Looking for Developer to take over addons

[ibaker]

I have paid to have some addons developed for XF v2 and I am looking for a developer who would like to take over the support and future development whilst obtaining all the income from them.

The fine print...
I am not a developer myself but are willing to invest the money to get these addons developed
I want to recoup my investment in the addons by getting some of the initial sales myself
The developer will need to maintain and support the addons
The developer will gain all income from the addons after my initial investment is recouped
The developer can charge users for any bespoke or enhancements they do to the addons
The developer gains all income from the addons when there is a new XF version
The developer promises to upgrade of the addons within 120 days of a new XF version
If the developer does not upgrade the addons within 120 days of a new XF version the developer relinquishes all rights to the addons (this is to ensure continuity for the addon customers and that the addon is not abandoned)

The addons at this stage consist of:
1. A side column main menu (as seen at www.whatsupaustralia.com.au)
2. A Forum to and from a facebook Group integration
3. A News Reader that displays entire News Pages in an iframe on a page not just an rss snippet
4. A Google Map of user entered points based on address or Lat and Long
5. And any other addons that I may get developed, possible an entire Classifieds system

The main objective is to provide professional addons that are well supported and users can be fully protected by being assured of continuity should a future xf version prevent them from working and the developer receives an acceptable income for their effort.

Is any respectable developer interested?

 

[XFA]

Hello,

We might be interested.

If you feel we would be good candidates, contact us per PM so we can get into further discussions on all the details either through PM or afterwards by Skype chat.

Clément

 

[Max]

So in simple, you get all your custom addon developed for free and the developer is legally bonded to give support and endless updates for free.
Nice plan.

 

[ŽivaAkcija]

So in simple, you get all your custom addon developed for free and even force the developer to give endless updates for free.
Nice plan.

its a great plan i support it+++

 

[trapped_soul]

the developer is legally bonded to give support and endless updates for free.

The developer will gain all income from the addons after my initial investment is recouped

The developer gains all income from the addons when there is a new XF version

 

[imno007]

Not to mention he paid to have them developed in the first place. The developers who took over would be getting addon's for which all the initial hard work is already done. Don't see anything "outrageous" in this proposal. Reading comprehension skills are in short supply.

 

[sbj]

Are we reading the same things?

If I am a developer, why would I bother with this at all?

He is just investing upfront the money, but later getting it all back. So basically he spends nothing. While the dev is forced to provide support for free for him and maintain the addon.

Why would I do that as a dev?

I could just make the same addon by myself and sell it. For what do we need him? I can start getting paid after the addon's release and wouldn't have to wait to pay the investment money. And I would be free to do whatever I want with the addon.

Are you guys sure, you understand the offer he is making?

 

[imno007]

Are we reading the same things?

If I am a developer, why would I bother with this at all?

He is just investing upfront the money, but later getting it all back. So basically he spends nothing. While the dev is forced to provide support for free for him and maintain the addon.

Why would I do that as a dev?

I could just make the same addon by myself and sell it. For what do we need him? I can start getting paid after the addon's release and wouldn't have to wait to pay the investment money. And I would be free to do whatever I want with the addon.

Are you guys sure, you understand the offer he is making?

Well, I'd say the only way to know for sure whether it was a good deal for the developer would be for the developer to contact him and see how much he's willing to pay, when it comes to the ones he still wants developed. At least he'd be paying something, whereas usually a developer working for himself would initially be working for nothing and with no guarantee of x-many sales. And he's only asking to recoup his initial costs, otherwise all the money would go to the devs, if I'm understanding it right. I can see some people stumbling over the 120 day clause, but really, if an addon hasn't been updated for more than four months after a new XF release, chances are good it's been abandoned. There's a couple things I would definitely ask for clarification on, but ultimately it's between him and the developer(s).

 

[sbj]

At least he'd be paying something, whereas usually a developer working for himself would initially be working for nothing and with no guarantee of x-many sales.

No, he'd be paying something only in the case of having not enough sales to recoup the initial investment. Then, and only in that case, he would have paid something. If there are enough sales, he would get his investment back and he would have paid nothing.

Which brings me to my next point. There is also no guarantee of x-many sales even when the developer is NOT working for himself. So imagine the case where the sales are bad. He would be forced to maintain and support a product which has almost no clients or a small amount of.

So in any case the developer loses, as in any case first of all the holder of the license is the investor in this particular case, as the 120 day clause rules it.
And no matter how the sales go, you are forced to support and maintain it. If the sales are bad, you got paid upfront but you have to support still, or if the sales went good, the investment is paid back and you are still forced to maintain it even though you paid the investment back.

