XenForo Wallet & Purchasable Features

[Alpha1]

It would be very useful if XenForo would have a Wallet for members.
Members would be able to fund their XenForo Wallet with through their PayPal account or credit card.
The balance in their XenForo Wallet could then be used to buy purchasable items, transfer amounts to other members or buy an account upgrade for other members.

The admin should be able to set purchasable items. For example:
- use feature X for Y amount.
- post content in node X for Y amount.
- download/access content in node X for Y amount.
- display custom field X for Y time for Z amount.

An important benefit of having this in the core is that addon developers can expand this in a lot of ways.
It would give the XenForo addon ecosystem an important boost.
As it's a financial feature that needs to be trusted and expanded by addon developers it's best to have this functionality in the core.
This function would make XenForo more profitable for webmasters as it would open a wide array of monetizing avenues.


Please note that I am not proposing a conventional credits system to reward users, but a financial wallet instead.

 

[Mouth]

The processing logic is still there..

Inconsequential and insignificant.

and for something as large as a commerce app (which is what it sounds like the request is basically for) IS better placed as a 1st party add-on, no different than the gallery, the RM or the ES.

Ahh, you've interpreted it as a large scale commerce app. This is very different, IMHO, to the OP's point and purpose.
I've interpreted it as a logical step to functionality XF already has - payment processing for purchasing. Just adding the ability to purchase credit into a wallet, and enabling 3rd party add-on developers to have hooks to extend it further, providing a consistent framework for actual commerce apps/add-on to be developed for, or integrated into, XF.

The point is CODE BLOAT, as in what some other scripts suffer from.

The point is if ... then logic is insignificant and inconsequential to code features turned off.
There is insignificant difference between core and official add-on, other than being able to seperate charging.

 

[n00bsaibot]

A commerce platform depending on requested features could be as big and complex as Xenforo itself. It is extra bloat for those who don't want it.

 

[TPerry]

Ahh, you've interpreted it as a large scale commerce app. This is very different, IMHO, to the OP's point and purpose.
I've interpreted it as a logical step to functionality XF already has - payment processing for purchasing. Just adding the ability to purchase credit into a wallet,

Well, this doesn't sound exactly like hooks (which is what you are referring to basically)

The admin should be able to set purchasable items. For example:
- use feature X for Y amount.
- post content in node X for Y amount.
- download/access content in node X for Y amount.
- display custom field X for Y time for Z amount.

Looks pretty much like a commerce app to me - albeit limited to XF specific abilities.

 

[Mouth]

Looks pretty much like a commerce app to me - albeit limited to XF specific abilities.

With the very next line below saying;
"An important benefit of having this in the core is that addon developers can expand this in a lot of ways."
... thus meaning 3rd party add-on developers can create functionality such as that which you quoted if the wallet framework exists.

 

[Mouth]

A commerce platform depending on requested features could be as big and complex as Xenforo itself. It is extra bloat for those who don't want it.

As opposed to a wallet framework existing in core (from reading the suggestion and clarifications, is the purpose) to allow a consistent platform and approach for 3rd party add-ons to be developed for anything between simple use wallet credit for simple xf functionality to large scale commerce applications.

 

[TPerry]

With the very next line below saying;
"An important benefit of having this in the core is that addon developers can expand this in a lot of ways."
... thus meaning 3rd party add-on developers can create functionality such as that which you quoted if the wallet framework exists.

To me, what it means is the commerce ability IN THE CORE already (which allows those functions) and that additional features can be ADDED to, not hooks that they can use with no ability in the core. As I said, I have no issues with hooks for extendability - where I disagree is that a commerce type app (even a small store type) needs to be coded into core.

 

[Mouth]

where I disagree is that a commerce type app (even a small store type) needs to be coded into core.

Perhaps you should ask/clarify with the OP making the suggestion if they mean a wallet framework with hooks or a commerce type app, before launching into that it shouldn't be core and instead be an add-on? In my read, the OP meant the former and not the latter, eg.

Addon developers can then easily apply this to their content types, or add invoicing, expand to a shop, donations, etc.

All this effort or arguing for/against a suggestion being core or official add-on based on, what appears to me to be incorrect, interpretation and assumption.

 

[TPerry]

In my read, the OP meant the former and not the latter - "Addon developers can then easily apply this to their content types, or add invoicing, expand to a shop, donations, etc."

As in "add on developers can extend the gallery" Or "add-on developers can extend the RM".
I'm usually pretty good reading and comprehending the English language. When someone says

An important benefit of having this in the core is that addon developers can expand this in a lot of ways.

and right prior to that is

The admin should be able to set purchasable items. For example:
- use feature X for Y amount.
- post content in node X for Y amount.
- download/access content in node X for Y amount.
- display custom field X for Y time for Z amount.

it lends one to believe that there is a BASIC function set built in that can then be EXTENDED by add-on developers.

