Add-on XenReviews [CrowdFund]

[Brent W]

If one person is going to get extra attention during development phases and potentially hold up the release of the product because they are in Escrow, I'm out.

 

[Alpha1]

If one person is going to get extra attention during development phases and potentially hold up the release of the product because they are in Escrow, I'm out.

That's not the case. If anything the project becomes more secure because a fair part of the funding is only paid out once the release is out.
The payments in the crowdfunding site are released once the minimum pledges are met. i.e. once 2000 has been pledged XenMods will be paid 2000.

 

[Mouth]

That's not the case.

You're holding up to 1/3rd of the funding to meet your milestones. Of course it's a factor.

 

[Alpha1]

I was editing my post when you replied:
If anything the project becomes more secure because a fair part of the funding is only paid out once the release is out.
The payments in the crowdfunding site are released once the minimum pledges are met. i.e. once 2000 has been pledged XenMods will be paid 2000.

 

[Brent W]

That's not the case. If anything the project becomes more secure because a fair part of the funding is only paid out once the release is out.
The payments in the crowdfunding site are released once the minimum pledges are met. i.e. once 2000 has been pledged XenMods will be paid 2000.

I don't know you. For all I know you won't release your money until you have Purple Barney's all over the screen. There is nothing wrong with what we have now. I've been burned before on Pozible by a member here that still posts. I'm willing to give it another go because that is just something that happens in life.

There is no need to complicate this.

 

[Alpha1]

The terms of escrow are very clear. There can be no misunderstanding of the agreed terms. Its very simple.

There is no way that I am going to put 1k in pozzible. Sorry but I have learned the hard way. Milestones work great.

 

[Jeff Berry]

If one person is going to get extra attention during development phases and potentially hold up the release of the product because they are in Escrow, I'm out.

I understand where you're coming from, however one of the perks of the funding campaign was a contribution of more than $750 earns a 20% owner's share of the final project. There has to be some special interest there. In this case, Alfa's contribution can either make or break the project because of how generous it is. Without his contribution, it is possible that the goal will never be met, and the project will never take off.

The only reason we would lower the goal and start a new campaign in order to fund this project would be so that we can guarantee it's funding. If the goal was lowered to $2000, and that goal was met, and Alfa's $1000 was sitting in escrow, to me and Daniel, that means the funding has been met and we will be developing the product. Those who were part of the $2000 contribution will get the product obviously, because Daniel and myself will be working towards completing the project in order to release the other 1/3 of the funds.

If we may, let's just leave this open for discussion - like I said we would be willing to redo the campaign if and only if everybody that has already contributed is okay with it. If the decision is made to not start a new campaign, we will keep going with what we have. That is why no final decisions have been made as far as Alfa's contribution goes, we are not quite sure how to handle it. Again, I hope we can just leave this open to discussion, I'm sure we can all agree on some way to handle this.

 

[Brent W]

If someone wants to invest the $750 and get a 20% owner's share taking the same risk that I am, then that is fine. If we want to start bending over backwards for some people then Alfa1 should be looking to either fund this on his own or find others interested in his exact goals to fund it on his own. I'm not going to put my $240 up on not only your ability to follow through but someone else's $1,000 in Escrow.

 

[Jeff Berry]

I do understand the risk you are all taking. I'm not trying to argue with you on this so please don't take it that way, I am just trying to fully understand your concern: how does the $1000 being tied up in escrow take away from the chances of receiving the final product? Once the pozible goal of $2000 was met, and Alfa's $1000 was in escrow, as far as we are concerned all $3000 has been contributed and the development would begin. The only difference I can see I guess, is that if we were unable to deliver, Alfa would be guaranteed his refund whereas the pozible donators would not be, is that your concern?

This is how I feel, I know this is not fact, please understand this is just how I feel: In essence, no matter where the funds are all $3000 will in a way be tied up in escrow, because if we do not deliver it is Daniel and I's responsibility to refund the monies to you and the other contributors. I have been developing software for a long time, and Daniel has a reputation here he is trying to build upon and keep, so we would issue refunds strictly because it would be the right thing to do. Other than that, there would be no difference between contributors other than Alfa would receive his 20% commissions after release.

 

[Brent W]

I don't think you are going to screw me or I wouldn't have put the $240 up. Is it not correct that Alfa1 is not going to release his funds until certain criteria are met on his end? When our funds are given to you his will not, correct? Are you prepared to take a $1,000 hit if he decides he is not happy with his idea of what the product should be? What happens when things start being delayed because his milestones are not met? It's an investment. Everyone knew that before we even started Pozible.

If he wanted to put $1,000 up and didn't want to use Pozible he should have made that clear before any of this was set up. I vote to let the Pozible ride out and if Alfa1 doesn't want to contribute at all that is on him. We were almost at the halfway point already with well over a month left. One person has already pulled their money from this already. If we get to the half way point and you start giving us things to look at, I bet I can convince a few more people to jump onboard. Unfortunately, it isn't easy after the last member here acted like a child and screwed over people.

 

[Jeff Berry]

I don't think you are going to screw me or I wouldn't have put the $240 up. Is it not correct that Alfa1 is not going to release his funds until certain criteria are met on his end? When our funds are given to you his will not, correct? Are you prepared to take a $1,000 hit if he decides he is not happy with his idea of what the product should be? What happens when things start being delayed because his milestones are not met? It's an investment. Everyone knew that before we even started Pozible.

If he wanted to put $1,000 up and didn't want to use Pozible he should have made that clear before any of this was set up. I vote to let the Pozible ride out and if Alfa1 doesn't want to contribute at all that is on him. We were almost at the halfway point already with well over a month left. If we get to the half way point and you start giving us things to look at, I bet I can convince a few more people to jump onboard. Unfortunately, it isn't easy after the last member here acted like a child and screwed over people.

