Implemented Infraction System: *please* make it friendly to the enduser

[Grover]

Well,

I've just received an infraction on a vB-related website (my 2nd overall in 9 years, so I am doing good ). It's no point sharing the details (but apparently I made a mistake by friendly inviting people over to XenForo...<-- okeee, *some* details then!), because I don't want to start a discussion that is not constructive.

But, I want to use this experience in a positive way and share my feelings/thoughts about the infraction system itself and why I think it doesn't work. We spoke about it before, but I thought to give it a thread on it's own (if that's okay):

Infraction systems are a good way to kill your forum's membership and to light up extra drama.

This is exactly my experience. For example: everytime I log into vB4's User Settings over at vbulletin.com, or even worse: my own profile!, the mention of the infraction I got over there months ago, glances at me. It is not making me feel welcome, is it? I know more people feel like this. That's why I never activated the whole thing on my own platform. Again, I have contributed many suggestions to remove it at least from the profile, but it was never picked up.

This was (and is) precisely what I think is so bad in vBulletin's implementation of it's Infraction System. It's obvious to see that XenForo has a strong social vision and if there ever comes a time that XenForo has some kind of Infraction System implemented, please take this into consideration. It is very simple (IMHO): on a social platform people do not want to be confronted with their past (or current) infractions every single time they go to their own profile.

Support please .

 

[Marcel]

I agree with Stuart. An infraction system is essential.
If we take the idea of the way the old VB infraction system and usernotes work, what about integrating them both into one system?.
Maybe with some sort of option/selection/toggle to notify the end user or just a backend 'infraction'.
We only use the infraction system in one area of our forums (classifieds). We only dish out a few points per infraction, but it's a zero tolerance policy when clearly published rules are broken.
Even though the rules are there for all to see, the reaction members have when theyre infracted for breaking them is usually quite strong.
We've already changed the wording of "Warning" to reminder to make it more friendly, and will shortly be doing so with the actual points-worthy infractions too.

With regards to Gristle's idea of the shot across the bows ties in with the way we use RTM's now. We have a separate forum specifically for RTM's, which are sometimes used as a 'call' for others.
How about a marker on the thread to show that it's been reported? Like the infraction system.

 

[Mutt]

I'd like an infraction system of sorts. more of a staff notes system. make it so only the staff can read the notes. make it so you can optionally give permission to trusted nonstaff to place infraction notes but don't let them read em. it would give staff a way to keep track of member. we ban, unban, send users to time-out, etc and after awhile it gets tough to keep track of who did what especially because there's always lots of offsite / email drama which the alert system doesn't track. this would make it harder to miss things. sometimes I'll unban someone only to have one the mods remind me of some horrible thing they did that got them banned in the first place.

 

[jondoe0069]

I absolutely hate infractions and wouldn't implement such a system on my site.
It's like being made to stand in the corner for being naughty at school.

I stopped posting on a forum after 6,000 posts due to an infraction I received from a moderator who was well known for handing them out when people disagreed with him.

It's the best way I know of driving members away.

I agree with this 100%. I received a "Politeness Infraction" once for calling out a spammer on a forum. That infraction ruined my entire experience on the forum just due to the frustration of being treated like a little kid and the fact that I couldn't take the forum seriously any more. I had been there for years and now don't actively participate except to use the buy/sell/trade section.

 

[Dean]

I'd like an infraction system of sorts. more of a staff notes system. make it so only the staff can read the notes. make it so you can optionally give permission to trusted nonstaff to place infraction notes but don't let them read em. it would give staff a way to keep track of member. we ban, unban, send users to time-out, etc and after awhile it gets tough to keep track of who did what especially because there's always lots of offsite / email drama which the alert system doesn't track. this would make it harder to miss things. sometimes I'll unban someone only to have one the mods remind me of some horrible thing they did that got them banned in the first place.

Well, yes. Keeping track of who did what, when, in detail - would be the minimum desirable. At the very least some more features for Reported Posts.

 

[silendreamer]

A lot of people in this thread have been complaining about how they received an infraction in a forum they visit everyday etc .. If the mods/admins of that forum gave an infraction to a contributing member ..I would only blame that mod/admin.

Not all of us who are asking for infraction system would do such a thing to our members .. would we?

The reason we need an infraction system is because there will always be some rogue members or newbies who constantly post in wrong forums or spam the forums in spite of sending polite PMs or friendly warnings. For such members, an infraction would serve perfectly.

For eg: on my VB forum I have it set up like "Spam Post = 5 points", "Posting in Wrong Forums = 2 points" etc ... when the user reaches 10 points he is automatically banned for 2 days ... if he reaches 15 points he is banned for a month and so on

If you have a forum with 1000 members and 1 or 2 members registering every day, it is very easy to moderate. But imagine in the big-boards where there are 100K + members and more than 100-200 people registering everyday and posting more than 40-50 spam messages or messages in wrong forums?

So please think about implementing it in the nearest future as soon as possible.

 

[D.O.A.]

Been using this for a while - it's great.

http://xenforo.com/community/threads/xfb5-xfr-infractions-v-1-0-2-en_ru.9601/

 

[Paul B]

on my VB forum I have it set up like..."Posting in Wrong Forums = 2 points" etc ... when the user reaches 10 points he is automatically banned for 2 days ...

