grow even stronger. Here is one from Mark Zuckerberg @ Facebook:

I want to respond personally to the outrageous press reports about PRISM:

Facebook is not and has never been part of any program to give the US or any other government direct access to our servers. We have never received a blanket request or court order from any government agency asking for information or metadata in bulk, like the one Verizon reportedly received. And if we did, we would fight it aggressively. We hadn't even heard of PRISM before yesterday.

When governments ask Facebook for data, we review each request carefully to make sure they always follow the correct processes and all applicable laws, and then only provide the information if is required by law. We will continue fighting aggressively to keep your information safe and secure.

We strongly encourage all governments to be much more transparent about all programs aimed at keeping the public safe. It's the only way to protect everyone's civil liberties and create the safe and free society we all want over the long term.
Source: https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10100828955847631
I'm starting to wonder if these activities are not known by the companies and if there is corporate espionage at play here. Whatever it is... the rabbit hole continues to deepen.
 
And the denials grow even stronger. Here is one from Mark Zuckerberg @ Facebook:


Source: https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10100828955847631
I'm starting to wonder if these activities are not known by the companies and if there is corporate espionage at play here. Whatever it is... the rabbit hole continues to deepen.

Regardless of whether it's true or not, what do you think would happen if they wouldn't deny such claims?
 
The similarities in wording between the Google and Facebook denials are interesting: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mv06t60fV9YclwHzFmDOEk2wGGBj-jd5od7cS-I-d6E/preview?sle=true
They only deny that they are not giving the NSA "direct" access. To me that seems to imply an indirect access or no access to their servers at all but another method like pumping data to NSA directly.
It seems clear that Page and Zuck weigh and phrase their words carefully. It seems like they are trying to avoid speaking about the painful stuff.
 
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