XenForo needs a Lawrence Cole

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AlexT said:
+1.

It's a common phenomenon how people cope with difficult situations. You can be in denial and focus on the positive aspects of life (who cares about the lawsuit - XF is a great piece of software), or you can be realistic, if not pessimistic (XF is a great piece of software, but what will happen to my community should XF lose this lawsuit). If you belong to the first group, fine, you don't care about any of this and you wish the discussion to end. If you belong to the second group, you wish for a sense of continuity, a positive feeling that XF will also exist tomorrow. Naturally, XF couldn't comment about the ongoing suit, but until recently, it had been made up by Kier's and Mike's constant presence here, assuring us that, despite everything, things are on track. The result: confidence and trust could fosters despite everything.

It'd be nice by those who don't care about the lawsuit or its possible aftermath to accept that there others who do care and do worry. Trust is not something that comes automatically, but is something that is built through time. When we do trust, we are willing to be vulnerable. In particular with the hanging lawsuit. Don't undermine this trust.
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I could understand this if there had been no releases for six months or more; support had stopped; and no one from XF was commenting. Sure, that would be something to worry about.

However, the latest release was just eight weeks ago and more recently Mike has told us that development is ongoing - so I really don't understand what there is to worry about. Even for the pessimists ... :D

Yes, Kier was very active here up until recently and people may take his lack of posting/logins to mean something is up; but it could simply mean that - having belted out some cracking software and worked tirelessly for 18 months - he simply wants a break to spend time with his family and to begin the really hard work of producing 1.2 (which, based on previous releases, is likely to be the XF version that people will have the highest expectations of - and I doubt he'll want to disappoint!!)

We've also got support going full-time now for the existing license holders and the many new converts who are just coming over to XF and need their hand holding whilst they get into the swing of it - that's a hell of a lot for a two-man team to deal with (presumably Ashley doesn't program/support - apologies Ashley if you do?).

I'm an optimist - I'll readily admit that I focus on the positives - but I genuinely do not see anything at all wrong with the way XF is being run, or with the lack of announcements, or worry that the company is about to fold. And I'm genuinely surprised that people can jump to such conclusions. I mean, come on, threads on other sites with titles like "Are we dead?" - really? Seriously?

I simply understand the pressure the team will have been working under these last months; appreciate that the lawsuits will impact development (and the mental state of the team and their families); and that 1.2 is going to be a lot of work and will require specific focus that will not be helped by the developers chatting here on the community site.

What has given anyone a genuine reason to lose faith/trust in XF? What have they done to set such alarm bells ringing?

I just don't see it. I really don't.

Cheers,
Shaun :D
 
Clickfinity said:
I could understand this if there had been no releases for six months or more; support had stopped; and no one from XF was commenting. Sure, that would be something to worry about.

However, the latest release was just eight weeks ago and more recently Mike has told us that development is ongoing - so I really don't understand what there is to worry about. Even for the pessimists ... :D

Yes, Kier was very active here up until recently and people may take his lack of posting/logins to mean something is up; but it could simply mean that - having belted out some cracking software and worked tirelessly for 18 months - he simply wants a break to spend time with his family and to begin the really hard work of producing 1.2 (which, based on previous releases, is likely to be the XF version that people will have the highest expectations of - and I doubt he'll want to disappoint!!)

We've also got support going full-time now for the existing license holders and the many new converts who are just coming over to XF and need their hand holding whilst they get into the swing of it - that's a hell of a lot for a two-man team to deal with (presumably Ashley doesn't program/support - apologies Ashley if you do?).

I'm an optimist - I'll readily admit that I focus on the positives - but I genuinely do not see anything at all wrong with the way XF if being run, or with the lack of announcements, or worry that the company is about to fold. And I'm genuinely surprised that people can jump to such conclusions. I mean, come on, threads on other sites with titles like "Are we dead?" - really? Seriously?

I simply understand the pressure the team will have been working under these last months; appreciate that the lawsuits will impact development (and the mental state of the team and their families); and that 1.2 is going to be a lot of work and will require specific focus that will not be helped by the developers chatting here on the community site.

What has given anyone a genuine reason to lose faith/trust in XF? What have they done to set such alarm bells ringing?

I just don't see it. I really don't.

Cheers,
Shaun :D
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Thanks for this post...:)
 
I'm refraining from directly addressing this myself, but I'll only echo what others have said to me directly.

I speak to people about migrating, setting up new services and ways to improve existing installations. What I heard the most is:

- They want XenForo technology. (new, fresh)
- They want updates/feedback from management like what IPB does.(blogs)
- They want features like vBulletin/IPB + customization communities like vBulletin.org

That last point is coming together, but when they ask about progress and development of XenForo, I can't really answer them other than we're expecting a new release within this quarter. For IPB and vBulletin, there are updates and upgrades coming out with someone communicating with customers on a regular basis.

