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logout on moderator bar [Deleted]

Adam Howard

Well-known member
#1
Adam Howard submitted a new resource:

logout on moderator bar - adds an easy to find logout option

What does this do?

This adds a nice log-out link in your moderator bar.

Why would I want this?

For easy access and for myself, because people would keep asking where on earth is the log-out button (for those pesky members who don't feel secure unless they can easily sign off when done).

Read in Full
(I'm going to give you choices)​


For easy template edits, we'll be using XenForo's new...
Read more about this resource...
 
#3
When i hit the templateModifications option in the ACP I get the following error...

Route template-modifications/ could not be found.

Is that the right option in the ACP to get started with this?
 

Jon W

Well-known member
#6
The idea is that you make the template modifications, save it in an add-on and then post the add-on here. I don't really understand why you haven't done that. I guess you don't like having lots of add-ons installed?

Anything that requires debug mode to be enabled is not something that should be recommended for non-developers.
 

Adam Howard

Well-known member
#7
When i hit the templateModifications option in the ACP I get the following error...

Route template-modifications/ could not be found.

Is that the right option in the ACP to get started with this?
AdminCP > Appearance > Template Modifications

If you're getting an error from that.... I susggest you re-upload your XenForo files. This is a core function of XenForo.
 

Adam Howard

Well-known member
#8
The idea is that you make the template modifications, save it in an add-on and then post the add-on here. I don't really understand why you haven't done that. I guess you don't like having lots of add-ons installed?

Anything that requires debug mode to be enabled is not something that should be recommended for non-developers.
XenForo processes add-ons differently -vs- template edits. Add-ons use a little more resource, so yes, I would prefer less add-ons & wouldn't want to add to people's resources if I can help it.

Debug mode is not technically required and can be FIXED by applying this patch ;)

http://xenforo.com/community/resources/restore-new-button-for-template-modifications.2247/
 

Jon W

Well-known member
#9
XenForo processes add-ons differently -vs- template edits. Add-ons use a little more resource, so yes, I would prefer less add-ons & wouldn't want to add to people's resources if I can help it.
This is not really true. If the add-on just contains template modifications it will have the tiniest effect on resources -- it would add about 20 bytes of code to the cache to say that there is an additional add-on enabled.
 

Adam Howard

Well-known member
#10
This is not really true. If the add-on just contains template modifications it will have the tiniest effect on resources -- it would add about 20 bytes of code to the cache to say that there is an additional add-on enabled.
So I save 20 byes not having this as an add-on, thus a simple template edit is better if you have A LOT of customizations. And thus, why I recommend using TMS.

Further, people have custom styles and rather than just giving them something that may not be compatible... I have supplied the actual code for review.

However, if you feel so strongly about it.... You're welcome to add an XML file of this template edit in the thread, for those who would prefer not using TMS & would like to add 20 more byes into their load. :)
 

Chris D

XenForo developer
Staff member
#12
Not going to get angry. But I would urge you not to write the merge system off as being more difficult or more work. It really isn't.

It handles templates being outdated way better than a template mod which would just potentially stop working without any obvious warning.

A manually edited template and the merge system would clearly show conflicts and allow you to rectify these conflicts at the click of a mouse. Much simpler.


My recommendation for best practice is:

1) let people decide
2) package an add on up with template modifications
3) detail the instructions of editing the templates directly so people can do that if they prefer
 

Adam Howard

Well-known member
#13
If you're that concerned about saving a few bytes/processing, edit the template directly.
Easier in TMS which will apply it to all style (for those of use who have more than one), rather than editing them 1 by 1. And safer & easier to manager than using the merge tool when upgrading.

It's a personal preference perhaps, but one I'll continue to uphold (and I'm not alone).
 

Adam Howard

Well-known member
#14
would just potentially stop working without any obvious warning.
Good. Preferred. (y)

I much would rather that if X isn't compatible, that it simply disables its self safely & usually out of view of the public -vs- some "large mess" of code and errors in public view, while I attempt to handle the merging of code in the merge tool.

Keep in mind most people re-edit the same templates more than once. For example, I have 2 edits in my navigation template. Neither of those edits have anything to do with the other. And if only 1 of them becomes incompatible, TMS will safely disable that 1 edit it (by not applying it), thus not affecting the other compatible entry & I can review it myself, manually to fix it.

Best of all, unlike the merge tool.... I don't need to try to recall what each edit was for. Or add developer notes inside my template. TMS keeps things well organized and my notes (descriptions) are viewable, before I even see a line of code. So I know exactly what each TMS entry is for, before I even start. :)

Again, perhaps this is a personal preference. And of course, please do have the choice to edit it manually, but I personally do think the TMS makes things easier.
 
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Chris D

XenForo developer
Staff member
#15
I'm not going to bother replying to your message because I already knew what you'd respond with.

