Windows 7 vs Windows 8

[Mike Edge]

Loving Win8 so far. First few days I hated it as neither my Steelseries keyboard or Naga mouse worked correctly, but both came out with drivers fairly quickly. Didn't have Win7, I made the jump from Vista. Thunderbird no longer crashes like it did in Vista. Firefox and Chrome both seem faster and World of Warcraft is much faster, it's video rendering is amazing and it uses almost half the RAM to run it as Vista ate and about 22% less CPU.

 

[feldon30]

Missed this thread.

So... Apple and Google wrote mobile OSes for their phones and then adapted them for Tablets. End result? A fantastic user experience with tens of thousands of finger-friendly apps. Meanwhile, Microsoft started to build a new tablet OS which would have cleaned Apple's clock but Steve Ballmer killed it off and instead they made Windows 7 SP1 and put a brightly colored launcher on top of it and called it Windows 8. Windows 8 is substandard both as a Tablet OS and as a Desktop OS.

I'm curious... All these folks who gloss about how wonderful Windows 8 is as an OS... Have you tried to install any device with an unsigned driver? If you are a power user, this is a very real possibility that one of your olderdevices is from a company that does not feel like shelling out $1500+ to Microsoft for Windows 8 certification. Want to know what you have to do to install an unsigned driver in Windows 8? It's 39 steps and requires 2 reboots.

I'm sure a few haters will be along shortly to say just throw away that device and buy a new one.

Also in response to SneakyDave, every version of Windows gets a slower, less useful, less accurate Search feature. First, they filtered out any filename that does not have an "official" registered Microsoft viewer. If you are a web designer, then this means searches for PHP and XML files would return 0 results. This is not to mention the obtrusive Indexing service which seems to need to run all hours of the day just to index your hard drives, all while sucking up more and more RAM and CPU resources. After typing in a partial filename for a known file, waiting 2 minutes for it to tell me there were 0 results, I got tired of it and downloaded Search Everything. It's free and all it does is grab a complete list of every file in every folder on all your hard drives. Filename searches are realtime like the Google search box and sortable by file type and folder. It's inexplicable to me why Microsoft's search functionality keeps getting worse with each version of Windows.

Prediction: I will be running Windows 7 five years from now.

Let's have a thread about the visual nightmare of Office 2013.

 

[Luke F]

Missed this thread.

So... Apple and Google wrote mobile OSes for their phones and then adapted them for Tablets. End result? A fantastic user experience with tens of thousands of finger-friendly apps. Meanwhile, Microsoft started to build a new tablet OS which would have cleaned Apple's clock but Steve Ballmer killed it off and instead they made Windows 7 SP1 and put a brightly colored launcher on top of it and called it Windows 8. Windows 8 is substandard both as a Tablet OS and as a Desktop OS.

I'm curious... All these folks who gloss about how wonderful Windows 8 is as an OS... Have you tried to install any device with an unsigned driver? If you are a power user, this is a very real possibility that one of your olderdevices is from a company that does not feel like shelling out $1500+ to Microsoft for Windows 8 certification. Want to know what you have to do to install an unsigned driver in Windows 8? It's 39 steps and requires 2 reboots.

I'm sure a few haters will be along shortly to say just throw away that device and buy a new one.

Also in response to SneakyDave, every version of Windows gets a slower, less useful, less accurate Search feature. First, they filtered out any filename that does not have an "official" registered Microsoft viewer. If you are a web designer, then this means searches for PHP and XML files would return 0 results. This is not to mention the obtrusive Indexing service which seems to need to run all hours of the day just to index your hard drives, all while sucking up more and more RAM and CPU resources. After typing in a partial filename for a known file, waiting 2 minutes for it to tell me there were 0 results, I got tired of it and downloaded Search Everything. It's free and all it does is grab a complete list of every file in every folder on all your hard drives. Filename searches are realtime like the Google search box and sortable by file type and folder. It's inexplicable to me why Microsoft's search functionality keeps getting worse with each version of Windows.

Prediction: I will be running Windows 7 five years from now.

