Some upcoming changes for 8WAYRUN Addons!

[Jaxel]

Alright, so you guys know me... I refactor my code all the time, I'm a true believer in dog-fooding and I hate giving support for addons I already give out for free. You may have noticed that my last few releases have been "premium"; addons I charge for, and for which I give full support.

During the past few months and with my work on XenTorneo and XenRio, I've discovered so much about how XenForo's coding platform works and how to make my programs better. When I first started working on XenForo, I was completely new to object oriented design, as I come from a procedural background.

I still write my code in a more procedural format (hell, I still don't understand what MCV means), but I like to think my code has gotten a lot better. All you need to do is look at XenRio or XenTorneo on my website and see how much faster those pages load versus other pages on my site.

However, a lot of the addons I've written were written back when I was still a ****ty programmer. For instance, XenCarta was written in FOUR DAYS after the release of XenForo (it was originally part of XenPorta). How well programmed can a wiki be thats written in four days? While I've done my best to make the front-ends of my work as clean and aesthetic as possible, I sometimes look back at my code and facepalm.

Since I'm a true believer in dog-fooding I look back at my code and think "my website can be so much better than this". And since I'm okay with the idea of refactoring, I often think "yeah, its time to rewrite this". So thats where I'm at. I'm looking back at some of my old work and saying "yeah, its time for an update".

But this kind of work takes time, and time is money. So I've made a decision. My addons as they stand now will remain free; and with that, they will continue with the level of support I've been giving to them, given their "free" nature: none. However, I plan on rewriting many of them in order to boost performance and design. The rewrites will not be free; however, because the rewrites will not be free, I will be giving full support for them, the same way I've been supporting my other premium addons.

For instance:
XenCarta 1.3.9 = FREE, unsupported, will be receiving updates for security fixes only
XenCarta 1.5.0 = $$$, fully supported, will be receiving all future updates

 

[RobParker]

Any plans for a paid version of xenporta?

 

[Jaxel]

Any plans for a paid version of xenporta?

I'm thinking XenPorta would remain free, even after a refactor... but I haven't decided yet.

 

[System0]

I'm thinking XenPorta would remain free, even after a refactor... but I haven't decided yet.

I'd welcome a premium version of XenPorta.

 

[Sage Knight]

if it means more features and better performance I am totally in favour of this decision and will support it.

Your addons certainly made a lot of forum owners migration decisions easier. Thanks for all the work and great addons.

 

[taylor_smith]

Support.

 

[Shelley]

I don't have a use for your add-ons but i am a strong believer if a developer puts in the time and effort to build an add-on they have the right to charge for it. Good on you and about time.

 

[DRE]

Who says you have to support paid addons?

 

[Adam Howard]

Mixed thoughts.

I'm kind of keen on balance. I'm one of those people who likes free add-ons, but does not appose paid add-on... Sometimes a developer has put in a lot of work and effort and the cost of an add-on is justified.

But again... back to balance.... I like to know that at least 1/2 of the more important, useful, and popular add-ons within a community are free (Overall). This leaves the other 1/2 open to paid (respectfully).

I see XenForo (the community at large) starting to shift that balance (at least a hint to it). That concerns me a little. I'm keeping an eye on it.

Jaxel, I've not seen you keep up with your add-ons. And I judge people from the basics before going into paid development.... You need to learn to walk before you swim. Adding a dollar sign doesn't convince me that things will be better.

I'm not saying I wouldn't ever purchase an add-on from you.... I'm saying, I'd first watch other people spend money on you and see how well it goes for them.... Before I considered it (at this time).

 

[0xym0r0n]

I'd pay $60+yearly renewals but I decided I can't justify $200 on an add-on like xentorneo, which I was heavily considering. I know how awesome it is... I know why it is priced that way, but I just can't. Right now, my sites are more hobby, because they don't make me money. (which i think a fair amount of us are not making any money on our sites)

Then again this high price makes it almost a guarantee that not EVERYONE will have it. It helps your forum rise above the rest if you can drop the money.

If you bundled your add-ons I'd be willing to pay 100-300
Of course things like xenmedio premium would still be additional.
These add-ons need attention and attention requires time. Time is money and I understand that.


In short I'm asking for reasonable prices. I know everyone has a different definition of reasonable but again my limit is around $60 up front and $30/yr for renewals. I might pay $200 if it was 'lifetime' sort of deal, but it's still a lot up front.

 

[craigiri]

I was going to ask once why you give away stuff like Xencarta - but I kept my mouth closed.....


It should cost something so you can make enough to not feel bad when answering questions....

And, yeah, maybe keep the free one free and let others update it.....it's nice to have a free wiki for a hobby or community site...

Good Luck and I hope Xencarta is first on the list!

 

[BGL]

I'd pay $60+yearly renewals but I decided I can't justify $200 on an add-on like xentorneo, which I was heavily considering. I know how awesome it is... I know why it is priced that way, but I just can't. Right now, my sites are more hobby, because they don't make me money.

My site's a hobby site but I pay for add-ons and support for add-ons. What we do with our sites is immaterial to folks using their time and skills to create stuff and getting fairly compensated for it if we use it.

 

[TheBigK]

I'd happily go with a premium version of XenPorta and XenAtendo (/Rio), if you offer support. I look forward to refactored XenPorta - it's one of the best add-ons we've on the site. But allow clean upgrade from existing versions.

