Update on XenForo development status?

[Slavik]

It is your right to stick your head in the sand and leave into unknown. I also don't understand why do you speak on their behalf: "When KAM have an update to share... they will share it."

Because to quote Mike "development is still ongoing".

Personally I need some updates, so I don't understand why you posted in this thread since this matter does not concerns you.

Updates to XenForo, well, actually I do think they concern me. But to be blunt, you'll just have to wait like the rest of us.

Brogan, I'm really tired to hear immature answers and fanboysm replies.
All I want is to get some feedback and show developers that there are many concerned customers.

And we are just as tired to hear the same old questions to which answers have aready been provided...

 

[Floris]

In my personal opinion any thread like this, after the first one was made, could have been closed linking to the first one, or linking to Hello Again. Rather than putting even more uncalled for negativity on this community. There's a difference between not wanting to silence a customer, versus everybody repeating themselves every 4 days when another thread is created.

It won't be long before paying customers start putting money where their mouth is and not renew, not buy another license, and convert back over (ridiculous choice).​

If it appears the community is revolting, customers acting like idiots will just believe that's the case. And it starts to collapse on itself, resulting in positive word of mouth turning into negative. At which point a 1.1.3 maintenance release .zip is no longer a justified result to keep people happy, nor a message in 'hello again' saying they're back on track (and then not posting about their company, product, services, development or any other type of update since).

Personally I have my own opinion about this, I've talked to Mike and Kier and am more than willing to patiently wait. Sometimes things are just a sticky situation, sometimes personal and mental state requires time, and all that blah blah. I have no problem giving them that. Others who have no clue what's going on have nothing more but what appear to be good intentions to go on. I don't know about their patience.

I kinda dislike ending up posting in one of these threads again, but you still hope every time there is a post by Mike or Kier or Ashley giving an unofficial update.

 

[Floren]

Because to quote Mike "development is still ongoing".
And we are just as tired to hear the same old questions to which answers have already been provided...

I understand and I agree with you except for the part where answers have been provided. I guess the "biggest mistake" Kier made is to let us know in detail what is going on with the XenForo development. Originally, this was a strategic move so potential customers see what XenForo can produce. In my books the biggest mistake is not to keep your clients informed. Their software is still at infant stage and it has tremendous potential to grow. Stopping the information flow can only hurt the product, I simply do not understand why the good practice Kier had before was completely interrupted.

As a new possible XenForo client with a large forum, I look at the product details and also check the reviews on Google. Then all of the sudden I see a bunch of foreign posts on other sites telling about incertitude and all kind of lawsuits planing over XenForo. What am I tempted to do? We all know the answer...

Having Kier/Mike/Ashley posting development updates will only calm down everyone's spirit and also let people gain confidence into product like we did before. Would you purchase a license if you would not see new information about product development and note that the developers are not posting anything for a long time? Again, I'm comparing the situation with what we were used to before. Take a look the wealth of information we got on previous releases and how well informed we were about the new version development.

 

[yavuz]

As a new possible XenForo client with a large forum, I look at the product details and also check the reviews on Google. Then all of the sudden I see a bunch of foreign posts on other sites telling about incertitude and all kind of lawsuits planing over XenForo. What am I tempted to do? We all know the answer...

Floren is your concern soley because of the 'lack of updates' or something else? I couldn't make up my mind after reading this part of your message.

 

[RobParker]

I think by updates he means status updates, not software updates.

As long as we knew everything was ok and on track I think everyone would be happy to wait several months for the next release. It's the uncertainty being produced from the lack of status updates (in stark contrast to previously) that's the concern.

 

[Floren]

Floren is your concern soley because of the 'lack of updates' or something else? I couldn't make up my mind after reading this part of your message.

I probably did not expressed myself on a clear way. I recently had a talk with one of my clients that runs a vBulletin forum with 60 million posts. He asked me my opinion about XenForo. It is very hard for me to tell him "yes you should upgrade your board to XenForo" because I have no idea what is going on now. If he would of asked me the same question few months ago, I would of tell him this: "XenForo is a great product, but I would wait a bit more until they cover the current features your forums provide to members."

I guess what I'm looking for (as well other customers) is just a way to have the confidence restored into product. Then, I will be able to tell my clients this: "Do not pay attention to what is posted on the outside boards, they are all stupid rants that try to put down a good product. Look how nice the software development progresses and how great the new new features are implemented." Right now, I cannot say this anymore to my clients.

 

[Slavik]

I understand and I agree with you except for the part where answers have been provided.

Well you don't seem to be asking for anything specific in your first post. But to take out the key bits and inform you of what we have been told in your absence. I agree, more information would be nice, but lets just take it one step at a time.

Like many others, I'm wondering what is the status of XenForo development.

Development is still ongoing and Kier has been absent from the from the forum due to personal issues. Mike has informed us that despite Kiers lack of interaction it in no way reflects on the company as a whole.