Let's have a thread about the visual nightmare of Office 2013.

There's no excuse for unsigned drivers any more with the open source projects like ReactOS signing drivers for people (eg process hacker). And I don't see how it is any different from 7, apart from the removal of the command to permanently enable test mode. If they have made it so you don't have to boot with the 'disable device signature enforcement' option every time and only when installing the driver, then it's actually a significant improvement (disregarding permanent test mode).

As for the search.. why would you search for a file from the start menu/metro? For me, finding the correct file going by filename alone would be impossible - the search would have to start in a specific directory to not get loads of duplicates.

 

[mistypants]

I bought a laptop at the end of December that had Windows 8 pre-installed; I figured I'd give it a try and, if I didn't like it, just install Windows 7. I installed Start8 to get the Start Menu back a few days in but I've considered uninstalling it for one reason: the Metro screen is actually quite nice. I used OblyTile to add Desktop apps to it and now use it as my start menu replacement. The Windows Store I've only looked around in a little bit, I want to give it more time not just to get more apps but to let users review the apps, because there's some dodgy stuff on there.

I do notice some speed differences in Windows 8 from 7 but it's nothing to make you switch to the OS ( although the new task manager is really really nice ). I'll keep it on my laptop, dunno if i'd recommend it my mom but it's solid.

 

[jmurrayhead]

From "The Windows Guru":

(Running Windows 8.) I can think of at least 8 reasons why the Windows Guru will be running Linux when the lifecycle for Windows 7 runs out!

It's horrific. They've actually made it worse since beta. Who even knew that was possible? All kidding aside, it's virtually unusable as a desktop OS and productivity was never a consideration. It take up to half a dozen steps to accomplish any simple task.

 

[Mike Edge]

From "The Windows Guru":

They aren't much of a guru if they require 1/2 dozen steps to accomplish anything in Win8. As a Mac user for 15 years, I found Win8 the most simplistic OS to ever use, even easier and faster then MacOSX.

 

[jmurrayhead]

They aren't much of a guru if they require 1/2 dozen steps to accomplish anything in Win8. As a Mac user for 15 years, I found Win8 the most simplistic OS to ever use, even easier and faster then MacOSX.

I'd say your comment is a bit harsh, but carry on.

 

[Taylor J]

I'd say your comment is a bit harsh, but carry on.

How is his comment harsh?

 

[Mike Edge]

I'd say your comment is a bit harsh, but carry on.

Was ment at The Windows Guru, not you personally

 

[jmurrayhead]

How is his comment harsh?

Basically challenging the knowledge of the person I quoted by saying he's not much of a guru.

Was ment at The Windows Guru, not you personally

Yes, I understand that. But without really knowing the tasks he's trying to accomplish and how long it takes to do those in Windows 8 as opposed to previous versions, I don't think it's fair to judge him like that. And he very well could have been slightly exaggerating how many steps it actually takes to make a point. Anyway, carry on...

 

[Mike Edge]

But without really knowing the tasks he's trying to accomplish

He stated " accomplish any simple task" and if he is exaggerating to that extent on the steps it takes, how could that be a fair review of the product, more so when it is very easy to use..

 

[jmurrayhead]

He stated " accomplish any simple task" and if he is exaggerating to that extent on the steps it takes, how could that be a fair review of the product, more so when it is very easy to use..

I think you're looking into this a little too much. This is a guy that I've known to be very knowledgeable with the Windows operating system for almost 10 years. He's someone who can write a script to fix a Windows-related issue in a pinch and always seems to have a working solution to a problem. Regardless, you're entitled to your opinion of him as is anyone else. I'm out.

 

[Taylor J]

I think you're looking into this a little too much. This is a guy that I've known to be very knowledgeable with the Windows operating system for almost 10 years. He's someone who can write a script to fix a Windows-related issue in a pinch and always seems to have a working solution to a problem. Regardless, you're entitled to your opinion of him as is anyone else. I'm out.

No he isn't looking into this "too much". You're just trying to defend a guy that says it takes up to a half dozen steps to accomplish a simple task, which is not true.

