Opera Next - Chromium Build

[Forsaken]

Opera has just released their new Chromium based browser in their Opera Next browser (which is just their pre-release of a stable browser). They announced the move to WebKit and now to Blink (Google's fork of Webkit) several months ago and I was apprehensive, but hoping that they'd keep their browser at least slightly as functional and productive as it was then. To say the least, they didn't. You can read my full rant here if you'd like, but I'll cover a bit here: http://adeptgamer.com/forum/threads/opera-next-chromium-build.757/#post-9617

The most major thing I am missing is the developer tools. The one that is currently included is a slightly modified Chrome web inspector that isn't as functional as Opera's Dragonfly was. I'll probably be able to learn to use it, but I am going to miss the features and ease of use that Dragonfly offered, especially minor things like being able to close it with CTRL+W, without closing the tab.

Another big feature is the tab management settings. Currently there is no tab stacking (grouping) and no pinning, both features that I made use of quite a bit with Opera. Pinning will probably make it into a future version, but I'm not sure whether tab stacks will, and that is one of the handiest features if you keep a few hundred browser tabs open at a given time.

There is an obvious difference in speed however. The Chromium based Opera is much faster, and rendering is quite a bit better. I can also use sites that use to block Opera easily enough such as Google Docs, Google Music and Asana. Still doesn't make up for ruining my favorite browser .

 

[Jason]

Perhaps DragonFly is still on the table?

http://business.opera.com/company/jobs/opening/372/

 

[Forsaken]

Perhaps DragonFly is still on the table?

http://business.opera.com/company/jobs/opening/372/

I hope so, because I hate Chromes developer tool, and apparently so does almost every other developer or designer who uses Chrome.

Honestly, it would have been better to get it closer to how the old Opera was than to release it the way it is now with a few additional features that do not cover the lack of important features. Some I could ignore, but most of the productivity I have is completely gone and it grates on my nerves to not be able to use them ;|.

 

[Green Cat]

I hope so, because I hate Chromes developer tool, and apparently so does almost every other developer or designer who uses Chrome.

Honestly, it would have been better to get it closer to how the old Opera was than to release it the way it is now with a few additional features that do not cover the lack of important features. Some I could ignore, but most of the productivity I have is completely gone and it grates on my nerves to not be able to use them ;|.

It's a development build, it's likely that some of these features will return when this version is released for everyone to use.

 

[Jason]

I haven't used Opera regularly for a few years now, but this preview is rather disappointing. I can't help but think they have a lot more they want to get through on their todo list. At least, I'd hope. Something I did notice though, besides the lack of power features, is they've completely rewritten the UI -- it's native (ie, it's not simply a skin on top of Chromium). That alone was probably a massive undertaking.

 

[Forsaken]

It's a development build, it's likely that some of these features will return when this version is released for everyone to use.

The point is some of the more important features (bookmarks) were left out so they could add "Stash" and a few other things.

They should have focused at getting the Chromium build of Opera functional enough that it would be useable, because as it is now it is no better than Chrome without any add-ons and with a few features which do not replace other functionality.

I haven't used Opera regularly for a few years now, but this preview is rather disappointing. I can't help but think they have a lot more they want to get through on their todo list. At least, I'd hope. Something I did notice though, besides the lack of power features, is they've completely rewritten the UI -- it's native (ie, it's not simply a skin on top of Chromium). That alone was probably a massive undertaking.

Yeah I noticed that, and it's one of the things I like. It doesn't send my fans haywire on my computer which is something that Chrome does.

 

[Adam Howard]

They are doing 1 thing right. They're separating their mail and browser. Opera Mail was also released.

http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/opera-next-15-0-released/

The idea of them being in 1 product always seemed like a bad idea & possible a security risk (in my opinion).

Although I am going to archive the current version for future use (and download) just in case I find their new version not to be what it's cracked up to be.

I archived Netscape for a point of reference. May as well archive Opera.

 

[Forsaken]

They are doing 1 thing right. They're separating their mail and browser. Opera Mail was also released.

http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/opera-next-15-0-released/

The idea of them being in 1 product always seemed like a bad idea & possible a security risk (in my opinion).

