Implemented The position of key buttons next to the breadcrumb

[Grover]

I am gonna to have a break from XenForo in the time to come. I just want to put the following in the limelight, because I feel it is or will become an issue when using XenForo. I think XenForo is (almost) perfect when it comes to the UI/UX, but I feel this could need some attention before XF becomes Gold.

I am talking about the position of key buttons like [Post New Thread] or [Search Threads and Posts] next to the breadcrumb. I believe this is a fundamentally wrong position and I will show why I think that.

[Search Threads and Posts]
First, there is this example about the [Search Threads and Posts]-button:
http://xenforo.com/community/thread...ics.2082/#post-30259

The [Search Threads and Posts] button there is more or less unrecognizable as a button that should be pressed to get more search options. It gets overlooked, very understandably, by endusers. To prevent it from being overlooked, it has to be put more into the viewpoint of the enduser. And that means... as close to the information-area as possible, there where the eye-focus of the enduser is. Meaning: in the center of the screen (right above the search input fields for example), not somewhere in a corner where it is not visible/clear/intuitive enough.

[Post New Thread]
The same problem occurs when users need to post a New Thread, as pointed out by Shanj in the following discussion where a visual example is posted in:
http://xenforo.com/community/thread...ead.2538/#post-41403

Needless to say that this can become obviously problematic. I don't know how XenForo displays multiple subforums underneath each other, but I could imagine it would be like this:

I believe a good UI should make it as easy/intuitive as possible to post a thread. Posting threads is THE BASIS of forums in the first place. That's why I find it a bit remarkable that XenForo puts the KEY button for this in a really counter-productive and non-intuitive position. A button with such an importance should be placed right there where the focus of the endusers-eye is, the moment he/she wants to post a new thread. And that is as near to the existing threadtitles as possible.

Those are my last constructive suggestions I will put out for a while (XF is near perfect in it's UI/UX for me). Hopefully M&K can share a part of this vision and re-think a bit the positions of those key buttons. I believe it will make XF better.

Keep up the good work (developers + community) and see you again after XF Gold's release!

Grover.

Please do [like] this first posting if you think it is a good feature suggestion for XenForo

 

[Kier]

I kinda like that, but now the button is wrong - you need a submit button there, not a call to action.

 

[Grover]

I was just now reading khurt's post and the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.... why even have the Reply to Thread button at all? There is a Reply link in every single post, there's the quick reply at the bottom... Everyone should be able to find these easily. That big button is nothing but unnecessary clutter, might even make it more confusing for newbies... I say drop the damn thing and stop worrying about it. XF doesn't need old methods, it needs innovation and daring decisions.

Wholeheartedly supported! I totally agree that the [Reply to Thread] not only is really positioned wrongly, but in fact... totally unnecessary indeed! Who is ever going to use it when we have a reply link on every single posting indeed and the quick reply at hand! Redundant, isn't it?. I never ever clicked it on XenForo, so why provide it in the first place? Or maybe I miss an obvious or hidden reason why it needs to be there?

 

[Grover]

What about this

View attachment 3169

Wow! Now, that is what I call creative and innovate thinking! I am impressed .

(Also the way you positioned the button makes so much more sense then to put it at the far end of the breadcrumb outside of the context of the threadlist, resulting in issues like these: http://xenforo.com/community/attachments/wrong-position-of-key-buttons-in-xf-png.1405/?embedded=1. Your idea together with the ones suggested here totally get rid of the buttons oddly placed next to the breadcrumb and this is -for me- really the way to go.)

(And also... since you now indeed need a [Submit] button there is no need anymore for a [Post New Thread]-button... so there is also no need to make this button look/design the (rather visible) way it is now. This (renamed as 'Submit' or something) will do I guess:



... making it blend in with the overall style really well)

(edit... also your idea stimulates people to post new discussions (I passionately hate the word 'threads', but that's another discussion (thread), just like the Quick Reply Box on threads does with the great concept of the users Avatar being shown there in front of the QR. The same concept is represented by your idea for [Post New Thread]. Great. If this ever becomes a practical implementation (it could be tried for a while just to see how it will work out), I say it's daring refreshing. Really, is there any forum product out there who does not present the end user with a button [Post New Thread/Topic]?)

