just ate raw eggs

[AzzidReign]

It's a bad idea not just because of the taste, but also the nutritional value (bioavailability) is only about half that of cooked. There's also a risk of salmonellosis.

It's something I haven't put much research into...but one thing I found interesting from my chemistry days was...what happens to proteins when you heat them up? They turn white. Why are they white? They are denatured.

So while you say raw is not as bioavailable...cooked to me = denatured proteins. And while you can digest (or partially digest) such proteins, they may appear to the body as foreign objects and begin an immune response. If it's a big response, it may lead to an autoimmune disease.

Honestly, the best source of protein would be dark leafy greens. We are always taught to get our proteins from meat, but dark leafy greens are actually the way to go.

 

[jonsidneyb]

Extreme starvation works if you have strong will and discipline to endure it and then have strength to get out of it. Not a healthy way of losing weight though. I remember watching an old Soviet documentary about a group of healthy adults (males and females) embarking on two weeks hiking trip (if memory serves me well) with no food, just water. They discuss their struggle with the feeling of hunger. The first three days were the hardest, some had headaches; but after that it was managable.

Wild animals can go without food for days. They evolved to go through times of no food. I don't think our ancient ancestors had 3-4 times a day meals either.

Most animals work at not burning calories that do not need to be burned. The animals in cages are also very idle.

They tend to be more idle than you think except for when in the search for food or mating. On the hiking deal look at the people that do endurance hiking. If they followed what people call a healty diet they could not make it. That is 4 months of burning between 6000 and 7000 calories a day. The world is a lot less labor intensive as it used to be as well the guys hauling hay (following a truck tossing 80 pound bales onto it from dawn till dusk cannot be done on low calories for very many weeks. When humans where hunter gatherers they had to cover more area than you might imagine to find food and you could play out an area faster than you might think. Agriculture boosted the food supply but it was labor intensive.

I was a college athlete and was down to 6% body fat during the season but I didn't starve to do it, I still took in more calories back then than the average sedetary person, I simply was constantly burning the calories. I am convinced that nutrition has to be matched to the activity level of the person and invironment that people live in.

 

[dutchbb]

It's something I haven't put much research into...but one thing I found interesting from my chemistry days was...what happens to proteins when you heat them up? They turn white. Why are they white? They are denatured.

So while you say raw is not as bioavailable...cooked to me = denatured proteins. And while you can digest (or partially digest) such proteins, they may appear to the body as foreign objects and begin an immune response. If it's a big response, it may lead to an autoimmune disease.

Honestly, the best source of protein would be dark leafy greens. We are always taught to get our proteins from meat, but dark leafy greens are actually the way to go.

The peptide bonds of the amino acids are still there, it's only the secondary and tertiary structures that are altered. Some protein is destroyed however when baking/cooking. For your other claims evidence is of course required. Dark leafy greens are very healthy, but to get all essential amino acids, you have to combine them with other plant sources. It's also harder to get high amounts of protein from plant foods, which can be a challenge when opting for a high-protein, low-carb, hypo-energetic diet.

 

[AzzidReign]

The peptide bonds of the amino acids are still there, it's only the secondary and tertiary structures that are altered. Some protein is destroyed however when baking/cooking. For your other claims evidence is of course required. Dark leafy greens are very healthy, but to get all essential amino acids, you have to combine them with other plant sources. It's also harder to get high amounts of protein from plant foods, which can be a challenge when opting for a high-protein, low-carb, hypo-energetic diet.

If you don't want to believe me about the dark leafy greens, that's up to you. I've done my research and sought out the information. If you want to increase your knowledge on the subject, I'd suggest you do the same and do some research. Dark leafy greens most certainly gives you all the essential, non-essential, and conditionally essential amino acids when you have different leafy greens in your diet. These are all available right away rather than with protein, in which your body must digest (which most people from what I've seen in my patients, have a tough time digesting protein unless they are given an enzyme supplement to aid their bodies in it...and if they aren't taking the enzyme supplement then they are most likely getting partially digested proteins which the body cannot utilize leading to allergies and autoimmune diseases). Say you can digest animal protein, your body will then have to break it down into the amino acid sources, then resynthesize it into a protein that the body can utilize. Getting amino acids directly from dark leafy greens allows your body to do less work and have access to more amino acids (which are the building blocks for everything in the body, not just building muscle but I'm sure you know that - just noting it for those that may not know) to synthesize into proteins if that's what the body demands.

