Piracy - The Battle

[EQnoble]

I'm not for or against anything. However, the lesson of "call home", "dongles" and many other intrusive technologies have been learned in the past. As it stands, I find even the add-on upgrades and downloads quite tedious....I'd much prefer a true wordpress-like system. And, if that existed, I'd gladly give up some privacy and prove that I am an owner...

There is no right or wrong in these matters. In fact, if XF decided to be a $700 forum system (skim the real cream), then they'd have a larger percentage of corporate customers and some of these suggestions might be fine.

The market is a strange and sometimes bewildering thing. I invented one product and made the mistake, according to an economist friend, of selling it too cheap. He said if I priced it much higher, people would believe it was worth more (and it probably was, but I based price on my cost...not the value).

lol I once worked in a wood workshop where they had a HASP emulator interfaced between the computer and the cnc....mind you they (a single owner) were using cracked software and a HASP emulator to run a machine worth more than a million dollars which they bought cash. The tech behind the hasp device probably required quite a bit more effort to develop than anything we are talking about doing here and it is to protect software that is WAY more expensive, yet it was useless.

Not quite. Many "Well-Known Members" here use pirated add-ons.
Once they have it they have no incentive to purchase it.
My sales dropped by 90% so I guess the only people who bought them were not so serious admins.

We can all dream.

tbh I don't run a forum so I dont need your addons or anyone's really...I just enjoy learning and such...

the ONLY I repeat ONLY reason I have not bought any of your stuff...is simply because of all of the people who support you going on about your stuff getting pirated...the last thing I wanted to do was to buy something for the sole purpose of showing support and then be accused by a raging mob that I was the one who pirated it. Since I didn't need it, it wasn't worth the risk if you can understand my position.

No different than when someone has an issue with a commercial addon, I can offer to help on their site through the ACP , but I dont want server access as I dont need people making up stories about me...which is not something I would be new to in any way. When those same people offer to send me the addon so I can fix it and send it back to them....I also turn it down...because I don't need them doing something stupid or trusting other people the same way they trusted me and then the addon goes distro and I get blamed for it...no thank you.

In cases like where I was rebuilding a custom style for someone....they made their style based off of I think it was Ehren's (if I murdered the spelling of your name you have my permission to bash me publicly once) style so to feel right about making money while building off of someones work (even though this was bought by the person who was to use it in the end) I also bought a copy so that both people on my end of things were covered.

I like your essentials addons and would love to play with them a bit but I couldn't justify jumping into a boiling pot when I know that I was born a suspect. In fact I was meaning to donate you a small sum for providing to the community but I just get tied up and forget...if you send me a paypal link in a convo I wouldn't mind sending you something as a thanks.

 

[Mike Edge]

Many things should be in the core. I guess I'll just wait some more

I like much extra isn't in the core, every site has different needs and I really love beyond the bare software, everything else is 3rd party. I would love to see more official things like manager and search as official xF products, but they should always remain an add on option.. We start adding too much to the core, were just gonna be another bloated vB.

 

[Syndol]

the ONLY I repeat ONLY reason I have not bought any of your stuff...is simply because of all of the people who support you going on about your stuff getting pirated...the last thing I wanted to do was to buy something for the sole purpose of showing support and then be accused by a raging mob that I was the one who pirated it. Since I didn't need it, it wasn't worth the risk if you can understand my position.

Sorry but that does not make any sense.

In fact I was meaning to donate you a small sum for providing to the community but I just get tied up and forget...if you send me a paypal link in a convo I wouldn't mind sending you something as a thanks.

Not looking for donations, but thanks.

 

[Mike Edge]

One common reason for not purchasing addons is ... potential customers are worried about support drying up.
To me solving that issue could be more important to a thriving addon community than a technological miracle eliminating piracy.

Exactly, look at vBorg.. vB has far more piracy then xF, but look how vBorg thrived all threw 2.x/3.x. It was changes in staff that killed vBorg, not developers not releasing because it was being distributed illegally. Personally if a release of mine was pirated, I'd be somewhat flattered as it shows my product was awesome enough that someone took the time to null it.