It's a lose-lose situation, sorry for intervening, I didn't want to hijack this thread. Just I wanted to backup user @Max .

 

[imno007]

No, he'd be paying something, irregardless of whether or not he was able to recoup his costs. There are people who make their living off making investments, as I'm sure you must know, and other people whose success depends on those investments, and no one tries to argue that the investors never actually invested anything because they made at least their investment back. Lol, whatever. I don't care enough to invest any more energy arguing the matter. Again, in the last analysis, it's not really any business of mine or yours.

 

[sbj]

I don't care enough to invest any more energy arguing the matter. Again, in the last analysis, it's not really any business of mine or yours.

You don't care, but I do, so I will reply. And yes, it is not my business, I already stated that.

No, he'd be paying something, irregardless of whether or not he was able to recoup his costs.

How is it paying something, if he gets repaid fully? Do I have no math skills here? I pay 500 and get 500 back, it makes 0 in my book.

There are people who make their living off making investments, as I'm sure you must know, and other people whose success depends on those investments, and no one tries to argue that the investors never actually invested anything because they made at least their investment back. Lol, whatever.

I think you are forgetting something.

In real life, when an investor invests something, it means that the invested guy needs money in order to do whatever he needs to do.
Let's say I want to open a bakery, because I am a very skilled baker. So I do that. BUT if I don't have money, I ask an investor. So he gives me his money so I can open my bakery and then I can give him it back with interest.
But in our case, the developer doesn't need any money. What does it stop him to develop an addon by himself? For what does he need the investor here? The baker needs the money to find a location or get the gadgets, but I think a dev has already all things he needs.
And in real life the investor gets usually a % of the license, he is a shareholder.
In our case the license would go 100% to the investor. I don't think anyone would agree to that, as I am the worker here and you get the 100% license of my work?

Anyway, I made all points. Nothing to say say from my side, I wish everyone involved in this good luck and a good collaboration. XF needs a classifieds addon.

 

[imno007]

How do you know no developer needs money, or wouldn't be happy to get that initial investment in his work, whether he's totally dependent on it or not? People don't only accept investments when they absolutely can't make it on their own. You're supposing both a hypothetical premise and an ideal outcome: that x-developer needs no money, is happy to develop whatever addon with no guarantee of reward or profit for his work, yet in the end will (because he wills it, I guess) make enough of a profit from x-many sales that he'll be glad he never took this "Devil's deal".

And again, the developer is making something in this case, regardless of whether or not the OP makes his money back, whereas otherwise he might not make anything. Or maybe the developer, between what he's paid initially by the OP and the copies he sells, ends up making more with the two of those things combined than he would have with just the sales. Who knows? Okay, I'm really out now.

 

[Ozzy47]

How do you know no developer needs money, or wouldn't be happy to get that initial investment in his work, whether he's totally dependent on it or not? People don't only accept investments when they absolutely can't make it on their own. You're supposing both a hypothetical and an ideal outcome: that x-developer needs no money, is happy to develop whatever addon with no guarantee of reward or profit for his work, yet in the end will (because he wills it, I guess) make enough of a profit from x-many sales that he'll be glad he never took this "Devil's deal".

And again, the developer is making something in this case, regardless of whether or not the OP makes his money back, whereas otherwise he might not make anything. Or maybe the developer, between what he's paid initially by the OP and the copies he sells, ends up making more with the two of those things combined than he would have with just the sales. Who knows? Okay, I'm really out now.

I believe you are misunderstanding what the OP is proposing.

He is paying developer "A" to code several addons to his needs. He is then looking for developer "B" to take over the addons, support unknown code quality for the rest of his/her life without a guarantee of recouping any cost for time. It would be more lucrative for developer "B" to code his own addons and charge what he sees fit. In the plan laid out by the OP, the only one that is guaranteed to profit is developer "A".

 

[Alpha1]

In the plan laid out by the OP, the only one that is guaranteed to profit is developer "A".

For new addons there only is developer "A" who gets paid upfront for his work.

For existing addons there is the factor of copyright value to consider. But yes, there is the risk of spending man hours without pay.
I think that needs more thought. One idea is splitting income until @ibaker has recouped the costs. Or having the developer gain a certain amount of income first to mitigate the risk.

But in the end its a matter of what people want to agree to. And obviously there already is interest. And thats what matters.

 

[S Thomas]

He is paying developer "A" to code several addons to his needs. He is then looking for developer "B" to take over the addons, support unknown code quality for the rest of his/her life without a guarantee of recouping any cost for time. It would be more lucrative for developer "B" to code his own addons and charge what he sees fit. In the plan laid out by the OP, the only one that is guaranteed to profit is developer "A".