If you combine kale, spinach, and watercress and blend it into a green smoothie, you will get more than enough vitamins, nutrients, and amino acids to get through your workouts and build muscle. But again, don't take my word for it, there's tons of books, articles, and other information on the net (most likely) about this for you to gather your own opinion on the matter.

Oh, I was just about to hit submit when I re-read your last statement. You are typically right (for most people) about how it's hard to get "protein" from plant foods. Reason being is, most people don't chew their veggies properly (not to mention they are cooking them which kills much of the benefits). When you don't chew your veggies and greens well, you aren't breaking the cellulose walls and since our body's do not create cellulase to break down such walls, the only way to do so is chewing them into a good mush. If you don't want to do that all the time, then green smoothies are the way to go and they taste great. You are getting a lot of raw fruits, veggies and greens that way and the blender (if you get a high end one) will pulverize the cellulose walls allowing your body to gain easy access to all of the nutrients.

 

[Digital Doctor]

Why are they white? They are denatured. So while you say raw is not as bioavailable...cooked to me = denatured proteins.

True ... but ...

Cooked = denatured = killed denatured bacteria = safer = better absorbed = better for you.

Honestly, the best source of protein would be dark leafy greens. We are always taught to get our proteins from meat, but dark leafy greens are actually the way to go.

There is either zero or near zero protein in most if not all leafy greens. Of course most greens are excellent for you but contain very few calories, virtually no protein, and often no fat.

Grades:
[A+] science
[ D ] nutrition

 

[Digital Doctor]

If leafy greens are your only source of protein / amino acids ... here is your future: Kwashiorkor
100g of Kale = 2 grams of poor quality protein = 8 calories.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kale
100g of Kale is quite a bit.
Your theory about chewing kale well to extract more protein is like saying you can get blood from stone.

 

[AzzidReign]

True ... but ...

Cooked = denatured = killed denatured bacteria = safer = better absorbed = better for you.


There is either zero or near zero protein in most if not all leafy greens. Of course most greens are excellent for you but contain very few calories, virtually no protein, and often no fat.

Grades:
[A+] science
[ D ] nutrition

lmao Yes, you are a medical doctor or a wannabe...I can tell. Bacteria is everywhere. When you kill the bacteria in/on your food, you kill and alter all of the nutrients, thus killing your shot at your body having a better immune system to ward of such invaders. Congratulations, you are now going to be an open market to all the bacteria, virus, parasite, and fungi everywhere you turn. It's a matter of time before the body loses all it's resources due to cooking the food. Real smart.

If leafy greens are your only source of protein / amino acids ... here is your future: Kwashiorkor
100g of Kale = 2 grams of poor quality protein = 8 calories.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kale
100g of Kale is quite a bit.
Your theory about chewing kale well to extract more protein is like saying you can get blood from stone.

Oh I'm sorry, you get your medical information and research from wikipedia. Let me bow down. I can already tell you that page is crap because it says nothing about amino acid content. Would you rather have 2g of fully digestible protein, or 20g of partially digestible protein. You are posing as an MD...I'm not sure if you are or not, but if you actually know your stuff, you should know what partially digested protein can lead to. Plus, you mark me down on Nutrition, I'm sorry, what do MD's take...3 credit hours? Isn't nutrition the sluff off class for you guys (assuming you are an MD or medical student by the way you are talking)? Let's see here, I took around 12 required hours at my school, 100 hours for Internal Health Specialist (which is something that will blow your world in terms of physiology and digestion physiology), 300 hours in Applied Kinesiology which my mentor is a huge proponent in nutrition as well as a certified clinical neurologist so I gained much insight, I've done extra research into food physiology and have read many books including Pottengers Cats and Nutritional and Physical Degeneration, continue to read articles as well as come up with theories that I will soon be testing, etc. Now tell me, as a medical doctor or student, are you familiar or have taken extra courses in anything involved with nutrition? From what I've seen and read, the medical community in general will not accept food as being "thy medicine" even though your founder of the medical world was quoted as saying such.