Although I am going to archive the current version for future use (and download) just in case I find their new version not to be what it's cracked up to be.

I archived Netscape for a point of reference. May as well archive Opera.

Their mail client has rarely ever had security exploits.

And it's also one of the things that has pissed people off most. I've never really been fond of it, though I used it instead of Thunderbird for a while but was having weird issues with receiving mail so I moved over to Postbox a few years ago.

Also Opera keeps all old versions of their browser available on a publicly accessible FTP server.

 

[Adam Howard]

Their mail client has rarely ever had security exploits.

And it's also one of the things that has pissed people off most. I've never really been fond of it, though I used it instead of Thunderbird for a while but was having weird issues with receiving mail so I moved over to Postbox a few years ago.

Also Opera keeps all old versions of their browser available on a publicly accessible FTP server.

http://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/

I learned something new. I also learned they have a 64 bit version, but they don't seem to advertize it.. ie.. Anytime you download from their site it gives you the 32bit by default.

The more ya know....

 

[Forsaken]

http://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/

I learned something new. I also learned they have a 64 bit version, but they don't seem to advertize it.. ie.. Anytime you download from their site it gives you the 32bit by default.

The more ya know....

You have to navigate all around to find the 64-bit version.

 

[SilverCircle]

Huge step backwards. This Opera Next is nothing more than a reskinned Chrome. Most of the cool features that made Opera worth using it are gone.

Imho, they should have used the development manpower to improve their rendering engine instead of ripping out every single feature that made Opera a unique browser.

Yeah, it's faster, but most of the performance gain is probably a result of simplifying the code so much and not because Webkit is so much faster than Presto (not saying it's not faster, it certainly is, but not by this magnitude).

 

[Forsaken]

Huge step backwards. This Opera Next is nothing more than a reskinned Chrome. Most of the cool features that made Opera worth using it are gone.

Imho, they should have used the development manpower to improve their rendering engine instead of ripping out every single feature that made Opera a unique browser.

Yeah, it's faster, but most of the performance gain is probably a result of simplifying the code so much and not because Webkit is so much faster than Presto (not saying it's not faster, it certainly is, but not by this magnitude).

Honestly, I'm fine with them adopting Chromium, I just wish they had spent the time implementing the core features people used Opera for.

It doesn't make much sense to work on new features without adding existing features that have kept their loyal customer base on a browser that is treated like a red headed step child by almost all developers.

 

[SilverCircle]

Honestly, I'm fine with them adopting Chromium, I just wish they had spent the time implementing the core features people used Opera for.

Basically, I'm fine too with it. Webkit (and its successor Blink) is a solid base for a browser. What I'm not fine with is the current trend of "dumbing down" browsers by removing most of the more advanced features. Opera is not alone, Firefox will soon follow when the new UI (Australis) lands which will remove a lot of customizations from the browser and will make Firefox like one more Chromium clone.

Everyone thinks that Chrome is so successful, because it is so simplified. It's not. It's successful, because Google is behind it and because it's simply working. People would still use it if it would allow for toolbar customizations or have a more advanced bookmark management.

 

[Forsaken]

Basically, I'm fine too with it. Webkit (and its successor Blink) is a solid base for a browser. What I'm not fine with is the current trend of "dumbing down" browsers by removing most of the more advanced features. Opera is not alone, Firefox will soon follow when the new UI (Australis) lands which will remove a lot of customizations from the browser and will make Firefox like one more Chromium clone.

Everyone thinks that Chrome is so successful, because it is so simplified. It's not. It's successful, because Google is behind it and because it's simply working. People would still use it if it would allow for toolbar customizations or have a more advanced bookmark management.

If they remove some customization it would be fine, however a lot of the features are things that are widely used and should have been left in the browser.

For a company with the smallest marketshare they should be much more careful about how they throw curveballs at their users.

 

[Biker]

Then there are those of us that despise Chrome and still think it's not ready for prime time.

 

[Jason]

Basically, I'm fine too with it. Webkit (and its successor Blink) is a solid base for a browser. What I'm not fine with is the current trend of "dumbing down" browsers by removing most of the more advanced features. Opera is not alone, Firefox will soon follow when the new UI (Australis) lands which will remove a lot of customizations from the browser and will make Firefox like one more Chromium clone.