I love your mockup! What a refreshing concept! I think it should be investigated to see how it works out!

 

[erich37]

I remember I nearly got killed here back in July or August (on the very early days) when I suggested to remove the button for "Reply to Thread" at the top-right.

It´s a pity I can not find my suggestion from the past anymore.......

If I remember correctly, I suggested to replace the button "Reply to Thread" with the button "Post New Thread" (for the top-right-position).......

 

[Grover]

And thanks to everybody who supported [Liked] my idea of Tabs: appreciated!

 

[Grover]

One of the great things about the quick reply is that it makes it unnecessary to have a big, flashy "post reply" button at all. The quick reply area essentially takes the place of the button and it's pretty hard to miss. So, I think the issue isn't so much about the "reply to thread" button as it is the "post new thread" button. Sooo, if you apply a quick reply type method for creating a new thread from the thread list, you minimize the importance of the button. It would no longer matter where the button is or even if it's included at all.

I was just now reading khurt's post and the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.... why even have the Reply to Thread button at all? There is a Reply link in every single post, there's the quick reply at the bottom... Everyone should be able to find these easily. That big button is nothing but unnecessary clutter, might even make it more confusing for newbies... I say drop the damn thing and stop worrying about it. XF doesn't need old methods, it needs innovation and daring decisions.

Wholeheartedly supported! I totally agree that the [Reply to Thread] not only is really positioned wrongly, but in fact... totally unnecessary indeed! Who is ever going to use it when we have a reply link on every single posting indeed and the quick reply at hand! Redundant, isn't it?. I never ever clicked it on XenForo, so why provide it in the first place? Or maybe I miss an obvious or hidden reason why it needs to be there?

Just think about it. How does an end user's proces work? Right... when you start reading a thread and it's postings you either read the whole damn thread and reply directly in the Quick Reply box or... you see an interesting posting and decide to click on the 'Reply' link in that particular posting to reply (you are transported to the QR box with a convenient quote of the posting). Here it comes: who on earth is going to scroll all the way up to the top of screen during that process to find the [Reply to Thread] button stuck away in the upper right corner and press that! It just is not logical at all from the enduser reading/posting process, is it? So why have it in the first place?

 

[erich37]

Grover,
I think you misunderstood khurt´s saying ?
He is actually saying that the "Reply to Thread"-button can be dismissed.

But what he is saying: Where to put the "Post new Thread"-button ?
Hence the posted a mockup having the editor at the bottom of the thread-list for posting a new thread.

 

[Grover]

Grover,
I think you misunderstood khurt´s saying ?
He is also saying the the "Reply to Thread"-button can be dismissed.

Yes, that button should be dismissed. It's doesn't provide any logical value, does it?

But what he is saying: Where to put the "Post new Thread"-button ?

Yes, that is the question, isn't it? I mean... it is very simple in my eyes: I never liked those button next to the breadcrumbs, because they shouldn't be there in the first place. We do not need a button for [Search Threads and Posts] (make it a [Tab] please) and we don't need a button for [Reply to Thread]. We only need 1 single button for [Post New Thread] and in it's current state that one is fundamentally positioned wrong. But I have made my point now very clearly, so I will wait what solution K&M decide to come up with. Hopefully they share our vision!

 

[Kier]

Let me jump in here.

Firstly, the [Search Threads and Posts] button has always been intended to be temporary. I'm sure I've stated this before somewhere... and if not, I'm stating it now. The intention has always been to go with a tabbed UI for search.

Secondly, when we started out, there was no [Reply to Thread] button. It was added because various people lost their minds when it wasn't in the place they expected it to be, they couldn't get to grips with the idea of using the individual Reply links attached to each message.

Thirdly, I get that some people disagree with the placement of the [Post New Thread] button. I understood you the first time!

 

[erich37]

Grover, your posts are somewhat repetitive

 

[Paul B]

Secondly, when we started out, there was no [Reply to Thread] button. It was added because various people lost their minds when it wasn't in the place they expected it to be, they couldn't get to grips with the idea of using the individual Reply links attached to each message.

You should go with what you feel is best and fits in with the overall design philosophy.
If that means no standard [Reply to Thread] button then so be it.

I've made a fair few posts on here and haven't clicked it once.

