Duplicate [Suggestion] Dis - Like

dieketzer

Well-known member
#41
everyone is assuming admin-defined buttons would have to be 'dislike'. they wouldnt though, they could be 'hug', 'laugh', 'agree', or any other carebear thing you can think of. in any case, why would anyone here care if i did have a dislike button on my board?
i suppose i just dont understand the resistance to having options beyond the stale 'like'. does everyone really have such little faith in each others abilities to admin their own boards?
 

Ryan

Well-known member
#42
'Communties get addicted to these buttons'? :confused:. This (negative addiction/misuse of) is precisely the reason why a 'dis-like' button should never be part of a core product in the first place. I want to create a platform where people feel welcome. I mean... it is very simple: take Facebook.... do you get a message if someone breaks the friendship with you there? No. You could see this as a 'dislike' can't you? Someone -for whatever reason- decided to quit the Friendship and imagine what would happen if people actually get a message when someone breaks friendship with them... There is a REASON why Facebook doesn't do this! So, how would people feel if they get an alert that a member or multiple members dislike their postings? Obviously people are going to take it personally, and this is very understandable/logical.
The Facebook comparisons irk me. As others have already pointed out, this is not Facebook. Facebook is a single instance of a single platform run by a single company. XF is anything but that. XF is (rather, will be) forum software sold to the masses and licensed to thousands of forum owners for who knows what purpose. This idea of the developers not including a feature because they feel that their customers don't have enough common sense to use it appropriately...that idea scares me. That's like not including mass email functionality because the developers are afraid their customers will spam their members. Include the features that enough people will want (and believe me, enough people will want this "Dislike" functionality), and give your customers the ability to use it how they wish, not how you wish.

vB and IPB both include the ability to "Dislike"...Go ahead, yell out me for comparing XF to vB or IPB...but whatever you say, it's a heck of a better comparison than Facebook.

Yes, dictating. I chose my words very wisely and meant them.

i suppose i just dont understand the resistance to having options beyond the stale 'like'. does everyone really have such little faith in each others abilities to admin their own boards?
Amen
 
#43
The Facebook comparisons irk me. As others have already pointed out, this is not Facebook. Facebook is a single instance of a single platform run by a single company. XF is anything but that. XF is (rather, will be) forum software sold to the masses and licensed to thousands of forum owners for who knows what purpose. This idea of the developers not including a feature because they feel that their customers don't have enough common sense to use it appropriately...that idea scares me. That's like not including mass email functionality because the developers are afraid their customers will spam their members. Include the features that enough people will want (and believe me, enough people will want this "Dislike" functionality), and give your customers the ability to use it how they wish, not how you wish.

vB and IPB both include the ability to "Dislike"...Go ahead, yell out me for comparing XF to vB or IPB...but whatever you say, it's a heck of a better comparison than Facebook.



Yes, dictating. I chose my words very wisely and meant them.



Amen
vBulletin has the option to dislike a post?
 

Kier

XenForo developer
Staff member
#46
Yes, they just call it "Reputation". It's the exact same concept.
The reputation system requires a comment thats is addressed directly to the content author. It is not the blunt instrument that 'Dislike' would be.
 

John

Well-known member
#48
I agree with the choice of the developers to leave this out (sorry Ryan ;) ). There are many things that can, and most likely will, be added that enhance and encourage a positive community environment...I think energies need to be focused on that direction above all else. Just my 0.02 :)
 

Peggy

Well-known member
#49
I agree with the choice of the developers to leave this out (sorry Ryan ;) ). There are many things that can, and most likely will, be added that enhance and encourage a positive community environment...I think energies need to be focused on that direction above all else. Just my 0.02 :)
So do I.
 

Peggy

Well-known member
#50
/me shakes head in amazement
I don't know why you're so amazed. Kier feels very strongly about this, as do I and many others.

It is on a developers shoulders to go through suggestions and filter out the ones that he feels are valuable and those that he feels would be detrimental. It has absolutely nothing to do with dictatorship and everything to do with making a wise decision.
 

Ryan

Well-known member
#51
I was shaking my head at Kier's last response. His rebuttle to the vB/IPB comparison was laughable. He thinks that vB's negative reputation is acceptable because it requires somebody to leave a comment (a period "." is enough) when they leave negative rep. Somehow in Kier's eyes, that makes it acceptable to disapprove of a post. I've seen enough negative reputation comments in my life to know that rarely is there anything useful in them. FYI, IPB does not require any sort of comment when leaving negative rep ;) vB and IPB both offer "Dislike" functionality. I don't know if the free forum software providers do because I'm not familiar with them. All I know is that XF's 2 largest competitors do, and they do for good reason.

Kier himself admitted that a Dislike mod would, in all likelihood, be one of the first major mods created for XF. Knowing that, he still refuses to include the functionality. His sole reasoning on this is that he doesn't think that it is appropriate in a forum. Nevermind the thousands of forum owners who will be purchasing his product. He doesn't know their intentions. IPS and Jelsoft understand the concept of providing their customers with options. And no, this is not just a useless option that's going to add more bloat. It's very small functionality on an already existing feature-set. If Kier and Mike continue to make emotional rather than practical decisions with the software, it will do nothing but drive customers away. This is one of those decisions.
 

