Opinion: Is spam freedom of speech?

Adam Howard

Adam Howard

Well-known member
Question:

Do you believe spam counts as freedom of speech?

Disclaimer: This thread has nothing to do with XenForo or The XenForo Community. It is meant to only get your own personal opinion on the question in general.
 
Cal said:
No. Trust me if it was I'd be screwed. I deal in the realm of free speech.
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We both would be f*cked in my opinion.

I sometimes feel my community is a social experiment. :ROFLMAO:

I sometimes question if people really do like freedom or not? It seems the more you give people freedom the more they hate and resent you for it. More so, the more freedom you give people the more they wish to use that freedom to destroy or disprove the very freedoms they have. :confused:
 
Good question.
Freedom of speech means that if we both share a public space, then we have the right to express opinions without fear of punishment, attack, or penalty.
Interestingly like most freedoms, this freedom is normally protected by rules. without these protective rules the freedom collapses into abuse.

We can display information on something we own eg a Tshirt, but not on a wall - which we don't own.
Most shared space has rules so as not to make it too unequal. For example in my country you can speak your piece in the street, but you may not amplify your voice with a loudhailer or megaphone, if anyone objects.
(I once phoned police and complained about a Christian ranter using a loudhailer and they were on it instantly and thanked me saying they coudn't act until I complained.)
But this is PUBLIC space where neither side has ownership.

Club space is a bit different and like membership itself, is subject to the rules or decisions of the owne, or managing committee. (This is like forums.)

Spam in my Inbox is invading my PRIVATE space. Public free speech does not apply.I have the right to decide who can speak to me in my home and my inbox is like an online "front room."
(In both cases certain authorities, emergency services, police and other government agents, can enter and speak against my will.

In our Inboxes must negotiate what we permit each other individually. What one person permits eg swearing, slang, *****y gossip, porn pics, sexist jokes, another does not.
In the EU I believe it is now law that sales emails should only send to opted in addressees, and even so contain an Unsubscribe link. Trouble is spammers easily host their email outside the EU.

A forum is controlled, owned space, even if "open to the public." They are by their nature authoritarian. The owner may PERMIT a lot of freedom but by the nature of the software we are dependent on the owner/ mods to allow us our freedoms. They are like pubs and restaurants, open to the public but under private rule.
We state in our rules that sales messages such as mass spam are not accepted, so spam is against the forum rules.
 
Adam Howard said:
Do you believe spam counts as freedom of speech?
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Since it costs the forum owners to post on their forums, no.

Since it costs the forum member to read it, no.

Similar to the spam fax issue which was stopped for the same reasons, the spammer is imposing costs on others.
 
ManagerJosh said:
Answer simply: NO.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...ony-conviction-upheld-no-free-speech-to-spam/

http://www.ibls.com/internet_law_news_portal_view.aspx?s=latestnews&id=2052
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Not every country has an anti-spam law and the internet is not all America. So this would vary from place to place. For example, our site is primarily Sweden owned. Of course we're not spamming anyone so we have no worry either way, but more that others have spammed us (as with most of us here). And the topic came up with if spam counted as freedom of speech, expression, or information?!

It's a touchy subject for us because we pride ourselves in being uncensored, yet do restrict illegal content and spam.
 
Adam Howard said:
We both would be f*cked in my opinion.

I sometimes feel my community is a social experiment. :ROFLMAO:

I sometimes question if people really do like freedom or not? It seems the more you give people freedom the more they hate and resent you for it. More so, the more freedom you give people the more they wish to use that freedom to destroy or disprove the very freedoms they have. :confused:
Click to expand...

Agreed. Our reps are on the fence. Enough people scream censorship and it'll bring the entire ship down. It's a little different then the normal form admin, these niches are held to extremely high standards by the users :coffee:
 
Adam Howard said:
Not every country has an anti-spam law and the internet is not all America. So this would vary from place to place. For example, our site is primarily Sweden owned. Of course we're not spamming anyone so we have no worry either way, but more that others have spammed us (as with most of us here). And the topic came up with if spam counted as freedom of speech, expression, or information?!

It's a touchy subject for us because we pride ourselves in being uncensored, yet do restrict illegal content and spam.
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It wasn't meant to be a unilateral decision saying you need to have anti-spam laws to make it relevant, but rather, a reference that while there is freedom of speech, there are types of speech that do not fall under that category.
 
Most email or forums reside on private servers and networks. Freedom of speech only applies to private property under special circumstances, and this is not one of them. Freedom of speech was intended to be a protection from government, not necessarily from other citizens. At least that's the case in America.
 
Someone using a bot called xrumer to mass post on a forum and try to sell ugg boots, handbags and soccer clothes. That isn't freedom of speech.
 
What would be the point of making spam counted as Freedom of expression? In other words, what is the point of the question?

Article 10 – Freedom of expression
  1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.
  2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.
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Source: Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms (article 10)
 
BlackJacket said:
Freedom of speech is freedom of speech is freedom of speech. You cannot choose who has that right and who doesn't.
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Spam is theft, not freedom of speech.

Specific to spam, advertising products for sale on the internet or even mass posting of political views, one has the freedom to purchase resources to have a forum for that purpose. One does not have the freedom to use other people's resources to do it.

That is the heart of the issue. Spam steals other people's resources and deprives them of their freedom of speech. It should be outlawed as a protection of personal property, as a protection of public resources and as a protection of freedom of speech.
 
It is this way to me...

You are the owner of a site...if some legal action is taken it will be against you, you pony up dollars and host up a server and build a site, style it and arrange a layout. You put time into it because you love it, the subject your forum covers, or you like the idea of a community getting together. You create an environment where people can come together and enjoy a nice day by the pool... (in this case innocent victim status)

or

You are a spammer, you have an agenda, be it harassing a group of people sharing something in common (targeting specific sites or software or whatever), or trying to generate clicks on something that pays you. It is selfish greedy and hateful reasons that drive spammers. You are in it for number 1 and that's it, an opportunist who will do anything you can get away with. You didn't put up a site, build on a domain, develop a strong community or spend tons of time, in fact you use automated software to attack someones personal property while you go do something else....probably something you love doing from your home, probably without someone spreading another's logo feces all up on your walls. You're whole goal involves peeing in someone else's pool for the benefit of yourself.


Freedom of speech stops the moment it is used to launch an unfounded attack in my opinion. Spamming a site is an attack no different than walking into a gas station owned by middle eastern folk and cracking racist jokes. Not only does it personally hurt the worker you are attacking it hurts the owner as it probably makes a good portion of the other customers uncomfortable and causes them to cease their business in that establishment. You are free to protest something to your hearts content up until the point where it is used as a personal attack. If I run a server, and pay for it's upkeep, it is my personal property. My personal property is not the setting to protest me or my site, start your own and do that if you want, otherwise you are telling me that you don't care if I want to show up at your house, walk in the front door and sit at your table so I can humiliate you and then maybe even record and publish it so i can monetize my wasting of your time and attacking of your personal space.
 

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