Please tell me you will never... Do this....

[Adam Howard]

Skimlinks and VerticalResponse

So they've added adware and spam into the core product. Nice going Internet Brands.

1) Internet Brands decided to rely on a 3rd party product, rather then code something

2) Internet Brands decided we should be paying a 3rd party provider to use the product we already paid for from Internet Brands (vBulletin)

3) Security software does not like their 3rd party service provider (some individuals will get a warning or not even be able to access the 3rd party provider's site).

4) Use of their services (the 3rd party provider) has been blocked by some mail servers and by association, your community could also be blocked or classified as spam.

5) Some of the ads by Skimlinks have been flagged by security software, so using it can also get your site flagged

A job well done Internet Brands.

So I just want to know... That XenForo.... Would never do this to their customers?!

(The quote is from a post I made on vBulletin's Support Site)

 

[Alicia Navarro]

Will I earn the same amount I would earn if I created the affiliate links myself?
Because of our scale we can negotiate the very best commissions for our publishers, which means you can earn up to 110% of what you would have earned if you managed your affiliate links programme yourself. Skimlinks retains 25% of the commission payment from the merchant, and the rest we pay to you.

This is slightly unclear. Is the 110% before or after the 25% cut?

Hi RobParker,
Let me explain: for example, with Amazon, the standard revenue share is 5%, but we are on 8% (note, not all Amazon products are on this revenue share). So even when we take our 25% revenue share, you earn 6%, which is 110% of what you would have gotten on your own. We have negotiated similar deals with many top merchants, so the impact of our revenue share is negligible compared to what you would have earned if you went direct, and that isn't even including the value of all the manual effort you would need to put in to achieve something comparable to what Skimlinks can do for you.

Alicia
Founder - Skimlinks

 

[Alicia Navarro]

Then, the introduction of skimlinks, and keeping a portion of the earnings, well, that is just not right. Seems like they are trying to monetize .. other forums .. for their own gain. Had they wanted to do the proper thing they would've added the option, but certainly do not keep some of the earnings. No matter if the member would make less if they register at the site by themselves, it is just shady.

If they really wanted to do it correctly, they could have negotiated a special deal, and then shared that with the vB customers. "If you register with skimlinks with this promo code you will get a preferential deal" or something of the sort. But instead, it seems pretty much that it is a forced "use this, give us money". That is the FIRST option. If you want something else, go through hurdles. Might be easy for the average Joe, but I just find it abusive and opportunistic. "Hey, let's abuse our market position, we can make money from all the forums that use our product".

Hi Rigel,

To clarify, vB customers get a preferential deal, and the remuneration vBulletin receives is out of our marketing budget, not out of your pocket. You earn more going through vBulletin than if you went direct to us. And it is completely optional to you as to whether you use it, and you don't have to spend a cent to use it. I can understand your hesitancy, but I can assure you its all above board and genuinely for the benefit of forum owners.

Alicia
Founder - Skimlinks

 

[RobParker]

Alicia, thanks for the reponse. That answers my questions perfectly and it sounds like something that we'll look into once we go live with XF.

 

[jmurrayhead]

Can this thread close now it's turned into a vb support topic.

Actually, it turned into a "skimlinks isn't as evil as you perceived it to be at first" and "there's nothing wrong with adding third-party addons to the core of a product if you have all your ducks in a row" topic.

 

[Paul B]

I'd agree with that.

What started out as a potential vB related topic is now proving to be a useful source of information on Skimlinks.

Having the Skimlinks CEO posting in the thread can only be a good thing and of benefit to all members who are considering using the product.

 

[Carl]

Great but what's that to do with xf?

 

[jmurrayhead]

Great but what's that to do with xf?

XF has all their ducks in a row. We might be able to see something like skimlinks integrated in the near future.

 

[James]

Skimlinks appears to affiliate with XF, and also XF could be considering implementation with Skimlinks.

It could be suited elsewhere, but hey.

 

[Paul B]

Great but what's that to do with xf?

It has as much to do with XenForo as Google AdSense does.
It's a way for forum owners to earn revenue.

This is the pre-sales/feedback forum and topics of this nature are perfectly suited to here.

 

[Carl]

It has as much to do with XenForo as Google AdSense does.
It's a way for forum owners to earn revenue.

This is the pre-sales/feedback forum and topics of this nature are perfectly suited to here.

Because this a function in xf yes?

 

[Dean]

Because this a function in xf yes?

It is if you install it, which you could do on any website.

 

[Rigel Kentaurus]

Hi Rigel,

To clarify, vB customers get a preferential deal, and the remuneration vBulletin receives is out of our marketing budget, not out of your pocket. You earn more going through vBulletin than if you went direct to us. And it is completely optional to you as to whether you use it, and you don't have to spend a cent to use it. I can understand your hesitancy, but I can assure you its all above board and genuinely for the benefit of forum owners.

Alicia
Founder - Skimlinks

Sadly, you partnered with someone that has not demonstrated acting genuinely for the benefit of forum owners, IB has a history of a really abusive pre-sale, censoring the customers, hiding complain threads from public view, and asking people to not discuss announcements. So you might see where I come from ... when trust is so debilitated, a move like this is difficult to perceive as a good thing.