Peggy

Well-known member
#52
If they keep making emotional decisions? Have they made another decision that you would label emotional?

Personally, I don't see this as an emotional decision. I see it as one practical, business decision. One that is hardly about to drive many customers away.
 

Dream

Active member
#54
Personally if there's a mod that adds a dislike button (a properly made one) it's good for me. I just worry about how tied to the rest of the system such mod would be.
 

Grover

Well-known member
#56
The Facebook comparisons irk me. As others have already pointed out, this is not Facebook. Facebook is a single instance of a single platform run by a single company. XF is anything but that. XF is (rather, will be) forum software sold to the masses and licensed to thousands of forum owners for who knows what purpose. This idea of the developers not including a feature because they feel that their customers don't have enough common sense to use it appropriately...that idea scares me. That's like not including mass email functionality because the developers are afraid their customers will spam their members. Include the features that enough people will want (and believe me, enough people will want this "Dislike" functionality), and give your customers the ability to use it how they wish, not how you wish.

vB and IPB both include the ability to "Dislike"...Go ahead, yell out me for comparing XF to vB or IPB...but whatever you say, it's a heck of a better comparison than Facebook.
I get your point about Facebook being run by a single company and the difference in that compared to XenForo. If you look at it from that point of view I can understand better where you are coming from. However, it is not about what comparison is 'a heck of better' as you've put it: the reason why I made the comparison is the psychological reason behind FB's omission of a 'dislike' button. I understand XenForo is distributed to the masses (I dearly hope it will be masses and masses!) but that still doesn't outweigh the point (illustrated by my comparison) I am making. The reason not to include it is based on wisdom and has really nothing at all to do with dictatorship, which I find a rather strong word to use for a common sense decision like this.

Again, it is very simple and no reason to put so much weight upon. I see it like this: XenForo wants to present itself as a (I would say: the) forum platform that is socially focused. Everything oozes this when you use XenForo. Including a dis-like button by default would simply not be in line with that goal. That is all.

does everyone really have such little faith in each others abilities to admin their own boards?
Why take/make it so personal? It has nothing to do with anyones abilities. This is a feature that has a big potential to uproar the social aim of your network. That is just a fact. So why include this in a social package by default? I totally understand the reasoning behind it. I also understand that people do want/need it, for their own good reasons. But XenForo is about a vision, that has been made perfectly clear by now the last 3 weeks. If you need something that doesn't fit into this vision, it offers you the option to extend it's functionality by using Plugins. So you still get what you want.
 
#57
XenForo is about a vision, that has been made perfectly clear by now the last 3 weeks. If you need something that doesn't fit into this vision, it offers you the option to extend it's functionality by using Plugins. So you still get what you want.
Can i say it better? I think not :)
 

Enigma

Well-known member
#58
I honestly don't see a problem with adding "dislike" functionality, leaving it off by default, and letting admins decide how they want to run their boards. You could also build in things like requiring a short message along with a "dislike" or maybe throttle "disliking" posts in some way—total number of dislikes per day, or dislikes cannot be more than 50% of your total likes (if you've liked 10 posts total, you can dislike a max of 5).

I think there are many legitimate uses for the like/dislike, up/down, +/- paradigm.

Building the functionality in, rather than having it as a mod, would be desirous for stability, support and overall integration with the product.

Just my $0.02.
 

Peggy

Well-known member
#59
Ok well, we all know, by Kier's post above, that this function will not be added, at least not in the near future, if at all.
 

Ryan

Well-known member
#60
As far as this being "philosophy" or a "vision", there is no argument for that. It's like playing the "Because I said so" card. You can call it whatever you want, whether philosophy, vision, or emotion (as I called it earlier), but it doesn't make business sense, that's all.

When all is said and done, as I've said before, I wouldn't personally use Dislike functionality in my forums. In fact, I don't even know if I'd ever use XF for my own community. My interest is in creating skins for XF and making some of my own money off of XF's riches. For this reason, I want XF to be as successful as possible. It's my opinion that including a half-baked feature (Like but no Dislike) does not benefit the XenForo package at all. Does it make Kier and Mike sleep better at night? Maybe, I don't know what goes on in their heads. I do know their bank accounts won't be quite as large without it. And no, I don't think that a single feature as small as this will ever make or break a XF sale, but it is the accumulation of this and similar other missing elements that do determine which software people go with.

Yes, a Like but no Dislike is a half-baked feature. Potential customers will have this in front of them:

vB: Positive and Negative Rep
IPB: Positive and Negative Rep
XF: Like

Potential customers have the option of enabling Positive & Negative rep with IPB or vB, but they are not even given that option with XF. This simple fact does absolutely nothing to benefit XF, I promise you.

"If you want Dislike, then add it as a plugin" is also not a valid answer.

Anyways, I've had my say here. I'm quite tired of saying the same thing over and over again when all I get in response is "Dislikes hurt people's feelings and it gets in the way of the vision of XF". I have a vested interest in the success of XF, not necessarily the feature-set. There have been a few times in these forums when I've seen something that was really concerning to me about XF's future, and I've yelled about it. Sometimes you can't scream loud enough in this forum to be heard over all of the fanboy buzz. I've seen this same criticism all over the web in other forums discussing XF.
 
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