If we employed that same system here, there would be a few people taking short holidays from the forum, including ironically, some admins who employ similar systems on their own sites.

 

[silendreamer]

If we employed that same system here, there would be a few people taking short holidays from the forum, including ironically, some admins who employ similar systems on their own sites.

Once you get a 2 point infraction, there is very less chances that they would repeat it again right away ... and well infractions do expire after a specified time (say 1 month).. so they will never reach the 10 point ban limit .. so I disagree with your reply.

 

[onyxchase]

I remember visiting digitalpoint a while back and they kept banning me for stupid reasons like posting in the wrong forum or something like that. Horrible experience.

 

[Decent60]

I like the Warning and Infraction Systems. Its a system to not only help make sure that members are posting correctly, but that our moderators are also familiar with the rules and are doing their jobs effectively.
While its mainly used on rogue members, occasionally some of our moderators do sip up and decide to make their own rules up.

 

[hescominsoon]

I personally like the discouraged users better.

 

[AzzidReign]

If we employed that same system here, there would be a few people taking short holidays from the forum, including ironically, some admins who employ similar systems on their own sites.

But here is different. The site I run is nearing 300k users with 10,000+ logins a day. Not to mention the thousands of posts a day...it's very hard to keep track of who's constantly flaming and breaking other rules without such a system.

What I propose is you not show the user that they received an infraction, just send the PM to them. Allow us to layout various "rules" in the infraction system like vB does BUT also give us admins the ability to attach a default PM to send to the user. Say something like:

SUBJECT: Rule Broken: Flaming another member​

MESSAGE: Your post has broken our rule regarding flaming, name calling, trolling, etc. Please refrain from doing this again. If there were multiple parties involved in this, each person has also been notified. Thank you for your understanding.​

Or something along those lines (sounds stupid and corny...thought it up on the fly, gimme a break lol). That way moderators won't be troubled in sending PM's with custom messages (unless they want to and perms are given to them for it). I'd especially think this would be good because some of my moderators are lazy and don't even type up a PM for my members when giving out warnings. Shiii...who am I kidding, I'm lazy too lol I just say "SUBJECT: Flaming; MESSAGE: Flaming" lol

This type of system gives big boards the ability to keep track of the trouble makers. So the only way users should see they broke the rules is through PM. Do not show them the infraction in the user cp because that's just a daily reminder of what they did and no one wants to look at that.

Brogan, would you have left if you only received a PM about breaking a rule and the post being removed? Or would that still have been too much insult? (not trying to sound facetious, serious question)

 

[dutchbb]

I personally like the discouraged users better.

This has been debated before, they are two completely different things. Discouraging is for users you want to get rid of. Infractions are for users for which you want to change their behavior.

 

[Paul B]

Brogan, would you have left if you only received a PM about breaking a rule and the post being removed? Or would that still have been too much insult? (not trying to sound facetious, serious question)

Possibly.
If a moderator can go around handing out infractions like candy because members disagree with him, and is then backed up by the admin, then there are major issues with that forum anyway so probably not.

He was known as a major fan-boy for the subject being discussed, never a good trait for a moderator to have.

 

[hescominsoon]

a forum i used to admin the replacement for me loved to infract former admins/mods into bannation. I use the discouragement as a behavior modification tool. One of the things that happens is they get sent to a web page that explains why the forums seems broken. Only folks in discouragement get there. If they choose to leave because of discouragement then they weren't interested in changing their behavior so an "infraction" isn't going to matter anyway, I think the discouragement is a great replacement for infractions..

 

[Dark_Hunter]

I absolutely hate infractions and wouldn't implement such a system on my site.
It's like being made to stand in the corner for being naughty at school.

I stopped posting on a forum after 6,000 posts due to an infraction I received from a moderator who was well known for handing them out when people disagreed with him.

It's the best way I know of driving members away.

If you don't like infractions, then you don't like jail, or communality service. Rules are made for a reason and if you break you expect to get propz?

 

[Paul B]

Not all those who are tasked with upholding the rules have the maturity or ability to do so.
Try reading my posts again and you'll see what I mean - the problem was the moderator, not me.

P.S. I have no idea what "propz" means.

 

[Mark.B]

I absolutely hate infractions and wouldn't implement such a system on my site.
It's like being made to stand in the corner for being naughty at school.

I stopped posting on a forum after 6,000 posts due to an infraction I received from a moderator who was well known for handing them out when people disagreed with him.

It's the best way I know of driving members away.

I could not agree more.

 

[MGSteve]

I remember visiting digitalpoint a while back and they kept banning me for stupid reasons like posting in the wrong forum or something like that. Horrible experience.

Prime example of the bad use of an infraction system....

 

[Dark_Hunter]

Not all those who are tasked with upholding the rules have the maturity or ability to do so.
Try reading my posts again and you'll see what I mean - the problem was the moderator, not me.

P.S. I have no idea what "propz" means.

You just reminded me of Big Brother, they would give out stupid punishments for not wearing there Micophone.