It's funny you should mention Kwashiorkor. All those that I know that live on a raw food diet, resemble NOTHING close to Kwashiorkor. Yet another fallacy of the medical community. I'd like to see hospital admits of people on a raw diet diagnosed with such. I can see this happening with non-raw diets or SAD diets, but I'd have a very hard time believing that a raw diet would result in such.

And while you are at it, you should look up all the leafy greens. Most are anti-inflammatory. If you are on top of research in the medical field, then you would know that it is systemic inflammation that causes major things like heart disease and stroke. On top of that, in labs it has been show that animal fat leads to increasing of cancer and tumor sizes. So again I'll ask, would you rather get your sources from dark leafy greens where the amino acids are right there for your body to utilize? Or would you rather get it from animal sources that have been shown to increase inflammation, cancer/tumor, and possibly autoimmune disorders?

And to quote you "Your theory about chewing kale well to extract more protein is like saying you can get blood from stone.". This is no theory, this is science... Did you not pay attention in school? Do you know what cellulose is? The only way our body can break that down is mechanically. So you tell me...what is the mechanical process in our body to break that wall down? Hmm.m......must be chewing!!! I feel bad for you if you really haven't gotten this in any of your course or if you are just a poser, any of your readings online. I really do... But if I may, how do you suggest our body's break down the cellulose walls that are found in fruits and veggies?!?!?! lol

 

[Digital Doctor]

You win !!!

 

[AzzidReign]

View attachment 27655

You win !!!

lol But again, as I said earlier, don't take my word for it, inform yourself and do more reading/research. Just because I said something doesn't make it right or just because "joe blow" said something doesn't make it right. Read stuff and come up with your own conclusion. There is bad information out there and if it doesn't sound like "sound science" then you are likely correct. Learning this stuff is hella fun...and shatters your world at the same time as you've been told all these things from people that aren't qualified to tell you things (school teachers, gym teachers, and many personal trainers/body builders) yet we have heard it all our lives and take it in as truths. But when you start digging deeper, you most certainly will shatter your own world and realize "wtf have I been doing all this time?" lol

 

[mrGTB]

you most certainly will shatter your own world and realize "wtf have I been doing all this time?" lol

I'm thinking WFT reading the last few pages... I'm off to cut that big tree down in my back garden with dark green leaves, won't have to buy food in now for a whole year...

 

[dutchbb]

If you don't want to believe me about the dark leafy greens, that's up to you. I've done my research and sought out the information.

It's not about what you or I believe, it's about what we can prove. You may have to do some more research.

If you want to increase your knowledge on the subject, I'd suggest you do the same and do some research.

I already have. I have studied this subject for over 15 years now and I have a degree. I also am a personal trainer, have helped people for over 10 years with their diets, and I run a big board forum where we discuss this and many other related topics every single day. We base our knowledge on both science and personal experience.

Dark leafy greens most certainly gives you all the essential, non-essential, and conditionally essential amino acids when you have different leafy greens in your diet.

Actually, most plant sources do not contain all essential amino acids. They also contain a very low amount of protein. And they do not contain all essential micronutrients either. Especially if you only eat green vegetables, both quality and quantity will become a problem. Therefore, a vegetarian diet always has to contain a variety of plant sources at the right quantity. Not just to get all the essential amino acids, but also to get enough of them. And if you eat only green vegetables, you are most certainly guaranteed to have deficits in certain micronutrients. This is even acknowledged by the vegetarian community.

These are all available right away rather than with protein, in which your body must digest (which most people from what I've seen in my patients, have a tough time digesting protein unless they are given an enzyme supplement to aid their bodies in it...and if they aren't taking the enzyme supplement then they are most likely getting partially digested proteins which the body cannot utilize leading to allergies and autoimmune diseases).