 

[craigiri]

When and where can we offer suggestions?

XC would be great if it could automatically upgrade the BBcode abilities of XF (maybe bundle in some of the existing common licensed add-ons?)....and therefore XC could do image captions and maybe the holy grails like text flow around them, etc.

But at least the basics of image captioning and other widely used bbcodes "stock" would be great.

 

[Jaxel]

So I've been reworking a lot of XenCarta today... I want you guys to check it out and see how much faster it loads... I've just emptied the page cache, so some pages will take a long time to load on first load, but then after that, they will load super fast.

When I used VaultWiki, this page took 40 seconds to load on every page load, due to the amount of template calls in it... Now the page only took 3 seconds to build the cache, and each subsequent page load only takes 0.1 seconds:

http://8wayrun.com/wiki/yoshimitsu-frame-data-sc4/

 

[STORMS]

Mixed thoughts.

I'm kind of keen on balance. I'm one of those people who likes free add-ons, but does not appose paid add-on... Sometimes a developer has put in a lot of work and effort and the cost of an add-on is justified.

But again... back to balance.... I like to know that at least 1/2 of the more important, useful, and popular add-ons within a community are free (Overall). This leaves the other 1/2 open to paid (respectfully).

I see XenForo (the community at large) starting to shift that balance (at least a hint to it). That concerns me a little. I'm keeping an eye on it.

Jaxel, I've not seen you keep up with your add-ons. And I judge people from the basics before going into paid development.... You need to learn to walk before you swim. Adding a dollar sign doesn't convince me that things will be better.

I'm not saying I wouldn't ever purchase an add-on from you.... I'm saying, I'd first watch other people spend money on you and see how well it goes for them.... Before I considered it (at this time).

Do you currently or have you ever used any of Jaxel's mods?

 

[Dodgeboard]

I'm thinking XenPorta would remain free, even after a refactor... but I haven't decided yet.

I've always felt that your mods were among the very best mods in the community. Whether they be clean code or that of a newer object oriented programmer, many of these filled a dire need.

One only needs to click on the "most downloaded" tab to see that. It's one of the reasons I always donate on your site when I use one of your mods and find it useful.

I personally believe that both XenUtiles and XenPorta should be paid add-ons, as they do require considerable support (I know - I've read the entire Xenporta support thread and I have seen the same questions asked over and over).

You do a good job Jason...and while we sometimes don't say it enough, THANKS! My community would not be the same without your mods.

 

[melbo]

Glad to see this explanation. I gladly pay for addons and often wondered why your free add ons had such (none) support.
In fact, I've ditched a few of them because you didn't have a supported (paid) version.

Nice reasoning and I look forward to supported, premium version of your stuff.

 

[Adam Howard]

Do you currently or have you ever used any of Jaxel's mods?

yes

 

[jadmperry]

Alright, so you guys know me... I refactor my code all the time, I'm a true believer in dog-fooding and I hate giving support for addons I already give out for free. You may have noticed that my last few releases have been "premium"; addons I charge for, and for which I give full support.

Haven't really tracked your pricing, but I take you at your word on this point. Nothing I have noticed makes me think this is not true.

During the past few months and with my work on XenTorneo and XenRio, I've discovered so much about how XenForo's coding platform works and how to make my programs better. When I first started working on XenForo, I was completely new to object oriented design, as I come from a procedural background.

I think this statement was meant to support your reasoning for a change in pricing....again, I don't know or have not paid enough attention to the base statement to decide if this is true or important...but, I am a solid believer in folks getting paid for good work. I tend to trust you based on previous releases.

I still write my code in a more procedural format (hell, I still don't understand what MCV means), but I like to think my code has gotten a lot better. All you need to do is look at XenRio or XenTorneo on my website and see how much faster those pages load versus other pages on my site.

Will check those out; though, like I said, I tend toward trusting you and your skills (or as the younger generation says, skillz).

However, a lot of the addons I've written were written back when I was still a ****ty programmer. For instance, XenCarta was written in FOUR DAYS after the release of XenForo (it was originally part of XenPorta). How well programmed can a wiki be thats written in four days? While I've done my best to make the front-ends of my work as clean and aesthetic as possible, I sometimes look back at my code and facepalm.

Cool...everyone who is worth a damn strives for getting better. I am interested in seeing what you produce. (And, I think you have no shame in asking or suggesting to get paid for you efforts).

Since I'm a true believer in dog-fooding I look back at my code and think "my website can be so much better than this". And since I'm okay with the idea of refactoring, I often think "yeah, its time to rewrite this". So thats where I'm at. I'm looking back at some of my old work and saying "yeah, its time for an update".

Sounds good to me.

But this kind of work takes time, and time is money. So I've made a decision. My addons as they stand now will remain free; and with that, they will continue with the level of support I've been giving to them, given their "free" nature: none. However, I plan on rewriting many of them in order to boost performance and design. The rewrites will not be free; however, because the rewrites will not be free, I will be giving full support for them, the same way I've been supporting my other premium addons.

I kinda got tired at this point in responding- I think the point is that you think you should get paid- I agree. Anything that is useful should be remunerated.

Keep on keeping on. I am not sure what I need for my site, but I agree with the gist of what you are saying. Produce quality stuff, you should get paid for it. Just my 2 cents and instinct.