Everyone thinks that Chrome is so successful, because it is so simplified. It's not. It's successful, because Google is behind it and because it's simply working. People would still use it if it would allow for toolbar customizations or have a more advanced bookmark management.

I don't know of many people that use bookmarks extensively, and I, myself, almost never use the bookmark manager, but rather access them through the omnibox. So, I'm genuinely curious what you consider an advanced bookmark manager and why that would be useful to most.

 

[Forsaken]

I don't know of many people that use bookmarks extensively, and I, myself, almost never use the bookmark manager, but rather access them through the omnibox. So, I'm genuinely curious what you consider an advanced bookmark manager and why that would be useful to most.

I'm OCD and organize the hell out of my bookmarks.

As I said I have 1000+ bookmarks and I add a lot when I find something I can use, something I might buy, or something that inspires me. I also bookmark a lot of articles in case I need them in the future.

Most Opera users were all power users. Many of them used at least a portion of the customization features, and a lot of the integrated features such as mail, chat, notes or the RSS reader. Some of them might make sense to remove, but a lot of core features or the productivity features will make Opera pointless to use and people will stick with 12.15 or just switch to Firefox or Chrome.

 

[SilverCircle]

I don't know of many people that use bookmarks extensively, and I, myself, almost never use the bookmark manager, but rather access them through the omnibox. So, I'm genuinely curious what you consider an advanced bookmark manager and why that would be useful to most.

Look at how Firefox lets you organize bookmarks with tags, keywords and descriptions. Really handy if you have *lots* of bookmarks (thousands, in my case) and search something you've bookmarked years ago.

It wouldn't be useful for most users though, probably the opposite would be the case, but that's no reason for killing a useful feature even it's not used by the majority of users. If that would be a valid argument, MS could kill 80% of all features in Word, because most people do not use them anyway.

The performance argument doesn't justify it either. On a reasonable fast and modern system, it really doesn't matter whether the browser can render a page 100 milliseconds faster - you're not going to notice that ever, because the majority of time is spent with downloading the content and this is where the real bottlenecks are today - unfortunately, many of these bottlenecks are caused by the ancient HTTP protocol.

On my desktop system (which can be considered pretty fast), I do not see any difference in page loading speed between Chrome and Firefox. Slow sites will load slow in both browsers and fast sites will load almost instantly in both browsers either.

 

[Matthew Hawley]

I would love an opera chromium build!

 

[Jason]

Look at how Firefox lets you organize bookmarks with tags, keywords and descriptions. Really handy if you have *lots* of bookmarks (thousands, in my case) and search something you've bookmarked years ago.

It wouldn't be useful for most users though, probably the opposite would be the case, but that's no reason for killing a useful feature even it's not used by the majority of users. If that would be a valid argument, MS could kill 80% of all features in Word, because most people do not use them anyway.

I was mostly just curious of what people, who bookmark heavily, would want in a bookmark manager, and whether non-power users would also find that beneficial. Even though there are extensions that cover some of this for Chrome, it may be a project, in my spare time, I'd be willing to take on for the core if it made sense.

Most Opera users were all power users. Many of them used at least a portion of the customization features, and a lot of the integrated features such as mail, chat, notes or the RSS reader. Some of them might make sense to remove, but a lot of core features or the productivity features will make Opera pointless to use and people will stick with 12.15 or just switch to Firefox or Chrome.

I agree with you, and hopefully most of those features are still on the table. Going completely native was a massive undertaking, and now that's out of the way perhaps they'll focus on those things. We'll see, I guess. I kind of like stash though, but then again I don't have near the amount of bookmarks as someone like yourself.

The performance argument doesn't justify it either. On a reasonable fast and modern system, it really doesn't matter whether the browser can render a page 100 milliseconds faster - you're not going to notice that ever, because the majority of time is spent with downloading the content and this is where the real bottlenecks are today - unfortunately, many of these bottlenecks are caused by the ancient HTTP protocol.

The DOM is often the real bottleneck for web app performance, and this is where work on the engine (eg., the selector engine) itself can make a huge impact (as most web apps make heavy use of JavaScript nowadays, and many of them manipulate the DOM).