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XF 1.0 HTML 5 Microdata in Breadcrumb

Rudy

Well-known member
#41
Yes to both, as it is a linear indicator (or "roadmap", if you will) of what page you are on. That's pretty much the expected function of a breadcrumb.

My product catalog does the same thing--it echoes exactly what page you are on, even when the description on the page and the "friendly" URL provide the same information:

Catalog Home >> Women's Clothing >> Fit-U-Rite Jeans >> Loose Fit Shorts

By nature, that's how it is supposed to work, and I would expect a breadcrumb to show me exactly where I'm at with a single glance, regardless of what the rest of the page might say. It may seem redundant, but some of us find it more helpful than others do. And I've seen my share of poorly designed sites that somehow manage to use a breadcrumb, making the site somewhat navigable. I'll take redundancy over a visitor getting lost. :D

I feel it's a matter of preference. If an admin doesn't like the breadcrumb, delete it from the templates. Or don't design it into the finished site if building a site from the ground up.
 

Digital Doctor

Well-known member
#42
Catalog Home >> Women's Clothing >> Fit-U-Rite Jeans >> Loose Fit Shorts <---- This breadcrumb has value.
Most do not.
Forums and catalogs are hierarchical, thus a breadcrumb can be helpful to move up to a higher level when desired.
 
#43
Catalog Home >> Women's Clothing >> Fit-U-Rite Jeans >> Loose Fit Shorts <---- This breadcrumb has value.
Most do not.
Forums are catalogs are hierarchical, thus a breadcrumb can be helpful to move up to a higher level when desired.
This is true, while I understand why some wouldn't like it on, say, the Member's page, I would personally feel it as strange if it's present on some pages and not on others. That inconsistency would make me question the site design.
 

Digital Doctor

Well-known member
#46
By most people do you mean the 12 who voted yes?
yes. of the people who took the time to vote, the majority felt that breadcrumbs were of no use on non-forum pages.

I use the breadcrumbs all the time for quickly moving up one or more levels.
Basically that is forums only use.
or some other hierarchy.

You then never use it on Members or Help
And you don't have it on your home page,
 

Digital Doctor

Well-known member
#47
This is true, while I understand why some wouldn't like it on, say, the Member's page, I would personally feel it as strange if it's present on some pages and not on others. That inconsistency would make me question the site design.
I think site design is changing ... people want a clean look.
Xenforo has a clean look vs. vBulletin.
Part of having a clean look is to get rid of stuff that isn't needed.
If you want an even cleaner look, you get rid of stuff that isn't used as often.

Breadcrumbs have no function on Home Pages.
They rarely have any use on non-forum, or non-hierarchical pages.

Most non-forum software does not use breadcrumbs.

Wordpress ? NO
Joomla ? NO
vB CMS Articles: YES

Breadcrumbs have some use for things that follow a strict hierarchy.
Home Pages don't have rigid hierarchies, and thus don't need a breadcrumb.
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
#49
I think site design is changing ... people want a clean look.
Xenforo has a clean look vs. vBulletin.
Part of having a clean look is to get rid of stuff that isn't needed.
If you want an even cleaner look, you get rid of stuff that isn't used as often.

Breadcrumbs have no function on Home Pages.
They rarely have any use on non-forum, or non-hierarchical pages.

Most non-forum software does not use breadcrumbs.

Wordpress ? NO
Joomla ? NO
vB CMS Articles: YES

Breadcrumbs have some use for things that follow a strict hierarchy.
Home Pages don't have rigid hierarchies, and thus don't need a breadcrumb.
Show some credentials that you're a usability expert or something, and your vendetta against breadcrumbs might be taken seriously.
 
#51
In the battle of clean look vs consistency, consistency wins.
I wholeheartedly agree. Most users will notice inconsistency than something that may not look "as clean", especially since most users are just that, users. They wouldn't even think that it would look cleaner without it, but if it wasn't there and they went looking for it, it would seem strange, no?
 

Digital Doctor

Well-known member
#52
Show some credentials that you're a usability expert or something, and your vendetta against breadcrumbs might be taken seriously.
You don't have to rely upon my opinion.
There is a poll on this topic.

Space at the top of a web page is at a premium. Every inch counts.
Forinstance, banner ads at the top of the page make people money.
I'd rather give space up to important things like banner ads vs. breadcrumbs.

