Piracy - The Battle

[akia]

isn't this just a little too much effort in something that's going to happen regardless. Surely its best just to concentrate on providing the best add ons and support that people will want to pay for. any serious admin isn't going to install pirated add ons and the people that do tend to be the people that wouldn't pay for stuff even if a pirated copy wasn't available. So there isn't really any lost revenue for the developer.

 

[EQnoble]

I would suggest he find admins with a bit more integrity then.

yeah well, you wont know their level of integrity until after you have been bent over and start to fart silently...

I have had friends who called my parents their own....and my parents reciprocated the gesture...it wasn't until they royally flocked my family over that anyone knew their integrity...can you imagine if one of those 'great friends' of mine robbed my house and the police said 'tough nuts kid, you should have made better friends, any harm that was done to you doesn't matter now'. That is the message you are sending to someone by banning them for someone elses actions.

I am talking friends and family here....people I break bread with. To think someone making keystrokes across a network is an easier thing to judge is a bit crazy. At least with most of the people who screwed me over, they had the nerve to do it face to face where I had a chance to accurately to gauge them...online you get more deception because you can make believe you are anyone and it is easier to evade responsibility .

Judging someones integrity is a life long thing....it is like making a bet with someone that you will never smoke a cigg again...you can't win until you die...at any point in your life if you light up, you lose and they win where on the other end of things...you can only win after you are not around to claim the prize. Same with integrity...you wont know if someone is going to screw you over until they do and that can happen up until the point that you are dead. You have to wait a lifetime to win...and you only win if you don't lose at all during that lifetime.




In the end it is judgmental to say they should have friends with greater integrity because if you only have low quality choices for friends....the only alternative is to go at life alone, some people just can't do that. Shunning someone because they have never made quality friends is extremely biased and judgmental.

I guess in your case I can say it must be nice to have friends who want to help you and see you succeed...I would just ask that you realize that it is not the same for everyone in that respect. Some people have to play cards with a deck that isn't loaded at all and then again some people get dealt 7-2 off-suit on the reg and it is either always fold and never play, or try to make a hand out of it...sometimes 7-2 has to win....you can't hate them for trying.

 

[Sheldon]

Surely its best just to concentrate on providing the best add ons and support that people will want to pay for.

That isn't the point. If the devs quit out of frustration, who do you suggest build and support the new ones?

 

[craigiri]

isn't this just a little too much effort in something that's going to happen regardless. Surely its best just to concentrate on providing the best add ons and support that people will want to pay for. any serious admin isn't going to install pirated add ons and the people that do tend to be the people that wouldn't pay for stuff even if a pirated copy wasn't available. So there isn't really any lost revenue for the developer.

There is definitely, IMHO (and in some experience) truth to this. I know people who pirate - even some in my family - but they would never buy it nor do they usually use the stuff much. I think it is often the thrill of the hunt.

The problem with XF has not been the piracy. Compared to any SW like this I have used, members here seem ready to shell out for a LOT of extras that previously would be included, free or cheap. The problem is simply lack of volume, something that should fix itself now. If a developer can sell 400 copies of an add-on for $10, or in Robbo's gallery case, a couple hundred copies at 50 or 60, that's a decent chunk of change.

Until now, I feel that XF developers worked on faith alone. Hopefully, for those who stayed and those who come back, that faith will pay out!

 

[Sheldon]

Strange.

It seems there is so much fight against something that will actually not change anything to end users. Only making a difference to those that are wanting to sell, maintain and support add-ons.

In the end, this isn't about types like me (the end user who just buys), this suggestion is merely to help developers. Like it, love it, or hate it... some of them are pissed off about the issue. Some have slowed there releases to a CRAWL... why? Take a guess.

Not sure why the resistance though. I figured this would be the one thing everyone would support, as it only helps the community (provides a place devs can compare piraters, compile a database of sorts, warn other developers, etc). I guess others see it in a different light.

No worries, I can simply keep on keepin' on. I don't mind.

 

[akia]

There is definitely, IMHO (and in some experience) truth to this. I know people who pirate - even some in my family - but they would never buy it nor do they usually use the stuff much. I think it is often the thrill of the hunt.

I don't know whether it translates across to software, but i know in regards to music there is evidence out there that piracy actually improves sales rather than detracts. People like to be able to sample what they are buying first.

 

[Biker]

I don't know whether it translates across to software, but i know in regards to music there is evidence out there that piracy actually improves sales rather than detracts. People like to be able to sample what they are buying first.

It doesn't relate to software. Especially for those packages that have rather hefty price tags.

 

[Kevin]

I don't know whether it translates across to software....

It does not.

 

[EQnoble]

Strange.

It seems there is so much fight against something that will actually not change anything to end users. Only making a difference to those that are wanting to sell, maintain and support add-ons.

But it does change things...one of your solutions to a problem it could create was for him to change his basis of judgement against his admin, that is changing things for the end user and it may be something he is not capable of changing.

 

[akia]

It seems there is so much fight against something that will actually not change anything to end users. Only making a difference to those that are wanting to sell, maintain and support add-ons.