 

[Wildcat Media]

On the contrary, I quite enjoy using Windows 8 on a non-touch screen laptop.

It doesn't feel much different to Windows 7 in general usage. Yeah there's a start screen instead of a start menu but if you make use of desktop shortcuts and taskbar pinned items then you rarely notice that there's this new touch friendly UI in front of everything.

That being said, there's not a whole lot of benefit of using Windows 8 over Windows 7. So my answer is: "Toss a coin".

I agree--I have Win8 on a desktop and will never roll back to Win7. I read all the *****ing online about how terrible Win8 is, and you know what? As I do my day to day work, I'm on my familiar desktop. All of my most-used applications are in my Quick Launch bar, at the bottom of the screen where they have been for 10+ years now. (My taskbar is two rows high--Quick Launch on the bottom, running applications top.) Everything runs and opens like it always has.

When do I go to the Win8 start screen? If I want to play a couple of the games, flip through some news, etc. (It's a nice way to get away from the distractions of the "work" on my desktop if I just want to chill for a bit.) Or, if I need to hunt down an application I sometimes have to kick back to start screen. I like the data updates on the lockscreen, but wish I could add more of them. Can't say I'm totally sold on the start screen idea, but if you want the start menu back, there are already a few add-ons out there which will add it back in. (Start8 by Stardock seems to be the best of what's out there.) And there are tweaks to boot right to the logon screen and your desktop, bypassing the start screen. They take all of a minute or two to change.

What advantages do I see? Way more keyboard shortcuts that utilize the Windows key. My most recent favorite is <Win-X>. I'm getting used to the minimalistic theme. Performance-wise I've noticed improvement all around. Some disk operations are faster now--there were often pauses or laggy behavior in Win7 that I am no longer seeing in Win8. Also, with this crap motherboard of mine, I can finally put the computer into sleep mode in Win8 and have it wake properly. The task manager has also changed, offering more ways to view running processes and services. Explorer now has a "ribbon" and while I hide it most of the time, I reveal it if I'm doing a lot of file operations since it actually does have a few useful tools on it.

I just installed Office 2013 a few days ago, and while I did have to dig a bit to find the icons to put on my Quick Launch bar (it installed things on the start screen), I'm up and rockin' now. If I reduce the ribbon to tabs and turn off rulers, there is almost no "interface" around a document, which is very nice--I like working from an uncluttered interface.

Keep in mind that underneath the new GUI, this is really just Windows NT 6.2 (Vista = 6.0, Win7 = 6.1, Win8 = 6.2...yeah, I know ). So the core of the OS is proven and solid. I was running Win7 for months without a reboot, and so far Win8 is just as solid. All my previously running background services still run--everything from my Mezzmo DLNA server to Apache and MySQL.

I'm laptop shopping. I don't necessarily want one, and to be honest I really dislike them (not as much as tablets), but I need one for school. I really like the touchscreen laptop I tried, but at a $200-$300 premium, I can't swing it. I like navigating things better in Win8 with the touchscreen than those ridiculous touchpads, and I don't really want to lug a mouse around with me either.

All the naysayers in the press just like to find anything to complain about. Day to day? I'm in my familiar desktop, and everything is where I left it before the upgrade. Other than the start screen that I don't use much, nothing has really changed all that much. It was worth a $40 upgrade fee; I upgraded for only $15, and got the free Media Center upgrade as well.

 

[SilverCircle]

How long have you been running it for?

Installed it around mid-November on my desktop PC, a couple of days later on my notebook.

Has it been stable?

So far, yes. No crashes/bsod or other weird behavior.

Any major snags?

Some issues with Explorer crashing when Alt-tabbing out of fullscreen apps that run at a different resolution (e.g. games). Probably a video driver issue since it stopped at some point when I updated the nVidia drivers. Doesn't happen any longer.

Probably not long enough to tell... but, how does NTFS and the registry hold up over time?

Not different from any other Windows NT based system. NTFS has a tendency to fragment because of some major design flaws in it, and this can lead to performance degradation on older installs. Registry bloat also contributes. There are some ways to counter these problems, but basically, it's something you have to live with as a Windows user.

