Implemented Infraction System: *please* make it friendly to the enduser

Grover

Grover

Well-known member
Well,

I've just received an infraction on a vB-related website (my 2nd overall in 9 years, so I am doing good ;)). It's no point sharing the details (but apparently I made a mistake by friendly inviting people over to XenForo...<-- okeee, *some* details then!), because I don't want to start a discussion that is not constructive.

But, I want to use this experience in a positive way and share my feelings/thoughts about the infraction system itself and why I think it doesn't work. We spoke about it before, but I thought to give it a thread on it's own (if that's okay):

Jura said:
Infraction systems are a good way to kill your forum's membership and to light up extra drama.
Click to expand...
Grover said:
This is exactly my experience. For example: everytime I log into vB4's User Settings over at vbulletin.com, or even worse: my own profile!, the mention of the infraction I got over there months ago, glances at me. It is not making me feel welcome, is it? I know more people feel like this. That's why I never activated the whole thing on my own platform. Again, I have contributed many suggestions to remove it at least from the profile, but it was never picked up.
Click to expand...

This was (and is) precisely what I think is so bad in vBulletin's implementation of it's Infraction System. It's obvious to see that XenForo has a strong social vision and if there ever comes a time that XenForo has some kind of Infraction System implemented, please take this into consideration. It is very simple (IMHO): on a social platform people do not want to be confronted with their past (or current) infractions every single time they go to their own profile.

Support please :).
 
Upvote 28
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For larger forums, an infraction-type system is usually needed. I've found that the one in IP.Board is usually pretty solid and hope that XenForo goes with something similar. Leave it to the administration however to decide if infractions are public or private.
 
Totally agree. It needs to be far more subtle for a user point of view and there shouldn't be a count based on infractions that lead to a bad.
 
In my opinion, an infraction system is absolutely essential.
When you have lots of members and lots of moderators you have to have a way of keeping track of the history of people breaking the rules. Or not quite breaking the rules...
Something we have learned from running a big forum is that it's very, very important to keep it welcoming to new members. You have to keep those new members coming in.
So you have to discourage anti-social behaviour, including that from cliques to 'outsiders'.
In order to maintain a friendly, welcoming forum, you have to keep track when certain members are antisocial even in the mildest of ways.
The infraction system helps you keep track of even the tiniest of transgressions.
So you need to issue infractions which send a polite note to the member requesting in the nicest way that they change their posting style slightly to avoid conflict, or to maintain a welcoming atmosphere or whatever.

At the other end of the scale, sometimes a post is so unacceptable that a public notice of the infraction is needed. We had a modification written which adds a line under the post stating that the above post has earned the author an infraction. A public notice is a way of stating clearly both to the author and to other readers that certain behaviour is not acceptable and will result in an infraction.

Generally though, infractions need to err on the side of politeness because you don't want to alienate useful members because they slip up once in a while.
That's why I don't think the word infraction is particularly helpful. It's too strong.
I would say something like notice would be better. Or caution. Maybe even tip.
Tip, for example, implies that you are helping the member abide by the rules in a constructive way rather than admonishing them in a negative way.

Some xen thinking needs to be put into the system, but we definitely need it, no question.
 
How bout an Infraction System that that end user never sees or experiences?

User Y gets an infraction, but User Y never knows that he got an infraction because infractions are internal documentation of a transgression.
Basically its like keeping a file on a person.
You break the rules, you get an infraction, it goes on your permanent record.
But the only people who even know about your permanent record are moderators.
They can then use that record to review your history of rule breaking and how to best deal with a user such as yourself.
The user though never knows that he even got an infraction, that is never shown to him in any way, thus avoiding any messy issues of butthurt.
Instead the moderator who responds to the infraction (think in much the way we respond to a reported post), could then send the person a message to remind him of the sites code of conduct or whatever.

Also instead of a ban list (which imo is an outdated tool thats usually filled with chinese nike spambots), how bout an Infraction List?
Quick list that shows you all of the people who have received infractions, followed by the number of infractions they have received, the date of the last infraction, etc...
You can then click on the user and see a more detailed account of his infraction history.
The persons "Permanent Record" so to speak.
 
Just have the system force mods to send a PM. The whole point system is a little silly, I think. Have the ability to attach bans as necessary, and everything goes into the permanent record.
 
Ruven said:
How bout an Infraction System that that end user never sees or experiences?
Click to expand...

Sounds like the most logical solution, at the end of the day if things get really bad with a member you are most likely going to have to speak with them. It would seem better that they don't know that mods or other people for that matter have given them an infraction and that the administrator or moderator in charge of dealing with such matters have the opertunity to speak to them rather than 20 different people giving them 20 different infractions that are visible to them and no one bothering to explain why.
 
I am a moderator on a large UK based forum where the site owner is prospectively looking to change to xenForo from VB

I am informed some of the design decisions made in the development of XF is in recognition of the way social media sites are embedded into internet culture in 2010. That is perfectly fine and understandable. It makes good business and personal sense to recognise the importance of such platforms

But nevertheless social media platforms and discussion forums have different emphasis, even if the ultimate mutual aim is to stimulate communication and sharing of information. On social media sites you mostly communicate with people you personally know. It does not necessarily follow when buying from an online trading forum, discussing the latest Petrof piano or the merits of the latest ATI vs Nvidia GPU, one would wish to see or share a personalised avatar and such details found on FB (in part reference XF will produce a blank image if no avatar is selected...)

I can understand how on certain forums an infraction system is not required, desirable or conductive. But the fact remains it is needed in some situations and especially on large professional boards. The choice should therefore be down to site owners to tailor a general template to suit their own site and whether to use an infraction system or not. For example the option to hide/show infractions or even whether a member is aware they have been "marked".
I agree a new member or someone unfamiliar with forum decorum should not feel alienated for a minor indiscretion but at the same time there are situations where you have to forgo niceties (such as if you have a classified trading section)

In short, in the replication of elements of social media sites I hope the XF team do not forget that there are also forums out there on VB which have a responsibility to their members and the pendulum should not swing unduly to another extreme
 
I work on a number of different forums and controlling members delicately always becomes a problem. The ideal "infraction system" would have a sliding scale whereby you could decide whether this is "a quite word in your ear" or a full offense no interaction is needed or tolerated. Working under VB, when I ban a spammer, I always think it is rather silly I have to fill in a message to the user "you are a spammer", and fill in an admin note "spammer", when the infraction is clearly spammed adverts which are going to be deleted ayway.

When working on a small phpBB powered board, we have no infraction system, so the mods PM me and one of us either have a quite word with the offendee or I ban them.

This works well on a small focused site, but on a big site where the Mods are extremely busy, then the infraction system should be tailored to the Moderators not the end users. I can PM people I know well and discuss issues and say please remove that or I will have to take action, but it's not always possible to leisurely PM someone, so a sliding infraction system where there are some standard replies along those lines would be useful.

A shot across the bows button to attach to individual posts only visible to the individual posters would be brilliant. "Moderator Gristle Grinder is monitoring this thread"....


Unfriendly Infractions will always be a requirement :)
 

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