Thanks for living up to expectations (y)

I'll let you work out for yourself the inaccuracies in your last post, then, as clearly editing templates and the merge tool is completely unintuitive.
 

Adam Howard

Well-known member
#16
I'm not going to bother replying to your message because I already knew what you'd respond with.

Thanks for living up to expectations (y)

I'll let you work out for yourself the inaccuracies in your last post, then, as clearly editing templates and the merge tool is completely unintuitive.
Again, its a personal preference and TMS is very intuitive from my prospective. Most of the newbies whom I help debug their sites for upgrades, prefer it vs manually editing a whole template.

This is one of those times when developer vs common folk (the people) see it different.

I'm going to side with the common folk, who want it quick & easy. :)
 

Chris D

XenForo developer
Staff member
#17
I'm sorry. I have to correct you after all because it wouldn't be right for you to continue with an incorrect understanding of how the template and merge system work. It's not right in case someone else reads you post and gets the wrong idea also.

I much would rather that if X isn't compatible, that it simply disables its self safely & usually out of view of the public -vs- some "large mess" of code and errors in public view, while I attempt to handle the merging of code in the merge tool.
If you manually edit a template, and that template is subsequently updated in the core, it is not possible to create any large mess nor is there a race against time to resolve any conflicts.

Just like has always been the case, the template is marked outdated and is not automatically updated. This means your manual edit remains. That's surely preferable because in the case of the TM system that customisation disappears thus potentially altering the user experience or causing issues with other things.

Of course the big difference now is the action taken after an outdated template.

Before it was necessary to revert a template and reapply your edits. What a nightmare.

Now that is not the case. Your template remains valid and the merge template feature clearly show the differences between your template and the new version.

Often new content added to the template is highlighted but can be automatically merged into the existing template. Sometimes there is a conflict that may require a little more thought. But in my experience so far these conflicts are rare and easy to rectify.

The rest is your preference so fine. But please don't have this fundamental misunderstanding of how it works. And also, please do try some manual template edits. I'm amazed at how many people write them off without even trying it. It works fantastically well.

You will continue to do it your own way of course, but understand the other ways better and maybe you'll one day find it is better or a combination of the two works well.
 

Adam Howard

Well-known member
#18
Results may very. Your experience does not match the experience I or others I've worked with have experienced.

Let's break it down shall we.... Since I feel I need to correct you. :)

(not necessarily correct you, but open you up to other possibilities that experiences do vary and are not universal)

If you manually edit a template, and that template is subsequently updated in the core, it is not possible to create any large mess nor is there a race against time to resolve any conflicts.
Um, wrong and I'll tell you why....
marked outdated and is not automatically updated.
This is why....

So now you've got a blend of outdated templates mixing with current code. Depending on what is updated and what is still spitting out now conflicting code.... I've seen this spit out errors & leave white page (so have others).

The TMS doesn't do this. It simply disabled your edit and updates everything else. Now you can manually, in your free time, review that and update it as needed.

So say for example, I have 1 edit in PAGE CONTAINER. That template is very important and affects the whole site. Your merge system just updated every template in XenForo, but didn't update PAGE CONTAINER.

But in TMS, PAGE CONTAINER would be updated, safely. And if the TMS entry wasn't compatible, it would disable it and I could get to it.

This means your manual edit remains. That's surely preferable because in the case of the TM system that customisation disappears thus potentially altering the user experience or causing issues with other things.
Again, this is a matter of prospective. Arguably in my example, the same thing just happened doing it your way.

The difference from my experience is that I don't have to try to recall what my edit is for because TMS is going to tell me what that edit was being used for. And I did it without having to add css notes into my code or scrolling looking at other notices. Just 1 simple, TMS edit and I'm done.

Of course the big difference now is the action taken after an outdated template.
As it does in the TMS. Again, preference.


Now that is not the case. Your template remains valid and the merge template feature clearly show the differences between your template and the new version.
Have you seen the layout of the thing? Not exactly easy to follow. It is an improvement, but you're not exactly seeing this in a side by side view.

The rest is your preference so fine.
This is where we agree and this is really what it comes down to. Some people will find the TMS easier to use and others will prefer looking at the whole template, going line by line.

But please don't have this fundamental misunderstanding of how it works. And also, please do try some manual template edits. I'm amazed at how many people write them off without even trying it. It works fantastically well.
I have and I prefer the TMS. So do other people and that’s why I include the instructions in all my template modifications. It's why this patch was made http://xenforo.com/community/resources/restore-new-button-for-template-modifications.2247/

I'm all for choice and people are free to do it their way.

You will continue to do it your own way of course, but understand the other ways better and maybe you'll one day find it is better or a combination of the two works well.
This is where we differ.... I'm not trying to force anyone to do it my way or argue which is better. But I have 3 developers in this thread doing so, with me just simply stating why I included the option.

I think I will continue to do it my way and will continue to give people choices :)
 
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