When XenForo started to be sold as product, we got a wealth of information on a regular basis. We were also informed about the progress of newer versions and what features we will benefit from

As above, Kiers absence has been explained, and even before then Mike was less of a public figurehead than Kier. In recent weeks Mike has had additional claims put against him in the VB vs XenForo case. One would assume that between coding, answering support tickets and preparing a responce to the above claims he would have even less time to come and post on the forums.

We all knew before we purchased XenForo the situation with the lawsuit and took the gamble, and most of us appreciating what that may involve. At this stage, couplied with Kiers explination I don't think its far wrong to assume they are simply overwhelmed and under resourced.

Mike, Ashley and I have been unable to really celebrate that success due to the dark shadow of the ongoing lawsuits hanging over us and the grotesque cost of mounting a defence against them, which has meant that virtually every penny that XenForo has made has been consumed by legal fees rather than paying us a salary or allowing us to hire more staff to develop our products faster

Right now, we are at the same level with vBulletin communication. Total lack of information, developers are silent and nothing gets posted anymore.

As well as the aforementioned points this may be a business move to hide something groundbreaking and new to forum software which they are unwilling to share or even tip their hand until it is ready.

I also hope others will reply requesting an update also, forcing the end of this silent treatment we "enjoy" for a while.

Many already have which ended up with Kiers post.

I would appreciate if the developers will not post something vague.

As above, this may simply be a resources issue or a tactical move.


Now no, im not a member of staff of XenForo, nor do I have all the answers, and yes, I would like some updates also as they do effect me. But with all the information we do have available, its not beyond the realms of possibility that they simply don't have enough hours in the day at the moment and as such, I would like to think that simply giving them some space and room to manouver will be more beneficial than pestering for more answers as much as we all may want them.

 

[mrGTB]

We need an update now, and all those other threads brought up previously saying the same thing and still nothing comes. Also questions in them never got answered or was avoided then locked, hence why threads like this will still get posted until something IS said. I'm with Floren on this, I find it odd how Kier can spend two days converting his own forum, even mentioning babysitting a database conversion over-night, Yet, can't spend 20-30 minutes while bored watching that happen writing a new update announcement here.

And for those who say converting his own forum to XenForo means everything is OK, well is rubbish. I could also say, why didn't he wait until 1.2 is released soon? Why convert to the last version instead, that doesn't make sense to me "unless".

 

[Sadik B]

There have been many threads on this topic. Asking for status of development of Xenforo. Many have degenerated into this very same manner of incessant arguing. While Kier and Mike have every right to choose their intervals and subject matter of communication, it is in no way justifiable that customers should have to beg for information. Customers are not asking for them to release the next version of software immediately. They are not even asking them to post specific info about feature sets (forcing commitments). What would calm most people and provide assurance, if "some" information was given. A lot of people would not be as worried as they are today if these lawsuits did not exist. But the truth of the situation is that they do, so this compounds the problem. I cannot for the life of me understand as to what is the problem making a definitive post from the company "xenforo" account stating all is well, and development is ongoing and x / y etc are being done (just broad stuff, like mobile style, RM etc). This would once and for all (at least for a month or two) put an end to all this incessant and unnecessary arguing.

People who point to Kier's "Hello Again" thread, should understand that that was a sort of personal post from Kier. While we all greatly appreciate Kier and his work, our main concern is the software. And then people point to Mike's post about "Development is ongoing", which in itself was over a month ago (don't remember exactly) and if that is so, what's the problem posting the same thing in a more structured manner in the Announcement forum?

And lastly, why aren't all these threads being maintained better? Merge them and put a link in first post to Kier's and Mike's post, which contain some bit of information posted recently. Will the earth shatter beneath everyone's feet if that is done? People complain that there are so many threads on this topic... well if so, then merge them, or maintain one and close every other linking to that one thread. Is that also so difficult to do? If neither of this done, and if no official announcement is forthcoming then every tom, **** or harry who has a license and comes to the community after some time will ask this same question and they are absolutely justified in doing so.

And having said all that, I repeat what I said in my previous post, most people here (including those who are shouting a lot about lack of communication) wish KAM and Xenforo well and you only shout more when you care more...

 

[Floren]

But with all the information we do have available, its not beyond the realms of possibility that they simply don't have enough hours in the day at the moment and as such, I would like to think that simply giving them some space and room to manouver will be more beneficial than pestering for more answers as much as we all may want them.

I don't think is realistic what you just said. You are telling me that nobody in the development team cannot find 30 minutes every 2weeks/1month to post a development update, like it was done before?

There have been many threads on this topic. Asking for status of development of Xenforo. Many have degenerated into this very same manner of incessant arguing. While Kier and Mike have every right to choose their intervals and subject matter of communication, it is in no way justifiable that customers should have to beg for information.

Nobody is begging for information. Ultimately, is Kier and Mike's decision if they post updates or not. The same way is for new customers to chose another forum software because they think XenForo plans into too much incertitude. Such development updates will only eliminate these thoughts, but I guess you don't find this important. I do, I would much rather port a vBulletin forum to XenForo instead of IPB because of its potential.

 

[feldon30]

Floren,

If I were a moderator, I would have deleted half of your posts. Disrespectful, rude, personal attacks, and just plain non-constructive trolling for shock factor.