Opinions vary what what Kier/Mike/Ashley should or should not do. People [do] want to hear something other than the usual canned responses that other members here have already been rehashing. That's just a fact, plain and simple. Moreover, just a simple official announcement* on a somewhat regular schedule would set a lot of people at ease. This applies to current customers, future customers and anyone in between.


*Exception applies to legal advice that may preclude management from freely posting updates or interacting with the customer base.
 
Clickfinity said:
Yes, Kier was very active here up until recently and people may take his lack of posting/logins to mean something is up; but it could simply mean that - having belted out some cracking software and worked tirelessly for 18 months - he simply wants a break to spend time with his family and to begin the really hard work of producing 1.2 (which, based on previous releases, is likely to be the XF version that people will have the highest expectations of - and I doubt he'll want to disappoint!!)
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I agree, the problem is, how much time does to take to make a post along the lines of 'I'm still here, don't panic, I'm just concentrating on coding for the next couple of months', or 'I'm still here, but my personal life has had to take priority for a couple of months'.

Either way, it doesn't take a minute to make a post like that and all the rumours that get generated by lack of communication vanish.

The problem is that by saying nothing, they've left a void and nothing fills a void quicker than rumours and disinformation.

To be honest, there are two aspects to this, one more concerning than the other. Firstly that Kier has for all intents & purposes, disappeared. Secondly that the company (or Kier) makes no post to explain this. The latter, to me at least, raises more eyebrows than the former.

The fact that it is so easy to make a post as suggested above, raises the bigger question, why haven't they said anything.

The work I'm doing now (and I'm sure a number of admins are doing the same) is basically doing a lot of work developing the future of my websites around XenForo. Its not a simply migration task, its refactoring existing code, writing new code and as such I've staked quite a lot of my time and money into XenForo.

The court case(s) actually don't worry me half as much as Kier's impression of Lord Lucan or even XF's lack of comment on the matter. Especially given that the rumours and disinformation spread about it on other sites are probably actually harming sales as people read this and think 'wow, Kier's left XenForo' or whatever bull is being spread away from this forum - all because they've said nothing to explain it.

Apologies to Kier if you're reading this and the reason is a personal one, as I said, we're not after details (well, I'm not anyway and really nor should anyone else), we're simply after a comment to explain the absence, as suggested above. If its personal, fine - just say its personal. Quite frankly, the lack of comment is beginning to be more damaging than the lack of activity from Kier.
 
Is it beyond the realm of people's imagination that Kier's absence from the forums could be related to something so incredibly (deeply) personal that everything else (and I mean everything) pales in comparison and takes a back seat (and becomes temporarily completely unimportant)?

Have none of you been through times and trials in your life that have made your normal day-to-day routine, plans, communications, etc. go right out of the window? Lost someone really close to you? Had your home flooded/burned to the ground/reposessed? Been attacked and put in hospital? Become clinically depressed? ... use your imagination for other possible scenarios that would make your forums/business become the very last thing on your mind!!!

When that happened to you - did you dash off to tell your membership? Did you give them a regular update on how you were doing? Did you include everyone in your deeply personal troubles? Or did you simply walk away and deal with what was going on in your life and return later when things were sorted/settled?

The Doomsday crowd can have free reign from me from here on in; but I will say this one final thing - if it does turn out to be something very personal that has kept the XF team away from the forums, I hope the hounds and naysayers have the good grace to apologise afterwards!! ;)

Cheers,
Shaun
 
Why would we need to apologise when there is an immediate need for them to inform us of what's happening? No matter what it is, even personal stuff (not details of course). This because many of us depends on this forum software. If they suddenly stop posting updates and not giving us reassurance, I can easily understand that more and more people will jump ship for another forum platform.

Uncertainty when XF is still a youngster is hardly healthy.
 
I see that xenforo accomplished this:

1. Release of xenforo 1.0, then 1.1 which is stable. There are minor releases all the time.
2. Release of a short roadmap when 1.2 will be released and what will most likely be part of it
3. Release of the elasticsearch product for big boards. It runs flawless.
4. Release of the Resource Manager on xenforo.com with dozens of addon releases, hundreds of ratings and dozens of developer tutorials already included.

Points 2-4 were done within the first quarter of this year, Q1/2012. Point 2 is "Talk". The other points are "Do".
 
Clickfinity said:
Is it beyond the realm of people's imagination that Kier's absence from the forums could be related to something so incredibly (deeply) personal that everything else (and I mean everything) pales in comparison and takes a back seat (and becomes temporarily completely unimportant)?