Raw vegetables are not necessarily easier to digest than animal protein sources. The protein in plant sources needs to be broken down by the body just as with animal sources. Again, show evidence for your claim that animal protein sources only digest partially. I have never read this, it sounds like complete hogwash to me. Unless you are talking about milk and lactose. But that is not even protein related. I am of course talking about healthy people with no allergies.

Say you can digest animal protein, your body will then have to break it down into the amino acid sources, then resynthesize it into a protein that the body can utilize. Getting amino acids directly from dark leafy greens allows your body to do less work and have access to more amino acids (which are the building blocks for everything in the body, not just building muscle but I'm sure you know that - just noting it for those that may not know) to synthesize into proteins if that's what the body demands.

Amino acids directly from vegetables??

All protein needs to be digested, the body can not absorb any protein. Protein is always broken down into amino acids through digestion. It doesn't matter if it's a plant or animal source.

If you combine kale, spinach, and watercress and blend it into a green smoothie, you will get more than enough vitamins, nutrients, and amino acids to get through your workouts and build muscle. But again, don't take my word for it, there's tons of books, articles, and other information on the net (most likely) about this for you to gather your own opinion on the matter.

Actually you will not have enough protein, minerals or even vitamins. There is no way you will build any muscle from just eating that. Impossible.

I would suggest you register at our forums but they are in Dutch. However we do have one international sub-forum in English available to you. You could learn a lot about building muscle, believe me.

Oh, I was just about to hit submit when I re-read your last statement. You are typically right (for most people) about how it's hard to get "protein" from plant foods. Reason being is, most people don't chew their veggies properly (not to mention they are cooking them which kills much of the benefits). When you don't chew your veggies and greens well, you aren't breaking the cellulose walls and since our body's do not create cellulase to break down such walls, the only way to do so is chewing them into a good mush. If you don't want to do that all the time, then green smoothies are the way to go and they taste great. You are getting a lot of raw fruits, veggies and greens that way and the blender (if you get a high end one) will pulverize the cellulose walls allowing your body to gain easy access to all of the nutrients.

Cellulose can't be digested by humans very well, doesn't matter how much you chew.

Furthermore, cellulose if we could digest it, would only be broken down to glucose, no amino acids.

 

[dutchbb]

View attachment 27655

You win !!!

Actually no, he didn't. Just because he says a lot should not scare you into thinking he must be right.

To me it's just sad to see people spreading this absolute nonsense.

 

[AzzidReign]

Actually no, he didn't. Just because he says a lot should not scare you into thinking he must be right.

To me it's just sad to see people spreading this absolute nonsense.

Nonsense? Lol!!!I was actually saying the same thing to some people from this site and they appreciate my point of view. At least they will go out and look up my claims rather than shoot them down with out anything backing it up.

If you don't think I won, that's totally fine, but I will continue to knock off many of your incorrect "statements" that are trying to prove me wrong. You definitely need to do some extra research on the matter and I, for one, should not have to re-prove it to myself just because you asked for it or hand feed you the information...I'm assuming you are a big boy now and know where you can find the research if you even have access to such, or just books about this stuff. I got my doctorate in chiropractic (which has extra courses in nutrition compared to many other doctorate degrees and MD's), certificates in other health/food/digestive topics equaling to over 400 hours, constant contact with people who are seeing patterns with certain things and finding the solution to such problems with digestion, etc. So again, I've based my thoughts and findings off of science and if you decide to not believe it nor seek the truth, that is all on you.

FYI, the only reason some people have a tough time digesting raw veggies is because they eat them like their big macs...3 bites and swallow. As I said earlier, you must chew your food thoroughly even though you appear to not believe in that concept even after I stated the science behind it lol Many of the nutrients are contained in the cellulose walls...again, you must be basing your knowledge off of 15+ year old information that is no longer relevant to this conversation.

You seem to not have an appreciation for fruits, veggies, and greens (note how I keep saying greens and not lumping them with veggies? Maybe you should research why that is)...you claim that one cannot get their "daily intake of nutrients and vitamins" from plant sources. How is it chimpanzees can? They are a mere 99.4% the same as us (hence the reason so much research for humans has been first tested on them).