 

[erich37]

...... because various people lost their minds when it wasn't in the place they expected it to be

probably hard for many webmasters to "think out of the (vB) box" when they lived within this box for many many years......

 

[erich37]

already much better, Kier.... with the removal of the "Reply to Thread"-button.
This also makes the triangle for "open quick navigation" better visible.

 

[Dean]

You should go with what you feel is best and fits in with the overall design philosophy.
.

I like this approach.

Thanks for removing the reply to thread button.

 

[Grover]

Grover, your posts are somewhat repetitive

Ha! I know Kier 'likes' my extended ramblings . When I am so convinced of something, yes I find myself in repeat mode indeed, more times then less. Maybe another personal development training will do me good (I am leaving today!) . However, having said that... it does indeed really help if clarity like this is given:

Let me jump in here.

Firstly, the [Search Threads and Posts] button has always been intended to be temporary. I'm sure I've stated this before somewhere... and if not, I'm stating it now. The intention has always been to go with a tabbed UI for search.

Secondly, when we started out, there was no [Reply to Thread] button. It was added because various people lost their minds when it wasn't in the place they expected it to be, they couldn't get to grips with the idea of using the individual Reply links attached to each message.

Thirdly, I get that some people disagree with the placement of the [Post New Thread] button. I understood you the first time!

... which all by itself makes any repeating/nitpicking on our side completely redundant. Obviously, nobody expects the developers to chime in like this on every single suggestion.

I never read anywhere on the forums that 'the [Search Threads and Posts] button has always been intended to be temporary'. The same goes for 'The intention has always been to go with a tabbed UI for search', really. Knowing this beforehand, this whole thread would not have been necessary . But... we know it just now, so the thread has served it's purpose.

Interesting to read that the [Reply to Thread] was not there from the start and that people found that confusing. Remarkable when you read the user-posting-process I have written down here. It's a bit hard for me to grasp that there are people who actually miss that button, because that means that in the middle (or at the end for that matter) of reading a thread/post people apparently want to scroll all the way up again to the top of the thread to search for this button in the upper right corner. A bit puzzling to me. Thanks for listening and removing it. Curious to find out how those people will like it and if it works for them now this way (if it doesn't it can always be put back somewhere to the left side (away from the breadcrumb, but closer to the thread title) of the screen, I guess).

But thanks for all this information, appreciated. Case closed .

 

[Grover]

I've added something to this post. Really interesting this concept that dutchb has posted.

 

[dutchbb]

Thanks for finding the idea interesting Grover (and others). As you may have read here I didn't have a problem with the way it was done that much (Post New Thread button next to breadcrumb) my mockup was merely meant to serve as an alternative to khurt's post/idea. However I can imagine some might find it too bulky having a text field above that thread list. Ultimately we are here to give our 2 cents and we leave the decisions to the pros. And so far, for me they've made all the right choices, so I trust them in that.

 

[Shelley]

probably hard for many webmasters to "think out of the (vB) box" when they lived within this box for many many years......

My thinking also. I've seen many times that we all want something different from vb but then suggest features, placements and even structure the same. Once the mindset has escaped our previous housing solution the sooner we can embrace the new innovative, creative ways of suggesting, discussing and finally implementing features and many other solutions. Once we all climb out of that evil box the better off we all will be with a fresh mindset, way of thinking.

 

[erich37]

Thanks for finding the idea interesting Grover (and others). As you may have read here I didn't have a problem with the way it was done that much (Post New Thread button next to breadcrumb) my mockup was merely meant to serve as an alternative to khurt's post/idea. However I can imagine some might find it too bulky having a text field above that thread list. Ultimately we are here to give our 2 cents and we leave the decisions to the pros. And so far, for me they've made all the right choices, so I trust them in that.

I assumed your mockup was a joke ?
I like the one from "khurt" better"

 

[dutchbb]

I assumed your mockup was a joke.......
[No Thanks] if this was meant seriously.

It wasn't really a joke, it was an alternative for a possible modification/add-on. Calling it a joke could be seen as an offensive statement (although I'm sure you didn't mean it like that). Maybe it was the grin smilie that made it seem like a joke (the smilie was just to say: look at this daring thing!). But looking at the likes I got from just the ones that saw it, not everyone seems to agree with that 'no thanks'