 

[Syndol]

Personally if a release of mine was pirated, I'd be somewhat flattered as it shows my product was awesome enough that someone took the time to null it.

I'm sure Apple Inc is happy everyone wants to copy them too.

 

[Ingenious]

I find the idea of some "private forum" where developers could be "comparing notes" on me or other members, or accessing my licence details, quite scary. Sorry. I can just see this being so open to abuse.

 

[Sheldon]

I find the idea of some "private forum" where developers could be "comparing notes" on me or other members, or accessing my licence details, quite scary. Sorry. I can just see this being so open to abuse.

They wouldn't have access to the "details" of your license. FFS.

You don't mind purchasing or installing a free add-on from them and installing it... what's to say their isn't code in it to say the information you so dearly protect. You all are over analyzing this a bit too much.

The replies I have seen here are strange, to say the least.

 

[Digital Doctor]

Would this help ?

One thing that was looked down in vb.org was having Paid Mods in there. An implementation of donations by paypal was made, but .. after several hacks, I have yet to get even 1c Other people might have had more success.

If XenForo would be really serious about this, they would implement a "XenForo Addons Store" that would let hackers submit their addons, styles, and resources, with a suggested price, and the users would be able to browse the addons and download them. To make everything easier the charging should be done by XenForo and not the hacker, with the respective processing fee deducted.

And now.. I'll let my imagination fly a little.

The XenForo AddOns Store should not be a Web Application here, that download and upload to my forum is really boring and annoying. It should be integrated right into the admin control panel. Then after I buy an AddOn, I would have it right away in my installation ready to install and to disable anytime I want. In a similar fashion, I can just update all my AddOns through my ACP, pretty much how updating applications in my iPhone works. Add a reviews system so people can leave opinions and make sure that they don't end up buying something they cannot use.

An AddOn does not work or is in conflict? Maybe a 1 day return warranty enforced.

Let the developer put the price to his mod/resource, and let the market moderate that. Some mods will be free, some developers would release a free version and a paid one. Some would choose the 1 dollar option, some would go for the 20 dollar option for the mod.

Signs that the market is accepting these ideas are the success of the iPhone App Store, the Android App Store, the new Mac Store, the Google Apps MarketPlace... even the fact that Wordpress auto-updates itself is just being one step ahead of installing easily from a central location.

I think the success of the iphone, ipod touch, ipad is in part due to the APPS store. I can see cool devices such as the Blackberry Pad (blackpad) have trouble competing because they won't be able to compete against all of the apps in the Apple store. The ipad has a huge developer base, the blackpad is unlikely to gain such a following (although the blackpad users (businesses) might pay more for apps). Would xenforo benefit from an "Apps" store ? Would developers like it ? What are the pluses and minuses ?

Could piracy be mitigated by a Xenforo APPS store than payment was done by Xenforo.com itself ?

 

[Ingenious]

The replies I have seen here are strange, to say the least.

Strange in what way? No-one is questioning or disputing your good intentions (or at least I hope not, we all want to see piracy stamped out and developers flourish). You're putting forward suggestions on what you think can be done, people are responding, not everyone agrees with you.

 

[Sheldon]

Strange in what way? No-one is questioning or disputing your good intentions (or at least I hope not, we all want to see piracy stamped out and developers flourish). You're putting forward suggestions on what you think can be done, people are responding, not everyone agrees with you.

Overall, some of the replies here are strange. Agreeing or disagreeing with me. If you read back, I stated that earlier as well...

 

[EQnoble]

Sorry but that does not make any sense.

Not looking for donations, but thanks.

Suit yourself...

But if you don't understand why that is a problem, it really is your problem not mine...people who would be your customers might not want to feel guilty when they have done nothing wrong...I felt guilty reading about your situation and I had nothing to do with it which is why I offered to donate instead of buying an addon from you which I would have done along time ago but didn't for the reasons I said. It don't have to make sense to you, but since I would be a customer that doesn't matter...I am the one deciding to spend money or not...money that I dont really have at this time to be spending...so..yeah.. thanks for the cold hand slapping mine away with the dismissive answer instead of the question of my logic.

