Thinking of selling your vB license? Don't.

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Sorry, but I don't get it either. But if it makes everyone feel good, go for it.
To me it makes as much sense as liking a cause on Facebook and feeling like you accomplished something at the end of the day.
For IB, it's 2 less dissidents to deal with.
 
Jamie said:
While I understand your morale and point, I myself wouldn't give a vB license to anyone.. not because I am being mean, but if I am going to help someone out like a non-profit that can't afford a license, then I would buy them a xF license.

Using your example, in my opinion... the food (vB) is already spoiled, so why give that away?



They may not really care now, but do you think they will stop at vB 4.0? Don't you think they will want to sell all the license owners an 'upgrade' to vB 5.0 or some other features or apps?

With vB having +/- 130,000 licenses out there every one that is 'canceled' without the ability to renew or sell will hurt and will make they earn your business if they ever want it again..

To kyrgyz: You are correct time will and has already started sorting it out, but that shouldn't stop people from canceling their account.. no harm in helping sort it our faster.. :)

Jamie
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Like I said, I agree with you guys in terms of sending a message out there.

But maybe you should be helping then by giving someone a XF license :p I mean someone out there is probably reading this thinking why? I can't afford one and could've used it, yet alone be able to buy XF or any other license too.

I've been there I know what it's like, which is why I moved here. But I think canceling has a purpose, but could be used for a better purpose.
 
FreshFroot said:
Like I said, I agree with you guys in terms of sending a message out there.
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Cool!

FreshFroot said:
But maybe you should be helping then by giving someone a XF license :p I mean someone out there is probably reading this thinking why? I can't afford one and could've used it, yet alone be able to buy XF or any other license too.
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If a non profit asked, I probably would.. an individual that needed a license because they couldn't afford it? Probably not.

FreshFroot said:
I've been there I know what it's like, which is why I moved here. But I think canceling has a purpose, but could be used for a better purpose.
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I think what these guys did serves the best purpose for this license in this case, but that's just my opinion.

Jamie
 
I'm snickering at the "stupid" remarks. The idea behind this stunt may be "stupid" to someone who doesn't have an educational background in business or finance.

I'll explain in simple English:

vBulletin, before being purchase by Internet Brands and being run into the ground (although you may see it differently; everyone has their own opinion), was used by many websites and many large companies used their software, as well as many 'big-boards' forums. When you have people migrating to another software because yours has been proven to be flawed and they ask you to terminate their licenses without refund (it isn't even possible with the current licensing agreement), vBulletin Solutions cannot claim all these people use their software - it would be misleading the customer AKA false-advertisement. IB is already in hot-water being sued left and right, so another series of bad press won't further their cause, whatever said cause may be.

I don't know what corporations use vB, if there are any at all, but I do know several 'big-boards' forums that switched to IPB or as of recent, XenForo. If these people asked for their licenses to also be terminated, it sends a big message to vBulletin Solutions. In effect, they cannot advertise that your community uses their software, they cannot claim fortune 500 companies use their software, or any large group that has a big name or big statistics.

When potential customers of vBulletin's software read into the mess it is and find threads like this where it's explained to them what people have been doing and for what reasons, they will not go with vBulletin, but another forum script, be it paid or free. Big names who terminate their license and cease to further deal with vBulletin Solutions effectively change the future revenue vBulletin Solutions is capable of generating. This is just a very basic glimpse at what this little event can do, it's all a chain-reaction. We've seen it many times in other industries, the software industry is no stranger to it.
 
OSS 117 said:
When you have people migrating to another software because yours has been proven to be flawed and they ask you to terminate their licenses without refund (it isn't even possible with the current licensing agreement), vBulletin Solutions cannot claim all these people use their software - it would be misleading the customer AKA false-advertisement.
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I agree on that. The rest doesn't make sense to me as vB license can be transfered. As far as sending a big message goes, it's a bit too late. At this point this act is more of a "getting even" nature. I don't see positivity in it, only "hatred", imho.
 
kyrgyz said:
The rest doesn't make sense to me...
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Try looking at it this way:

There is something called divestment. It was used as a tool to fight against and protest things like Apartheid in South Africa (some of you will have to look up "Apartheid," I realize, as it probably went on before many of you were born). Divestment meant that you took your money out of investments in the country because you disagreed with their policies. Some people did that on moral grounds, others for economic reasons. The businesses you are crippling by divestment bring political pressure to bear on their government. Maybe that's not positive, but it's effective. As an outsider, it's the best method you have of making a government sit up and pay attention.