Okay, it's a little clearer to me now.

Alfa was not necessarily asking for any specific criteria, there are no special features or anything like that which he is expecting. His only concern was with his ownership, commission, and the licensing after the release. His funds would be released once a product (which you all agree upon) is delivered. As for the escrow, the "milestones" at which his funds would be released would be set upfront, before we start development. So you all would be aware of those terms as well. Alfa would be obligated to release his funds once we delivered.

We would be working towards finishing the project in order to release Alfa's funds, and yes I guess worst case scenario is we take a $1000 hit, but at that point I feel that we would be so far into the project that it would be more wise for us to just continue the project and try to make up that $1000 through license sales. However, your vote is recognized and I completely understand your view. I wasn't here for the last fiasco with the developer screwing people over, but I have seen such things in other environments and I know that is obviously not favorable for anybody.

 

[Alpha1]

IIs it not correct that Alfa1 is not going to release his funds until certain criteria are met on his end?

No I think you may have misunderstood. This is not correct. The milestones are released according to how it was defined on page 1 of this thread. i.e. upon beta release, upon release and upon 1.1 release. And the milestone specifics are also up for discussion. There are no specific criteria.

 

[Daniel Hood]

I was away from the computer, my apologies. I understand where you guys are coming from. You're all taking a certain risk by contributing one way. We have not set up any other accounts, funds, or projects specifically for Alfa. I don't really want to and that's a reason why we haven't come to terms with Alfa.

I understand how it would be unfair for his portion to be a little safer than yours. I did from the start want the entire thing to be done in an escrow we just couldn't find a hybrid site that offered both escrow and crowd funding. I like the concept of all the money being in one place. We are attempting to get this entire thing funded and the project off the ground the same as you guys are.

From the start, I have maintained that all features would have be agreed upon by the group (or at least the majority). That still stands.

In short, the pozible account hasn't been cancelled, an escrow fund has not been started, there isn't any special treatment (aside from Alfa's intent to meet the $750 requirement for a share of 20% of the equity which is open to anyone).

Oh, and as far as this:

[...] and potentially hold up the release of the product.

Once we get to a certain point in development, we'll be doing at the very least weekly builds to keep you guys testing more and more features as we get close to a release.

 

[Brent W]

The terms of escrow are very clear. There can be no misunderstanding of the agreed terms. Its very simple.

There is no way that I am going to put 1k in pozzible. Sorry but I have learned the hard way. Milestones work great.

Well, with all due respect, I think we would all like our money in Escrow so we can have the same security as you. If I knew that special attention was going to be paid for those that wanted to invest in the 20% option, it would have been more appealing to me as well.

I'm not going to support this if we start doing escrow for one person. Everyone takes the same risk or I don't take any risk at all. Sorry.

 

[SelfSufficientMe]

I was away from the computer, my apologies. I understand where you guys are coming from. You're all taking a certain risk by contributing one way. We have not set up any other accounts, funds, or projects specifically for Alfa. I don't really want to and that's a reason why we haven't come to terms with Alfa.

I understand how it would be unfair for his portion to be a little safer than yours. I did from the start want the entire thing to be done in an escrow we just couldn't find a hybrid site that offered both escrow and crowd funding. I like the concept of all the money being in one place. We are attempting to get this entire thing funded and the project off the ground the same as you guys are.

From the start, I have maintained that all features would have be agreed upon by the group (or at least the majority). That still stands.

In short, the pozible account hasn't been cancelled, an escrow fund has not been started, there isn't any special treatment (aside from Alfa's intent to meet the $750 requirement for a share of 20% of the equity which is open to anyone).

Oh, and as far as this:



Once we get to a certain point in development, we'll be doing at the very least weekly builds to keep you guys testing more and more features as we get close to a release.

I'm glad you've cleared this up because having two funding accounts is a horse's bum - best stick with your original goal and if you want to start gripping this together before the whole funding is reached out of goodwill then all the better. More people will back this project once it starts taking shape because it's a top concept which will integrate nicely into xf and who dares wins

 

[Jeff Berry]

It sounds like we will be sticking with the original plan. Like I said we would only consider re-doing the campaign if everyone who has contributed to it agreed to it. It may take a little longer doing it this route, but based on what you guys have been saying it sounds like this type of addon is in high-demand and will eventually meet it's goal. We understand your concerns and we will continue the project as planned.

 

[trizz]

If everyone that has contributed is okay with starting a new crowd-funding campaign with a lower goal ($2000) I would be okay with that, whether it be on pozible again or indiegogo. We need to make sure everybody is okay with re-contributing though, obviously the current pozible campaign would be canceled and those funds would not be collected by us. This would most likely be the easiest way to go, and would almost guarantee that this project gets funded, thus we would be able to start full-time development ASAP.

im fine with recontributing. can we cancel the confirmed payments thru pozzible?

 

[Jeff Berry]

You can cancel/retract them, however I believe it has been decided that we will continue with the current campaign rather than having everybody re-contribute. The concern was brought up that some were able to have their contributions escrowed while others weren't.

 

[trizz]

You can cancel/retract them, however I believe it has been decided that we will continue with the current campaign rather than having everybody re-contribute. The concern was brought up that some were able to have their contributions escrowed while others weren't.

no prob ill leave mine where it is.

 

[Jeff Berry]

I'd like to announce that we received a major contribution to the project which brought us above the $1,500 threshold, meaning we will begin development of this project immediately. Daniel and I will set up a development board dedicated to this project tomorrow and send out invitations to all contributors so you can follow our progress there.

Thank you all for your support, and we both look forward to beginning this venture!