Completely false. If developer B sees the code and decides its not worth supporting it, he can drop the support at any time. 0 cost, 0 time, 0 work, 4 functional addons. Additionally, he can sell the addon until he is required to update the code - which would mean 4-8 weeks (XF update typically, don't quote me on that) plus 120 days (17! weeks). This is a good timeframe to decide if you, developer B, want to keep the addons or not.
You guys really should read the proposal again. Developer B can actually only win, depending on the cost and time.

 

[sbj]

To be fair, I had a discussion with someone privately and it may be not a bad of a deal as it seems to be. But it depends on some clarification of things. Good luck.

 

[Ozzy47]

Developer B can code the addons themselves and retain 100% of the profit, and not be obligated to restrictions from anyone and not having to support addons unpaid that may have been initially way overpriced. Developer B would be better off coding his own from the start. Anyway, I have no dog in this yard.

 

[S Thomas]

Developer B can code the addons themselves and retain 100% of the profit, and not be obligated to restrictions from anyone not having to support addons unpaid that may have been initially way overpriced. Developer B would be better off coding his own from the start.

As I said, completely false. Take X as developer A's charge and Y as developer B's charge. And Z as a cost factor for the amount of time which developer B has to support for "free".
In case X + Z < Y, well, developer B can only win. It really depends only on cost and time.
Besides that OP said

I want to recoup my investment in the addons by getting some of the initial sales myself

Some != all. This means you never are supporting for "free". And, as I said, you have the freedom of choice to drop the support whenever you want.
Now tell me, how is this not Win-Win for developer B? Developer B has a timeframe of 21-25 weeks in which he has to do literally nothing. But he is already making money.
If I was the OP, I would seriously rephrase or rethink the proposal. Actually, if he chooses a dev who is known for support in the community, it won't be necessary, but in theory, this is a serious loophole.

 

[ibaker]

Let me say that this all started with being sick and tired of spending money with addons only to find the addon developer either doesn't support their addon, shoots through after taking money from people and leaves a buggy addon or as we are now seeing addon developers NOT updating their addon when a new XF version is released leaving site's in a real mess with site owners left in a hole on what to do to keep their users happy.

This is the BIGGEST problem with Xenforo and why it is getting a bad name with many...all because of addon developers with most just being backyarders. Many XF site owners are now very seriously thinking about or have moved to IPS.

Now my problem is I am not a developer and need these addons for my site, and I think I am getting some really great addons for my site that I would like to share with other site owners. The thing is I have paid out money to have them so if other site owners would like to also use the addons then they should help to offset the cost out of my pocket used to have them developed in the first place.

I could just keep the addons myself for my own site afterall I paid for them but is that being a responsible community member?

So with me not being a developer and paid out money to have them developed, to release them to others who may like them they would need to be supported, which I can't do. Site owners also need to be assured of their continuation and not left out to be hung and dried by a backyarder. Hopefully this will also lift the credibility of addons with Xenforo.

At this stage it is looking like I could charge 5% of the cost of the addon which would mean the first 20 purchases would cover my cost. For example the side menu system (with Left or Right choice and sticky sub menu) cost me $250 so $12.50 for that. The facebook Group Integration System as listed here
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/facebook-group-integration-any-interest.150077/
is costing me $550 which would be worth it at $27.50 as an addon, again the first 20 purchases would cover my cost

The fear I have on this is the developer who might take this on will just take the money from purchases and when it dies down just simply stop supporting it and say goodbye so perhaps this is a bad idea but my intent was good so I don't know what to do, do I just keep them myself or help other site owners?

Incidentally, there are 2 more addons I am going to get developed:
1. A single sign on and registration between XF v2 and CS-cart, a shopping cart software solution...I already have this developed and working well for XF v1 so it just needs an upgrade
2. An auto sync/posting system between XF v2 post attachments and XF Media so users can add pictures and videos to posts, select a XF Media Gallery category and the attachment gets added to XF media keeping XF Media a single source of truth of all pictures and videos...the requirements of this are still to be defined

 

[S Thomas]

The fear I have on this is the developer who might take this on will just take the money from purchases and when it dies down just simply stop supporting it and say goodbye so perhaps this is a bad idea but my intent was good so I don't know what to do, do I just keep them myself or help other site owners?

This is exactly what I meant and we have seen that with numerous addons before, even from the bigger addon vendors out there. I guess the right approach would be something like the aMember integration where you (or the dev) sell the addon, but the dev gets paid for updating the addon in the first place, so he actually has a reason to update the addon and you have a solid contract.

I don't know how IPS handles that, though. Can you shed some light on that?