Notice how they don't each any meat? How are they able to survive, for the most part, healthy (lol much healthier than industrialized nations have become...especially the US) only on a raw food diet? Many people across the world are doing it right and many are doing it wrong so I'm going to assume you've been lecturing to me about the wrong ones.

Amino acids directly from vegetables??

All protein needs to be digested, the body can not absorb any protein. Protein is always broken down into amino acids through digestion. It doesn't matter if it's a plant or animal source.

Again, I keep separating greens from veggies as they are completely different foods. And yes, amino acids from greens, did I stutter? And yes, it most certainly matters if it's plant or animal...you REALLY need to take some more classes in digestion physiology. Whey and Casein is definitely not good for you. Casein has been linked to increase in cancer in populations. I could go into many reasons why but I doubt you will even listen to that and just pluck random things from the sentence and try to twist my words like you've elegantly have been doing. I really suggest you take an Internal Health Specialist course and have Dr. Loomis tell you why he doesn't use animal products in his supplements and why he uses pea protein for his protein supplement and not whey or casein. He will tell you what I've been trying to say (can't fully digest it, toxic to the body). But hey man...if you really don't want to believe in a true scientist and pioneer of the digestive physiology world like Dr. Loomis has become, that is up to you and you can continue getting your protein sources only from your meats.

I will not be subjecting my own knowledge to a site (yours) that is likely filled with people who don't know what they are talking about. I've been to body building sites in my early days and regret even looking at them now that I know what I'm doing. You guys (in general body builders) suggest things that are highly toxic to the body and brain just so you can get bigger muscles. I'm sorry, that's not for me...I'll keep my mind and body healthy at the expense of not looking like a meat heat thank you very much.

Cellulose can't be digested by humans very well, doesn't matter how much you chew.

Furthermore, cellulose if we could digest it, would only be broken down to glucose, no amino acids.

Did you do ANY reading on cellulose walls and digestion before you posted this? I suggest you do so before you continue on trying to look smart.

Actually, most plant sources do not contain all essential amino acids.

I'd like to know where you researched that tidbit because right in front of me is a list of all the amino acids found in Lambsquatters and Kale (I don't feel like typing romaine, parsley, turnip greens, spinach, etc.). I also have the mineral and vitamin break downs right here as well. It appears that both Lambsquatters and Kale contain all the essential amino acids so your statement right there, along with others I've pointed out, is yet again false. So while you tell me I need science and research to back up my claims, I have all that sitting on my bookshelf, research articles I've read (do you even get access to pubmed like I do? Unless you are an MD or DC...or have paid for it out of pocket, I doubt you do), notes from courses I've taken, etc. You've only told me you are a personal trainer and when I've had run ins with that profession (no matter how old or how young they were), it's not pretty. I've yet to run into one that I'll agree with on diet...even the ones on tv are horrible with diet. Suggesting protein bars? Sugar-free stuff (aspartame filled crap)? Bread? Anything else processed? While I can see that the goal is to help people lose weight and gain muscle...you are subjecting those very people to toxic chemicals that will cause problems later on down the road unless you are able to get them on a detox program and then a good dietary program.

They also contain a very low amount of protein. And they do not contain all essential micronutrients either. Especially if you only eat green vegetables, both quality and quantity will become a problem. Therefore, a vegetarian diet always has to contain a variety of plant sources at the right quantity.

1. I've proven part of this quote incorrect already. 2, I'm not talking about a vegetarian diet...that is vastly different than a raw diet...hell, it's vastly different than a 51% raw diet.

 

[mrGTB]

Just enjoyed reading all this while eating my Chinese chicken omelet, rice and curry take-away. I even got greens with it, as advised - Garden Peas!