Have you bypassed the startscreen/metro apps?

I do not use any Metro app or the start screen at all. Most metro apps are just toys and totally useless for me.

Basically, I rarely use tools that come with Windows anyway - Win8 is no difference. I have my own set of applications (most of them being fullly portable and installed in my dropbox) and generally do not use things like IE, Media Player or other Windows applications. Hell, I don't even use Windows Explorer, because its usability is still a nightmare when compared to a simple 2-paned file manager like total commander (that principle was invented in the 80's of the last century and still allows for a much better workflow than Explorer - which tells us a lot ).

Is your overall impression that's it can be a serious OS for getting work done (when cash and clients are on the line)?

Well, see above. I'm not really a typical user and I don't use Windows the way most people do. For me, it works though, at least at the same level of reliability and performance as Windows 7 did. It does feel a bit faster, but that might be a subjective impression, because real benchmarks show very little difference (measurable maybe, but probably not noticeable). With the exception of shutdown/hibernate and waking up from hibernation - these things are really a lot faster in Windows 8.

What I can say is that most of the applications, I've been using so far, are working w/o problems. This includes some high-end stuff like Softimage and/or Lightwave 3D among others.

I also like the new look of the UI. Very clean, lightweight, simple and definitely better than the old Aero. But that's a matter of personal taste - I know a lot of people are missing the transparency and glowing effects of Aero.

 

[feldon30]

There's no excuse for unsigned drivers any more with the open source projects like ReactOS signing drivers for people (eg process hacker).

How many vendors will spend $1,400 for a 5 year old device when they can just force you to buy this year's model? Look at Creative Labs. They gave a collective middle finger to their entire customer base and refused to write ANY Windows Vista/7/8 drivers for their products.

I personally use a USB device that is made by a mom-and-pop company. They are now facing spending $1,400 to get a signed driver. Their competitor said screw it and posted the PDF I linked above which walks customers through a 39 step process that requires 2 reboots.

And I don't see how it is any different from 7, apart from the removal of the command to permanently enable test mode.

The difference is 5-6 steps to install an unsigned driver vs. 39 steps.

I just have to ask -- how many problems even come from unsigned drivers? This seems to me to be like TSA Security Theater. Most of the video driver problems I have are when a great driver from nVidia.com is replaced with some WHQL garbage from Windows Update. Rolling back to nVidia's latest and greatest driver solves the problems. So many tech support issues come from WHQL drivers it's a freaking joke. Again, what is so great about signed drivers? It just seems to me to be a cash grab by Microsoft. Most of the problems people have with Windows these days from viruses, rootkits and browser vulnerabilities. I mean who accidentally installs drivers, signed or otherwise?

As for the search.. why would you search for a file from the start menu/metro? For me, finding the correct file going by filename alone would be impossible - the search would have to start in a specific directory to not get loads of duplicates.

Even doing a filename search inside a directory is EXTREMELY slow in Windows Vista/7/8 unless you have indexing turned on, which turns the computer into a slug.

Again, I use Search Everything. It's a 600kb program written by a third party that does what Microsoft seems completely incapable of with a 23GB OS: Filename searching, sortable by date, directory, or file type, with REALTIME filtering as you type the filename.

 

[TrevC]

NTFS has a tendency to fragment because of some major design flaws in it, and this can lead to performance degradation on older installs. Registry bloat also contributes. There are some ways to counter these problems, but basically, it's something you have to live with as a Windows user.

Are you doing anything specific to help counter these flaws/issues?

If it makes you feel any better, Mac OS still has a garbage file system. Luckily, we can run ZFS on non-boot volumes now (boot volume support is coming soon).

Thanks for your input

 

[DRE]

I now have both Windows 7 and Windows 8 installed on my Macbook side by side thanks to VMWare Fusion 5. I used Windows 8.1 preview for the windows 8 installation. Not sure what all the difference is between that and the regular version. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/preview-download

 

[Chris D]

Been using a Mac now for over a month at home. Still no Windows

 

[DRE]

Welcome to the club!!!