Service providers - Clients who walk out on jobs

[Jeremy]

Equating us moderators to cops in a city where its their job to stop crime is a flawed analogy. That would be saying a cop is dirty because he won't go into a business and arrest the buyer for only paying half of something on lay-a-way. It isn't our job to interfere with the business of members, and frankly, it shouldn't be.

 

[Carlos]

Equating us moderators to cops in a city where its their job to stop crime is a flawed analogy. That would be saying a cop is dirty because he won't go into a business and arrest the buyer for only paying half of something on lay-a-way. It isn't our job to interfere with the business of members, and frankly, it shouldn't be.

Okay, fine. Let those people scam Kier and Mike on money. Maybe it won't happen today, but it'll happen tommorrow. I'm not the moderator. *shrug*

All that I'm saying, guys, if I was in your shoes, and I saw something bad happening, I'd do something about it.

 

[Sheldon]

Okay, fine. Let those people scam Kier and Mike on money.

If I recall, Ashley deals with payment / non-payment disputes via ticket. The moderators don't deal with that aspect of the company.

 

[Carlos]

If I recall, Ashley deals with payment / non-payment disputes via ticket. The moderators don't deal with that aspect of the company.

I'm just saying in general K/M/A. Yeah, he deals with business. I know. I meant in general.

 

[Slavik]

All that I'm saying, guys, if I was in your shoes, and I saw something bad happening, I'd do something about it.

What we do or don't do is never made public. So you don't realy have any position to make such comments. The be all and end all, is at the end of the day, any 3rd party transactions are that, 3rd party.

 

[Jeremy]

Moderators dealing with those dealing directly with XenForo is different than those dealing with outside vendors.

 

[Liam W]

I think you should stop now @Carlos... You're going fall out with the mods if you continue...

 

[Carlos]

What we do or don't do is never made public. So you don't realy have any position to make such comments. The be all and end all, is at the end of the day, any 3rd party transactions are that, 3rd party.

Yeah, maybe it's 3rd party, but at the end of the tunnel, what does this mean for your (xenForo's) skin creators? Back in the vBulletin days, people used to scam other artists out of money because they think "they can" get away with it.

I think you should stop now @Carlos... You're going fall out with the mods if you continue...

They're debating, no falling out. They're actually kind right now.

 

[Kevin]

So, @Audentio ... when you say gators, are we talking about the green skinned ones that live in the swamps or the Florida kind that has a love of university football?

 

[Jeremy]

I was on Staff of vB.org, I know they too do not interfere with 3rd party businesses.

 

[Slavik]

Yeah, maybe it's 3rd party, but at the end of the tunnel, what does this mean for your (xenForo's) skin creators? Back in the vBulletin days, people used to scam other artists out of money because they think "they can" get away with it.

It means they should take due dilligence to protect themselves from unknown sources. Not rely on us at XF to fix it if they dont.

 

[Paul B]

What about forum members who illegally download music, games and software?
Should we also deal with those?
Why should we limit it to just XenForo add-on and style developers?

 

[Russ]

What we do or don't do is never made public. So you don't realy have any position to make such comments. The be all and end all, is at the end of the day, any 3rd party transactions are that, 3rd party.

Exactly, I do appreciate in the past where I've reported posts for users trying to get support on my premium styles here when they haven't purchased it and the moderators have responded appropriately and locking the thread.

However when it comes to transaction such as @Audentio 's, it's unfortunate but you can't expect them to take sides.

Yeah, maybe it's 3rd party, but at the end of the tunnel, what does this mean for your (xenForo's) skin creators? Back in the vBulletin days, people used to scam other artists out of money because they think "they can" get away with it.

Unfortunately that falls back on us, the style creators to pick and choose who we do business with.

 

[Carlos]

What about forum members who illegally download music, games and software?
Should we also deal with those?

The FBI in the U.S. I don't know which federal system handles that kind of thing in your area (U.K? Correct me if I'm wrong).

Why should we limit it to just XenForo add-on and style developers?

Right now, you guys are mitigating the process between add-on/style develpers (via Resource plugin), so somewhere you guys deal with those "hahah, I got this for free!" comments. Like I said before, this falls under the same idea as resource moderation.

There's got to be something you guys can do somewhere. I'm feeling bad for @Audentio

If this is widespread, I think xenForo will have less and less skin creators which turns into = less skin showcase for xenForo, which is the end result if you guys don't do something. Which is what I'm trying to get to.

Exactly, I do appreciate in the past where I've reported posts for users trying to get support on my premium styles here when they haven't purchased it and the moderators have responded appropriately and locking the thread.

There. Perfect example here. Perfect! Thank you Russ!

EDIT: Just for the record, @Brogan and anyone else; this is what I meant by "moral compass."

 

[Jeremy]

There is nothing we can do. There is a reason XenForo Resource Manger doesn't include the functionality to process payments, as it directly involves us into 3rd party transactions and partially reliable.

Resource moderation and business transactions are separate entities.

 

[Russ]

The FBI in the U.S. I don't know which federal system handles that kind of thing in your area (U.K? Correct me if I'm wrong).

Right now, you guys are mitigating the process between add-on/style develpers (via Resource plugin), so somewhere you guys deal with those "hahah, I got this for free!" comments. Like I said before, this falls under the same idea as resource moderation.

There's got to be something you guys can do somewhere. I'm feeling bad for @Audentio

There. Perfect example here. Perfect! Thank you Russ!

My example isn't what this thread started about though, this person used a third party site to download my style(and possibly xenforo) then tried coming here for support.

 

[Paul B]

Everybody hates scammers and time wasters but they are an unfortunate fact of life.

You can mitigate against it but you can't totally eliminate it unless you go down the 100% payment up front route.
Even then people can and do make charge backs, cancel cheques, reverse credit card transactions, etc.
Direct bank/wire transfer is about the only guaranteed method as far as I am aware.

 

[Carlos]

My example isn't what this thread started about though, this person used a third party site to download my style(and possibly xenforo) then tried coming here for support.

Yes, but those members are here, and based on what I've experienced - in PM's - people show me work, but I don't know them too well, so I don't go into business with them. It was my impression in this thread that most of the "communication" payments were on this site.

Let's say I PM you for work, right, Russ? I like what you're doing, right? But as soon as I see the skin and I don't like it or don't want to pay for it, I leave the conversation and leave you hanging on the other half of the $500. That was my impression from the OPost.

 

[Dakis]

For a well - known developer like yourself, @xfrocks , @Chris Deeming , and a couple of others, I would have no problem paying upfront if asked - I've done it in the past in the vbulletin days with similar developers that had a great reputation (Miner for example, I always used to pay him upfront).

With developers that are new or have not provided a lot of work to the community, I'd be more careful so I probably wouldn't pay upfront.

 

[Dad.]

For the record, not expecting XenForo to do anything about this issue, it is a matter of general online business I personally have having and Im sure many others. It happens everyone online, not just here. I should have perhaps been more clear. I asked the question here because I value the opinions of this community above all other communties, really. Smart people here and I'm sure there are plenty here who have gone through what I am talking about.

So, @Audentio ... when you say gators, are we talking about the green skinned ones that live in the swamps or the Florida kind that has a love of university football?

Hehe I think I said too much. lol