In THIS specific area he appears to be referring to HOOKS that can be used by add-on developers to allow "For Pay" features

I want a basic financial layer of functionality that addon developers can expand on. XenForo is great because its easy to enhance with addons. It would be great if it would provide a basic financial feature set so that it could be expanded in this direction as well.

So, the main question is, is it a FRAMEWORK that he wants, or the ability (even a baseline one) to do some of those functions he mentioned in his first post.

 

[Mouth]

So, the main question is, is it a FRAMEWORK that he wants, or the ability (even a baseline one) to do some of those functions he mentioned in his first post.

That's my point - ask and clarify, contribute to the suggestion and solution - rather than just nay saying with a 2 sentence opinion that it should not be core and be an add-on.
I read those functions in his first post as example of what could be done, and how it could be utilised, if the wallet framework existed. In both his first and second posts, he clearly mentions, to my understanding, that the functionality is primarily for 3rd party developers to extend it to purchasable items - from small scale functionality to large scale shop/commerce add-ons.

 

[TPerry]

I don't know HOW much clearer my statement that

To me, what it means is the commerce ability IN THE CORE already (which allows those functions) and that additional features can be ADDED to, not hooks that they can use with no ability in the core. As I said, I have no issues with hooks for extendability - where I disagree is that a commerce type app (even a small store type) needs to be coded into core.

can be.

 

[Mouth]

I don't know HOW much clearer my statement that can be.

... and relating that to ....

Addon developers can then easily apply this to their content types, or add invoicing, expand to a shop, donations, etc.

... meaning that you are indeed supporting that this suggestion be part of core.

 

[TPerry]

... meaning that you are indeed supporting that this suggestion be part of core.

No, you are reading into what you WANT him to say - and I haven't seen an outright statement that what he wants is HOOKS so that it can be extended. Clarification upon @Alfa1's part would go a long way towards clearing that.
Is he wanting the funds actually stored locally in the system? If so, that sure sounds like a credits system to me (and which is addressed by current add-ons) in which you can use PayPal, etc to purchase credits to be used for various functions/features.
The very title of the suggestion is a XenForo wallet (basically credits) and a purchasing system - which in that case sounds like a commerce app to me.

 

[Mouth]

Clarification upon @Alfa1's part would go a long way towards clearing that.

Yep, https://xenforo.com/community/threads/xenforo-wallet-purchasable-features.109578/page-3#post-1016928

 

[Chris D]

Can I just clarify that a constant back and forth about the virtues of a suggestion being core or not is entirely pointless. I don't mean to be rude, but frankly we can decide ourselves whether something is appropriate for the core or not, so feel free to have that opinion, but there's little point in arguing it.

 

[Alpha1]

Clarification upon @Alfa1's part would go a long way towards clearing that.
Is he wanting the funds actually stored locally in the system?

Actual funds stay in the admins PayPal account. But the credit a user has is noted in the users account. That's the point of a wallet. From there it can be spent.
Mind that credit does not equal credits. I do not propose a points system (Credits)

 

[ichpen]

I like the idea of a framework as much as the next person but do keep in mind a digital wallet concept in it's literal sense is a place where users store their various credentials and can extend beyond pure payment vehicles i.e. credits, points, loyalty, ID, cash and so forth. It's not necessarily just a pot of e-cash. So title may be a little misleading.

Your proposal the way I read it is a) add appropriate eligible purchase 'hooks' for want of a better word across various XF capabilities b) establish a secure framework for collection, conversion and dispensation of virtual and real currency c) potentially add support for various transactional/payment models i.e. gifting, purchase, refunds, subscriptions and so forth. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it.

My feedback would be as follows:

1. There's ludicrous levels of scrutiny around credit card processing these days (at least in North America) i.e. read up on PCI 3.1. The actual processing of payments should be left to the discretion of the forum owner and/or 3rd party plugin that wants to utilise this. You really don't want to be in the business of processing credit cards. Caution should be taken here.

2. The framework should permit custom conversions

3. Framework should permit custom currencies and weighting of purchasable 'items'

4. Framework should support various payment models as above across each category of items

It needs a bit of thought for sure. I do like the idea in principal as the current third party offerings are very vertical (this is understandable and not intended to be a criticism).

 

[Alpha1]

My suggestion does not include any credit card processing, credential storage or points. Payment processors like PayPal can handle the payment processing.

 

[TPerry]

My suggestion does not include any credit card processing, credential storage or points. Payment processors like PayPal can handle the payment processing.

Points, credits, whatever you want to call them.. a true wallet needs to have storage for them if they are purchased (same as carrying cash in your wallet) otherwise what you are talking about is simply a store where you purchase things at that time with no funds banked.... and I think that's really what you want is a bank system where one can use Paypal (or other transaction authority) to transfer funds into your account and then you can issue credits based upon that.

 

[Alpha1]

There is a big difference between credit (as in money you can spend) and a points/credits system to earn points.
That's what I would like to make clear.

 

[ichpen]

There is a big difference between credit (as in money you can spend) and a points/credits system to earn points.
That's what I would like to make clear.

There is a difference and both can be stored in a wallet.