I understand that it is optional, and I understand that the remuneration for vBulletin comes from the marketing budget. I think what you are doing is great and might benefit forum owners, and I think your solution is great, I might sign for it myself independently.

As far as IB is concerned, the trust is lost, so far I just feel they are using my traffic for their own revenue purposes, and that too, is not ok, they are supposed to just sell me a tool, not profit from my community.

 

[Rigel Kentaurus]

As I understand it, that is the basis of the scheme.

Not true at all. Nobody is forcing vBulletin licensees to use Skimlinks, they simply make it much easier to do so should you want to.

That example is nothing like what is being offered by vBulletin and Skimlinks. A more accurate example would be:

"I can continue to use PowerPoint as I always have, but if I choose to sign up to SchemeX, whenever I make a PowerPoint presentation there is a chance that both I and Microsoft will get paid for doing so, without me having to do anything other than I would normally do."​

When you put it like that, where exactly is the down side?

My main issue is integrating it with the solution and forcing the customers for that to be the default, knowing that most people will just use the default setting anyway. It is not a matter of downside or money, it is a matter of intentions. I don't want somebody else profiting from my forum even in an indirect way. I don't feel that is right.

 

[Paul B]

My main issue is integrating it with the solution and forcing the customers for that to be the default, knowing that most people will just use the default setting anyway. It is not a matter of downside or money, it is a matter of intentions. I don't want somebody else profiting from my forum even in an indirect way. I don't feel that is right.

Presumably then you would feel the same if it was integrated in XenForo?
Even if overall it benefited forum owners due to them being able to get a better deal than going it alone?

 

[Rigel Kentaurus]

Presumably then you would feel the same if it was integrated in XenForo?
Even if overall it benefited forum owners due to them being able to get a better deal than going it alone?

Yes

And the saddest part is that I would end up still using the forum software anyway. This is not a "do not do this or I'll abandon my license" kind of thing. This is a "I don't think this is right, I will tell you once" thing. I would further decide down the road who to do business with. People using me as a media to profit for themselves is not ok.

I would feel way differently if the sign up with the referral was not integrated, and just provided in the configuration options. "Setup your skimlink id. You can sign up <here> or signup with a referral <here>"

This is a shaky ground. Next I know they are adding an option to subscribe new members to "interesting" mailing lists, and getting a cut from that. Next I know they are integrating a third party chat option that provides ads and they get a "cut" from that. Next I know the idea is not how to improve the software, but how to milk more money from the existing clients.

 

[erich37]

It has as much to do with XenForo as Google AdSense does.
It's a way for forum owners to earn revenue.

This is the pre-sales/feedback forum and topics of this nature are perfectly suited to here.

are we going to see the same enthusiasm for helping webmasters to easier integrate Google Adsense ? Without any middleman making a cut ?

 

[jmurrayhead]

People using me as a media to profit for themselves is not ok.

Do you work for anyone or do you work for yourself? The reason I ask is that this is how much of the world is. As employees, our hard work and efforts make a profit for our employers. I understand this is a bit different than being sold software, but it's kind of the same thing.

As long as it doesn't change what we get, why should we care?

 

[Rigel Kentaurus]

Do you work for anyone or do you work for yourself? The reason I ask is that this is how much of the world is. As employees, our hard work and efforts make a profit for our employers. I understand this is a bit different than being sold software, but it's kind of the same thing.

As long as it doesn't change what we get, why should we care?

It is the intentions. They give me skimlinks to monetize my forum. I then realize they are just monetizing themselves from the 30,000 communities or whatever licenses they have sold. I smell evilness, I instantly dislike it.

I have already provided a couple of suggestions about what could have been the correct way of offering this deal without passing as fishy or evil.

1) ..... "Hey guys, we negotiated an incredible deal with Skimlinks, if you want in, you can sign up here. The optional plugin is <here>"
> Wow, thanks

2) .... "Guess what? Skimlinks is now integrated, just press this little button to enable it (so easy!) and you will start earning money. Money! you want some, right. (and I will get some too). You can go independently but we won't promote that, we want money too."
> Evil

 

[jmurrayhead]

It is the intentions. They give me skimlinks to monetize my forum. I then realize they are just monetizing themselves from the 30,000 communities or whatever licenses they have sold. I smell evilness, I instantly dislike it.

I have already provided a couple of suggestions about what could have been the correct way of offering this deal without passing as fishy or evil.

1) ..... "Hey guys, we negotiated an incredible deal with Skimlinks, if you want in, you can sign up here. The optional plugin is <here>"
> Wow, thanks

2) .... "Guess what? Skimlinks is now integrated, just press this little button to enable it (so easy!) and you will start earning money. Money! you want some, right. (and I will get some too). You can go independently but we won't promote that, we want money too."
> Evil

I agree that both those options would have been better. But that is an IB implementation, not XenForo. I don't think they would "deceive" us that way here, if such a thing were to be implemented.

 

[Kier]

People using me as a media to profit for themselves is not ok.

Didn't you just describe every customer-vendor relationship ever in history? What is a customer if not a source of profit for a vendor?