 

[AzzidReign]

Also, a little bit more of background on me and why I've taken a passion to this. I've struggled with headaches since I could remember. "Regular" chiropractic (I say regular because it was just me laying on the table and them trying to "adjust" every bone in my spine - the technique I've chosen is very specific and often times I don't adjust because I'm trying to increase function of organs due to visceral-somatic responses causing subluxations and even energy/meridians causing a whole host of other problems...so I consider what I do to be above and beyond chiropractic but with chiro as my foundation)...anyways, regular chiropractic helped reduce my headaches down from 6-7 days a week to about 4-5. Better than nothing. Then I went to a friend that does the technique I decided to start doing and he reduced it down to 2-3 days a week after suggesting a specific supplement he tested me for.

While I thought 2-3x/week was great, it wasn't 0x/month (which is normal function). I then began looking at diet. Taking extra courses on top of my ~33 credit hours a semester work load. While I learned a lot, it seemed to be only helping the people I was treating (though I was trying to "self medicate" so to speak, so that may be why). I started doing more and more research. I first ran across the Pottengers Cat study which really peaked my interest in raw food diets. And due to that doctor, I ran across the foundation called Pottenger Price Foundation, which lead me to the workings of Weston Price. See, he was a dentist and he was always told that bad/crooked teeth, small jaws, etc. were because of poor genes but since he was able to treat the grandparents, parents and kids, he noted that it seemed every generation kept getting worse and worse. So he went out to seek the question "why?". His travels lead him overseas to many tribes who were solely on a raw food diet. He had noted that these people had exceptionally great teeth, ~0 decay, strong jaws, good jaw structure, and something he wasn't looking for....almost no disease. How could it be? Without western medication? Yeah. Not sure if this link works but you can see some of the pictures he had taken (here). The ones with the horrible looking mouths are the ones where he introduced our "Western Food" to the tribes.

The story goes on and I think it would be great if more people read the Price book (Nutrition and Physical Degeneration)...even the Pottenger book, it's like 50-60 pages if that. But this all lead me to researching more and more into the raw food diet. I came across "Green Smoothies". It made sense to me (if you've read my past posts in this thread I've hinted at this) and I thought I should try it. Due to my profession, I will try things prior to subjecting my patients to things...I like to make sure in my heart that what I'm suggesting works. So I started doing the green smoothies. I had a slight detox process in the first few days but what I had noticed was my mind fog was lifting, my energy levels were regaining which gave me a motivation to increase my workouts, I felt much happier, wasn't as agitated with small things, my bloating went away, etc. My wife had a similar reaction even to the point where she didn't need to use coffee at all during her 12 hour night shift (nurse - so that right there was very incredible for us).

Through all of this, aside from the first few days during my slight detox, I no longer get headaches like I use to. I get maybe 2-3 a month now. Not perfect, but definitely getting there (could be due to my "bad" food days I do when we run out of food in our house). Though, I'm not on a 100% raw food diet yet...still trying to grow some balls and suck it up and just do it. I'll be doing a 10 day green smoothie fast and then after that I'll be attempting a more 100% raw food diet.

 

[AzzidReign]

Just enjoyed reading all this while eating my Chinese chicken omelet, rice and curry take-away. I even got greens with it, as advised - Garden Peas!

lol when I say greens...I guess I should have clarified, I mean dark leafy greens. So greens and veggies are 2 different things. Just thought I'd point that out in case there was any more confusion.

 

[mrGTB]

I know, I'm just posting some light humour. Although, I really have just had that meal with green peas ordered as extra.

 

[erich37]

check out this guy

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[Jake Bunce]

Screw this. I'm gonna get a juicer today. Juice my raw foods. Should be easier to eat that way.

 

[Forsaken]

Nonsense? Lol!!!I was actually saying the same thing to some people from this site and they appreciate my point of view. At least they will go out and look up my claims rather than shoot them down with out anything backing it up.

If you don't think I won, that's totally fine, but I will continue to knock off many of your incorrect "statements" that are trying to prove me wrong. You definitely need to do some extra research on the matter and I, for one, should not have to re-prove it to myself just because you asked for it or hand feed you the information...I'm assuming you are a big boy now and know where you can find the research if you even have access to such, or just books about this stuff. I got my doctorate in chiropractic (which has extra courses in nutrition compared to many other doctorate degrees and MD's), certificates in other health/food/digestive topics equaling to over 400 hours, constant contact with people who are seeing patterns with certain things and finding the solution to such problems with digestion, etc. So again, I've based my thoughts and findings off of science and if you decide to not believe it nor seek the truth, that is all on you.