This isn't about money or whether I think some big shot at IB gives a damn about what I do. It's about me not wanting to support a company whose actions run contrary to my personal beliefs. I had to divest myself of that license, and selling it would not have accomplished that.
 
A transfer isn't the same. It gets them a new customer, one that *might* invest into a license update in the future. Cancelling the license gets them nothing except (hopefully) some food for thoughts. It's like putting up a sign with a big red "hey, you screwed up badly and I completely disagree with the way you are doing business".

Seriously, if one of our customers would approach us in this way, effectively saying "here, you can have your crap back, stick it up to the place where the sun never shines and I'm not asking for anything in return", I would be worried. Very worried, because it's a very unusual step for a customer. And I guess, that's exactly the point of taking such action.
 
It's an interesting idea, but to be realistic things do change. It is possible that my vb licenses could end up being the leftovers of a closed company, or they may be the components of a new future relationship. Take a vb license completely out of circulation does seem like a way to cripple a company, but you were already a significant customer before you made the extra effort to cancel your license.

If things go as expected, IB will see that vb admin logins are reducing. This may potentially lead to a conclusion that active vbulletin licenses are progressively being used less.

In other words, you won't be able to "share the love" now that your license is cancelled.
 
Ok, guys. I guess I am looking at this situation through a different spectrum. Not into torching land. I'd rather have some greenery left. Good luck.
 
There is no right or wrong, and people should not be trying to argue either... What Michael has done is what suits Michael... what each of us do is our own decision uniquely... so I think people should just respect one anothers decision vs. calling them stupid or such. What is stupid to me is not to another, may be to the next person, may not the next 10 people.
 
Since selling my last license off a while back... I've forgotten what VB even looked like, and its disappeared now from my browser of recent visited sites.
 
While I admire what Michael & Shelley did, I could not afford to do it. So I am in the process of selling mine so I can afford to purchase a second copy of XF. If I didn't sell, I can't make that purchase.
 
kyrgyz said:
I agree on that. The rest doesn't make sense to me as vB license can be transfered. As far as sending a big message goes, it's a bit too late. At this point this act is more of a "getting even" nature. I don't see positivity in it, only "hatred", imho.
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What would the point be in transferring a license? Your post is non-sequitur post.

I don't see it as getting even. The history of the business industry doesn't see it as getting even, so I really can't comprehend where you're getting at. Like I said, it's hard for people who've never had any formal education on business or finances to understand. To someone who hasn't, it sounds "out of the box". You could apply the not understanding theory to a multitude of subjects.
 
motowebmaster said:
It's an interesting idea, but to be realistic things do change. It is possible that my vb licenses could end up being the leftovers of a closed company, or they may be the components of a new future relationship. Take a vb license completely out of circulation does seem like a way to cripple a company, but you were already a significant customer before you made the extra effort to cancel your license.

If things go as expected, IB will see that vb admin logins are reducing. This may potentially lead to a conclusion that active vbulletin licenses are progressively being used less.

In other words, you won't be able to "share the love" now that your license is cancelled.
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Look at it this way. When you're an active customer paying your dues, you and others generate revenue. If you take yourself and others out of the equation, you kill any monetary revenue from that moment onward. Only the past revenue is there to fund them, once the money finishes, what will they do?
 
The following is not my own opinion, but of a vB member wanting to reply.

Please do not shoot me, I do not entirly support this opinion.

Just wanted to bring it to attention to create a further debate.

Shoot LeadCrow from vB.

That logic would work with physical objects, not virtual licence numbers (wich cost nothing to generate, dont require algorythms to be generated, and are infinite).Licences not used have the exact same effect. This does not hurt IB at all, while refunds take money out their coffers (that you could spend to invest in another board, or buy a buddy another board, wich would be much more productive actions than pulling childish tantrums like this).

There are over 100.000 licences out there. The biggest effect the new pricing wouldve had is hugely increase the used market size, thereby reducing new licence sales. If youre not transferring your used licence, keeping it or selling it, rest assured one will still be bought from the next seller.

The used market is what hurts IB, especially sale of v4 licences (since no revenue or fee will go to IB till v5 is out and IF users DO upgrade). People who go after used licences are strongly after vB, and actions like this would not pry them away from it.
Cancelling licences is just getting them suspended, thats all. Nothing new. You could just flame staff in private for the same effect if you want it the harder, more heroic way it would just take more time and test their patience till they break, since they probably are instructed to be patient with highly negative people).