Also at the time that I had planned on purchasing convo essentials, the rumor mill was in full swing, it would not be very hard for facts to be misconstrued. That would include any accusations that could follow...better to stay away for anyone who tries to avoid drama when no good can come from it.

It really is that simple, you can't get blamed for something you are not involved in. No different than when I was modifying someone else's style...if the same negativity was surrounding it...I would have not purchased the style and not taken the job that relied on it.

 

[Mike Edge]

Would this help ?




Could piracy be mitigated by a Xenforo APPS store than payment was done by Xenforo.com itself ?

and a API with keys, like WHMCS. Cloud Linux etc. Your issued a key and it registers in the license member area where it is installed.. domain, IP and server path. To install it elsewhere, you need to release your key allowing you to install it else where and making current install of it no longer function with a invalid key error. This also resolves the issue of some people buying one copy and installing it on 50 forums.

 

[EQnoble]

and a API with keys, like WHMCS. Cloud Linux etc. Your issued a key and it registers in the license member area where it is installed.. domain, IP and server path. To install it elsewhere, you need to release your key allowing you to install it else where and making current install of it no longer function with a invalid key error. This also resolves the issue of some people buying one copy and installing it on 50 forums.

How would you handle test beds? Localhosts behind a firewall with no domain? Localhosts with no internet access?

To me it seems that to make a small change and test it on a test board would require more work than installing the forum itself...

 

[Mike Edge]

How would you handle test beds? Localhosts behind a firewall with no domain? Localhosts with no internet access?

To me it seems that to make a small change and test it on a test board would require more work than installing the forum itself...

Good points, maybe a second key that requires the directoy /test and checks for a deny .htaccess file?

 

[Syndol]

But if you don't understand why that is a problem, it really is your problem not mine...people who would be your customers might not want to feel guilty when they have done nothing wrong..

If you are not redistributing the add-on or using a 'nulled' one then what is there to be guilty about?
People who feel guilty usually have a reason.

 

[Digital Doctor]

Maybe Xenforo needs a Xenforo.org ?

 

[EQnoble]

If you are not redistributing the add-on or using a 'nulled' one then what is there to be guilty about?
People who feel guilty usually have a reason.

I have not used your addons....I am not redistributing them either...

Feeling guilty is an empathetic reaction because I care...even when I try not to. Other people do the same. I just say what is on my mind when it comes down to it a lot of the time where many others sit in silence when in the same predicaments. For some reason people equate emotion to weakness and choose to say nothing. I suppose it is my fault as well seeing that if I had said this to you over a year ago...we would probably be having a completely different conversation at this point.

My gesture of a donation stemmed from caring about a developer at a place I have grown to love. If it bothers anyone, I am sorry for caring I guess, but my offer stands as well as I do on my position.

I have nothing but the highest expectations of this place and the community that fills it out and regardless how my msgs may sound...that is the drive behind my actions here.

 

[EQnoble]

Maybe Xenforo needs a Xenforo.org ?

And who is going to run that?

 

[Digital Doctor]

And who is going to run that?

Uhh ... the community.

Just like the community ran things while "people were away" !

It would be like an Apple Apps store.
80% of a sale goes to the developer.
10% to the xenforo.org community.
10% to Xenforo.

Some of the xenforo.org money might go into salaries. I don't know.

In support the community would upkeep a Community Codebase that would include key integration items (Widget framework, Tags, Tag Me, whatever) and Security keys.

Xenforo Inc. will agree to working with the .org to ensure compatibility of the community codebase, etc.

 

[craigiri]

If you are not redistributing the add-on or using a 'nulled' one then what is there to be guilty about?
People who feel guilty usually have a reason.

Not true. Have you ever watched the Caine Mutiny?
We all have a bit of that in us....

Heck, isn't a lot of modern religion and commercialism about feeling guilty always?

Do the paranoid act that way because they really should be scared of something?

I don't want any answers to those questions - just pointing out that all of us tend to think others interpret the world in a similar fashion to how we do - but it's not true! And it doesn't make one party right or another wrong.

The only think that can be stated with truth here is that it is wrong to steal (in most cases.....maybe if your family is starving, it is ok).