FYI, the only reason some people have a tough time digesting raw veggies is because they eat them like their big macs...3 bites and swallow. As I said earlier, you must chew your food thoroughly even though you appear to not believe in that concept even after I stated the science behind it lol Many of the nutrients are contained in the cellulose walls...again, you must be basing your knowledge off of 15+ year old information that is no longer relevant to this conversation.

You seem to not have an appreciation for fruits, veggies, and greens (note how I keep saying greens and not lumping them with veggies? Maybe you should research why that is)...you claim that one cannot get their "daily intake of nutrients and vitamins" from plant sources. How is it chimpanzees can? They are a mere 99.4% the same as us (hence the reason so much research for humans has been first tested on them).

Notice how they don't each any meat? How are they able to survive, for the most part, healthy (lol much healthier than industrialized nations have become...especially the US) only on a raw food diet? Many people across the world are doing it right and many are doing it wrong so I'm going to assume you've been lecturing to me about the wrong ones.



Again, I keep separating greens from veggies as they are completely different foods. And yes, amino acids from greens, did I stutter? And yes, it most certainly matters if it's plant or animal...you REALLY need to take some more classes in digestion physiology. Whey and Casein is definitely not good for you. Casein has been linked to increase in cancer in populations. I could go into many reasons why but I doubt you will even listen to that and just pluck random things from the sentence and try to twist my words like you've elegantly have been doing. I really suggest you take an Internal Health Specialist course and have Dr. Loomis tell you why he doesn't use animal products in his supplements and why he uses pea protein for his protein supplement and not whey or casein. He will tell you what I've been trying to say (can't fully digest it, toxic to the body). But hey man...if you really don't want to believe in a true scientist and pioneer of the digestive physiology world like Dr. Loomis has become, that is up to you and you can continue getting your protein sources only from your meats.

I will not be subjecting my own knowledge to a site (yours) that is likely filled with people who don't know what they are talking about. I've been to body building sites in my early days and regret even looking at them now that I know what I'm doing. You guys (in general body builders) suggest things that are highly toxic to the body and brain just so you can get bigger muscles. I'm sorry, that's not for me...I'll keep my mind and body healthy at the expense of not looking like a meat heat thank you very much.



Did you do ANY reading on cellulose walls and digestion before you posted this? I suggest you do so before you continue on trying to look smart.



I'd like to know where you researched that tidbit because right in front of me is a list of all the amino acids found in Lambsquatters and Kale (I don't feel like typing romaine, parsley, turnip greens, spinach, etc.). I also have the mineral and vitamin break downs right here as well. It appears that both Lambsquatters and Kale contain all the essential amino acids so your statement right there, along with others I've pointed out, is yet again false. So while you tell me I need science and research to back up my claims, I have all that sitting on my bookshelf, research articles I've read (do you even get access to pubmed like I do? Unless you are an MD or DC...or have paid for it out of pocket, I doubt you do), notes from courses I've taken, etc. You've only told me you are a personal trainer and when I've had run ins with that profession (no matter how old or how young they were), it's not pretty. I've yet to run into one that I'll agree with on diet...even the ones on tv are horrible with diet. Suggesting protein bars? Sugar-free stuff (aspartame filled crap)? Bread? Anything else processed? While I can see that the goal is to help people lose weight and gain muscle...you are subjecting those very people to toxic chemicals that will cause problems later on down the road unless you are able to get them on a detox program and then a good dietary program.




1. I've proven part of this quote incorrect already. 2, I'm not talking about a vegetarian diet...that is vastly different than a raw diet...hell, it's vastly different than a 51% raw diet.

I totally called it on how someone in this thread would reply didn't I .

For people doubting what Azzid says, my stepdad who is a doctor, my ex girlfriend who is a dietitian and my current doctor have all said similar things that support what Azzid is saying (I'm dieting because of recent surgery and not being able to get as much activity as my body is use to).