It does change things for the end users. if a developers time is tied up trying to fight piracy constantly then that's less time to spend developing and supporting the paying customers for very little pay back. Piracy is always going to be there and its a cat and mouse game.

Like i said before no serious forum admin (who are the ones that buy the addons) is going to install pirated addons on their forum, the best fight against piracy is knowing that if you use a pirated addon you don't know what your getting.

 

[Syndol]

...any serious admin isn't going to install pirated add ons and the people that do tend to be the people that wouldn't pay for stuff even if a pirated copy wasn't available. So there isn't really any lost revenue for the developer.

People like to be able to sample what they are buying first.

Not quite. Many "Well-Known Members" here use pirated add-ons.
Once they have it they have no incentive to purchase it.
My sales dropped by 90% so I guess the only people who bought them were not so serious admins.

If a developer can sell 400 copies...

We can all dream.

 

[craigiri]

Strange.

It seems there is so much fight against something that will actually not change anything to end users. Only making a difference to those that are wanting to sell, maintain and support add-ons.

No worries, I can simply keep on keepin' on. I don't mind.

I'm not for or against anything. However, the lesson of "call home", "dongles" and many other intrusive technologies have been learned in the past. As it stands, I find even the add-on upgrades and downloads quite tedious....I'd much prefer a true wordpress-like system. And, if that existed, I'd gladly give up some privacy and prove that I am an owner...

There is no right or wrong in these matters. In fact, if XF decided to be a $700 forum system (skim the real cream), then they'd have a larger percentage of corporate customers and some of these suggestions might be fine.

The market is a strange and sometimes bewildering thing. I invented one product and made the mistake, according to an economist friend, of selling it too cheap. He said if I priced it much higher, people would believe it was worth more (and it probably way, but I based price on my cost...not the value).

 

[craigiri]

We can all dream.

It will happen. Trust me......not saying yours will, but many add-on developers will sell that kind of quantity of XF add-ons (many hundreds)

Come back and point me to this thread in two years if that does not come true!

Fact is that some of the existing add-ons simply plugged holes and threw in stuff that should have (and will) be in the core. Not to say that makes them any less difficult to write and support, but I think the add-ons which provide functionality not in the core expectations will do very well.

Not that it means much, but I have paid for every single add-on I use and donated in most every case on the free ones (those that ask). I would not even consider any other way...and, yes, I've seen them for download on pirate forums (google leads me there sometimes!).

 

[Sheldon]

Like i said before no serious forum admin (who are the ones that buy the addons) is going to install pirated addons on their forum, the best fight against piracy is knowing that if you use a pirated addon you don't know what your getting.

Actually, it has already happened here. You must have not noticed it though.

 

[Sheldon]

I'm not for or against anything. However, the lesson of "call home", "dongles" and many other intrusive technologies have been learned in the past. As it stands, I find even the add-on upgrades and downloads quite tedious....I'd much prefer a true wordpress-like system. And, if that existed, I'd gladly give up some privacy and prove that I am an owner...

There is no right or wrong in these matters. In fact, if XF decided to be a $700 forum system (skim the real cream), then they'd have a larger percentage of corporate customers and some of these suggestions might be fine.

The market is a strange and sometimes bewildering thing. I invented one product and made the mistake, according to an economist friend, of selling it too cheap. He said if I priced it much higher, people would believe it was worth more (and it probably way, but I based price on my cost...not the value).

I am not saying to change the addons. Nothing.

Give the developers thier own private area to compare notes. Not hard. Let them see who is licensed. Let them see who is associated to what license.

I am not trying to reinvent the wheel here.

 

[Sheldon]

Not quite. Many "Well-Known Members" here use pirated add-ons.
Once they have it they have no incentive to purchase it.
My sales dropped by 90% so I guess the only people who bought them were not so serious admins.

Directly from a developer who sells add-ons.

 

[Sheldon]

It does change things for the end users. if a developers time is tied up trying to fight piracy constantly then that's less time to spend developing and supporting the paying customers for very little pay back. Piracy is always going to be there and its a cat and mouse game.

Or... the dev can get pissed off and not do anything else, due to the fact they have no support or help here in protecting their own items.

Yes it is a cat and mouse game. Yes, it will eventually happen.

Why not give them a little help?

You keep saying "developing and supporting"... ermmm.... they do not code 24/7 (most, exceptions are few apparently). In their "non-developing" time, is it so unreasonable for them to want to discuss things such as this?

 

[Digital Doctor]

One common reason for not purchasing addons is ... potential customers are worried about support drying up.
To me solving that issue could be more important to a thriving addon community than a technological miracle eliminating piracy.

 

[Syndol]

Fact is that some of the existing add-ons simply plugged holes and threw in stuff that should have (and will) be in the core. Not to say that makes them any less difficult to write and support, but I think the add-ons which provide functionality not in the core expectations will do very well.

Many things should be in the core. I guess I'll just wait some more

 

[Shelley]

I think a good angle to approach from if this falls flat is add-on creators who provide free add-ons recoup the costs by making those add-ons/resources paid?

edit: if it's possible to re-coup costs lost due to piracy.