Have none of you been through times and trials in your life that have made your normal day-to-day routine, plans, communications, etc. go right out of the window? Lost someone really close to you? Had your home flooded/burned to the ground/reposessed? Been attacked and put in hospital? Become clinically depressed? ... use your imagination for other possible scenarios that would make your forums/business become the very last thing on your mind!!!

When that happened to you - did you dash off to tell your membership? Did you give them a regular update on how you were doing? Did you include everyone in your deeply personal troubles? Or did you simply walk away and deal with what was going on in your life and return later when things were sorted/settled?

The Doomsday crowd can have free reign from me from here on in; but I will say this one final thing - if it does turn out to be something very personal that has kept the XF team away from the forums, I hope the hounds and naysayers have the good grace to apologise afterwards!! ;)

Cheers,
Shaun
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Shaun I read this topic, while I agree with you that no one has really any rights to know what Kier's up to I see that most people aren't speaking about that but the issue of there being no roadmap from any of the other staff members (Mike, Ashley).

I'm seeing this from a neutral point of view, some customers are right in what they ask for, a simple "what's going to happen for something you paid", while other customers are also right saying that the software as it is now is stable, has most features (if not all) and works wonderfully.

This is a classic case of difference of opinion, but yes I think just two simple words like "everything's fine" would help settle the doubts some customers have.

I personally trust the XF team :P Yes I may not run a big community like some other admins, yes I don't own multiple licenses but I trust the guys that made XF, and I am grateful to them since when I see my community members happy, half of the time its due to the software.
 
sami simo said:
I left IB /VB after the release of VB4, I planned to convert my forums to XF. but I when I saw that most threads here are closed. I changed my idea, that scare me.
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Don't let closing of threads or these types of threads scare you from getting a license,

Yes its a concern but look at it this way, IPB and VB have many employees, many developers and due to their size they have the opportunity to also post on the forums and communicate with members.

Notice the fact that support tickets are still being handled, that shows that the staff is not completely missing, they just aren't active around the forum, yes for some a roadmap would be preferred but I like surprises, I'd be happier to see something included in the next XF version that was never revealed before. But that's just me and I understand not everyone prefers that.

As a forum administrator you are the captain of the ship, a captain has the responsibility of all the crew on his head while you have the responsibility of your community and members on your head. Don't tell me that just the absence of staff presence on the xenforo community (notice, community) would raise a doubt in your mind regarding purchasing the software that in my opinion is the best out there.
 
Clickfinity said:
Is it beyond the realm of people's imagination that Kier's absence from the forums could be related to something so incredibly (deeply) personal that everything else (and I mean everything) pales in comparison and takes a back seat (and becomes temporarily completely unimportant)?
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I completely agree with you, but as I said in my post on the previous page, if it is then I apologise now. However, my point is still valid - how long does it take to make a post saying 'I'm having to take some time out because of personal reasons'.

Also as I said before, its not the fact that he's awol now, its the fact nothing is being said that is more damaging.
 
Clickfinity said:
Is it beyond the realm of people's imagination that Kier's absence from the forums could be related to something so incredibly (deeply) personal that everything else (and I mean everything) pales in comparison and takes a back seat (and becomes temporarily completely unimportant)?
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Of course it isn't. The issue isn't his disappearance, but the lack of communication from employees who haven't vanished.

Clickfinity said:
When that happened to you - did you dash off to tell your membership?
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We aren't his hobby forum, we're clients who rely on being in the loop to make informed decisions about their product. That isn't to say I want to know about his personal life - I don't. I want to be communicated with period.
 
Mark.B said:
Why do you and others keep falling back on this "personal life" thing? It's nothing to do with that, as has been stated repeatedly by many people now.
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Exactly.

Please do not misinterpret the inability of others to articulate their concerns to your satisfaction as them asking for a status update on the personal affairs of the devs.

We like this software. We're invested in it. We want to know what's going on with the apparent absence of any real figurehead.
 
Deebs said:
Of course not, I have been speaking English longer than you have been alive most likely. I just know you from all the bull**** you spread (like a farmer) around the internet. No malice in that, just that I have learnt and understand that you are someone who has to be disregarded as you have no credibility.
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Totally agree with this. No offence to Mark.B, but his credibility is really shot to pieces and he has no one but only himself to thank for that. It is always drama with this guy, and as mentioned above, what he says now he doesn''t say it a few minutes later. He changes his mind faster than you can blink lol :D I stopped taking him and a few other trolls seriously a long time ago.

Back on subject, personally I am not worried. From what I have seen here so far, the xenforo guys love their project to just drop it like that. But I can understand the concern expressed by a lot of users about their absence without mentioning a reason. That is a very legit concern. But some users take it too far with their conspiracy theories. All they do is gossip like a bunch of old ladies.
 
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