So its pretty stupid of those people. I see fighting for the biggest, craziest fanboy leaderboard has gotten fiercer.

I wonder who will first think of writing "vbulletin sucks" with smoke in the sky, parachute jump as a group forming the XF initials, hanging xenforo logo/Kier photos in their marriage celebrations, tatooing brogan's face in their chests...

Nothing would surprise me anymore. People like this are ones that would easily misbehave and troll the customer forum just to rub their own ego and display themselves to the world as oppressed martyrs.
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OSS 117 said:
What would the point be in transferring a license? Your post is non-sequitur post.
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Reread your own post:
OSS 117 said:
If these people asked for their licenses to also be terminated, it sends a big message to vBulletin Solutions. In effect, they cannot advertise that your community uses their software, they cannot claim fortune 500 companies use their software, or any large group that has a big name or big statistics.
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The same results can be achieved by transferring a license. vB cannot claim some big corporation is using its software as ownership changes when license is transfered. Still non-sequitur?

OSS 117 said:
I don't see it as getting even. The history of the business industry doesn't see it as getting even, so I really can't comprehend where you're getting at.
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Sending a message is all good. Trying to sink vB because your business suffered is understandable. That's what I call "getting even". Beyond that I just don't see logic in it. Most businesses will try to recoup money and reinvest it if the assets they are trying to get rid of have some value. Clearly vB can be sold for some $$.
 
kyrgyz said:
Reread your own post:

The same results can be achieved by transferring a license. vB cannot claim some big corporation is using its software as ownership changes when license is transfered. Get it?

Most businesses will try to recoup money and reinvest it if the product they are trying to get rid of has some value. Clearly vB can be sold for some $$. If you can't understand that, reread Elizabeth's commonsense post above. Maybe "getting even" is too strong of a word. But that's the way I see it.


;)
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Minimal difference at best. You still retain an active customer. You may lose a "big name", but you retain the income for that license #.

Once the ball gets rolling, who in their right mind would pay $80-150 for a license that will put them at a jam? There is no benefit for the end-user. Elizabeth is able to sell now before the situation worsens. vB has made their money, but they will not make as much money with vB 5 as they did with vB 3. And the direction IB is heading, I sincerely doubt they'll be the owners of vB then.

I again have reiterated my post twice for you to read. You quoted and merely posted a generic response which was answered in my last 2 posts. Yes, they've made money, they will make much less money in the future. There's no reason to ;) at me when it was addressed here:


OSS 117 said:
Look at it this way. When you're an active customer paying your dues, you and others generate revenue. If you take yourself and others out of the equation, you kill any monetary revenue from that moment onward. Only the past revenue is there to fund them, once the money finishes, what will they do?
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Simple English:

Say vB 4 sold full price at $195* to 6,000 customers. That doesn't include the optional email and phone support at $80. The total would be $1,170,000 gross.

* I'm not using an pre-sale statistics here.


Great for IB (Although I'm sure they sold less than 5K licenses for vB 4.)

People stopped using their licenses after they realized that vB wasn't good. A hefty chunk went to IPS for software.

IB have taken their revenue. Now vB 5 comes out in, say 15 months from now. And more people leave vB for XF or IP.Board.

Say IB charges the same $195 dollar model (I'm sure it'll be more.)

But this time only 650 customers purchase it, because it's getting there, slowly but surely.

$195 x 650 = $126,750 gross.

See how it affects them? They've lost major revenue.

Customers who wish to not sell their license because they either:

A) Don't care about the money it cost them.

B) Find it hard to find someone else who wants to share the pain of running a vB forum.

C) They can afford XF or IP.Board without having to sell.

They can choose to terminate/suspend their license indefinitely. No more return customers, a lot less new customers, and less revenue which still hasn't been taxed and divided among the developers and support staff.

People complained, people left their licenses and went to other companies, mostly IPB. I've seen, in the last year, used licenses go from about $180, now to full suites being sold for less than $115, and these are legitimate licenses. The more time that passes, the lesser the value it holds. Therein lies the problem with your argument. If you want XF, I recommend selling your vB licenses if you cannot afford XF without doing so. If you can afford it, and want to ensure no one else falls into this sticky mess, ask for your license to be terminated.
 
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