While I strongly believe that XenForo needs a Community Manager to address the issues you raise, the way you have raised them and taken digs at numerous other forum members is deplorable.

 

[Paul B]

And lastly, why aren't all these threads being maintained better? Merge them and put a link in first post to Kier's and Mike's post, which contain some bit of information posted recently. Will the earth shatter beneath everyone's feet if that is done?

I'm fairly sure that I would be severely criticised and castigated for merging several different threads by different authors on similar subjects.

I've given up trying to manage these threads now, no matter what I do someone will find fault with it.
So I let them run until they finally derail themselves or turn into tit-for-tat personal attacks at which point they are usually closed - not always by me.

For those on other forums criticising me (you know who you are), my remit here is fairly narrow; I am simply a moderator, who also chooses to provide support.
I most certainly am not a community manager; I haven't been asked to fulfil that role, nor do I have the position in the company to do so.

 

[Slavik]

I don't think is realistic what you just said. You are telling me that nobody in the development team cannot find 30 minutes every 2weeks/1month to post a development update, like it was done before?

Well the development team consists of 2 people.

One has already cited personal reasons for his lack of forum communication and not wanting to get fully involved until such time he is confident he can maintain his previous levels of activity.

The other has had additional claims filed against him in a massive lawsuit in a situation where by they already say that nearly every penny is being sucked into a litigation black hole, is answering support tickets (to what level I don't know, he may be days or even weeks backlogged with support tickets) as well as coding up the next MAJOR release of XenForo.

It's all very well and nice saying "just 30 minutes", but i'm guessing any official announcement probably takes closer to 2-3hours by the time its all done and dusted and ready for posting, anything shorter would litterally be the same as we already know "development is ongoing".

Dont get me wrong, I would love updates also, but im just playing devils advocate. The only ones who realy know whats going on is KAM... I doubt they are intentionally ignoring the cry for infomation.. it seems more conceiveable to me at least that they would want to focus on pushing the next major release out asap opposed to spending 2 hours writing up a post telling you that its coming.

And just to say, those making the biggest noise about the lack of information are in the minority, but its the same minority posting the same over and over again, the majority are just looking after their own boards happy to get updates as and when they come.

 

[Slavik]

I'm fairly sure that I would be severely criticised and castigated for merging several different threads by different authors on similar subjects.

I've given up trying to manage these threads now, no matter what I do someone will find fault with it.
So I let them run until they finally derail themselves or turn into tit-for-tat personal attacks at which point they are usually closed - not always by me.

For those on other forums criticising me (you know who you are), my remit here is fairly narrow; I am simply a moderator, who also chooses to provide support.
I most certainly am not a community manager; I haven't been asked to fulfil that role, nor do I have the position in the company to do so.

Most of us appreciate what you do Brogan But you know, its the same people over and over...

Chin up, you do a splendid job here no matter what anyone else says.

 

[Sadik B]

I'm fairly sure that I would be severely criticised and castigated for merging several different threads by different authors on similar subjects.

I've given up trying to manage these threads now, no matter what I do someone will find fault with it.
So I let them run until they finally derail themselves or turn into tit-for-tat personal attacks at which point they are usually closed - not always by me.

I don' envy your position... And truth be told, you as a Mod are one of the biggest assets of XF. Perhaps take the other route then? Start one thread yourself, link to Kier's and Mike's Posts in the first post and close all others with a link to this thread. On this one thread, then let people argue as much as they like and remove posts which are personal attacks. Next time some one starts similar thread again, close immediately with link to that thread...

Just a suggestion mate... Like I said, I don't envy you (Atm... Envy you greatly when you know more about upcoming features and say tantalizing things like "2 new features were coded today! )

 

[Floren]

If I were a moderator, I would have deleted half of your posts. Disrespectful, rude, personal attacks, and just plain non-constructive trolling for shock factor.

I agree that some of my posts were sharp like a knife. You probably noticed that each user who replied with unrelated aberrations got a piece of my boxing gloves. This was done in purpose, to mute those types of useless fanboysm comments which don't get us nowhere. What we need is "l'heure juste", not comments re-posted endless times that bring no clarity to current situation.

 

[Slavik]

Perhaps take the other route then? Start one thread yourself, link to Kier's and Mike's Posts in the first post

Hah,

You know I was just about to do this! Though yes it would probably be better if it came from Brogan than me...

 

[mrGTB]

I agree that some of my posts were sharp like a knife. You probably noticed that each user who replied with unrelated aberrations got a piece of my boxing gloves. This was done in purpose, to mute those types of useless fanboysm comments which don't get us nowhere.

No point arguing with them Floren, it will just get thread locked to suit them fine. That's why I ignore them all now in threads like this, don't play into their hands instead thinking about keeping the thread open.

 

[Syndol]

XenForo not providing answers/information is in itself an answer., Just not the one many of us want to hear.

 

[dieketzer]

i think the reason i am not worried about kiers silence is because that is how i have pretty much always known kier to be.
the frequent status updates of the past couple years were pretty out of character imo.