Many people have voted they don't feel the breadcrumb is helpful on non-forum pages.
No one has described a use of the breadcrumb on non-forum pages.

I think giving people the option of having the breadcrumb in many areas is fine.
But I feel that the breadcrumb should be OPTIONAL.

I don't want it on a Home Page, Nor a wiki page (unless it has a large hierarchy), nor many other non-forum pages.

I would like it on a nested cataglog, a nested forum, and a nested gallery.

Ideally the breadcrumb could have different formatting: ie. be made smaller ?
I'll look into some breadcrumbs that take up less screen real estate.
Anyone got a skin with a different breadcrumb ?

There are things about xenforo and vBulletin that make space at the top more of a premium such as the subnavbar. vBulletin has one. Xenforo has one. Many other forums (almost all) do not. Does anyone know another forum software with s
IPB - no.
phpBB3 - no
SMF - no
mybb - no
etc.

MyBB has some very nice non-forum pages.
http://community.mybb.com/
Check out the ideas tab, get involved, etc.
Nice looking pages.
Xenforo would be smart to take notes.
MyBB's home page sure looks better than vBulletin's CMS Home Page.
MyBB has a breadcrumb on forum pages only.
No subnavbar, no breadcrumb. Just a nice Tab and a nice Title.
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
#53
You don't have to rely upon my opinion.
There is a poll on this topic.

Space at the top of a web page is at a premium. Every inch counts.
Forinstance, banner ads at the top of the page make people money.
I'd rather give space up to important things like banner ads vs. breadcrumbs.

Many people have voted they don't feel the breadcrumb is helpful on non-forum pages.
No one has described a use of the breadcrumb on non-forum pages.

I think giving people the option of having the breadcrumb in many areas is fine.
But I feel that the breadcrumb should be OPTIONAL.

I don't want it on a Home Page, Nor a wiki page (unless it has a large hierarchy), nor many other non-forum pages.

I would like it on a nested cataglog, a nested forum, and a nested gallery.

Ideally the breadcrumb could have different formatting: ie. be made smaller ?
I'll look into some breadcrumbs that take up less screen real estate.
Anyone got a skin with a different breadcrumb ?

There are things about xenforo and vBulletin that make space at the top more of a premium such as the subnavbar. vBulletin has one. Xenforo has one. Many other forums (almost all) do not. Does anyone know another forum software with s
IPB - no.
phpBB3 - no
SMF - no
mybb - no
etc.

MyBB has some very nice non-forum pages.
http://community.mybb.com/
Check out the ideas tab, get involved, etc.
Nice looking pages.
Xenforo would be smart to take notes.
MyBB's home page sure looks better than vBulletin's CMS Home Page.
MyBB has a breadcrumb on forum pages only.
No subnavbar, no breadcrumb. Just a nice Tab and a nice Title.
Feel free to remove it from your own board, but hearing you blather on about it when Kier has stated its left there for consistency (And people -do- use it, just not you) is tiring.

Making a point once is fine, making it twice or three times is alright as well. But bringing up the same thing over and over is redundant and annoying, and likely does more harm to your argument than supports it.
 

Ryan Kent

Well-known member
#54
Feel free to remove it from your own board, but hearing you blather on about it when Kier has stated its left there for consistency (And people -do- use it, just not you) is tiring.

Making a point once is fine, making it twice or three times is alright as well. But bringing up the same thing over and over is redundant and annoying, and likely does more harm to your argument than supports it.
The entire point of a forums is for open discussions. Why bash a guy who is actively sharing his point of view?

Yes, he is making the same general point, but the specifics keep changing in response to others who share their opinions.

He is having an active discussion and you are directly insulting him with terms like "blather" and calling him "annoying". If you don't care for his opinion you are more then welcome to ignore it or stop reading the thread.
 

Digital Doctor

Well-known member
#55
I really disagree I think even on non forum pages it has value, example:

http://www.shadowedsoul.net/loot-database/player-detail/?playerName=Bunny

This at a glance let's us go to any level of the pages being displayed. If I want to jump back home I can, if I want another report I can just click on Loot Database. It's clean and gives another way to navigate.
Right you are .... This has solid value.
Very good example.



As mentioned in a few posts ..... pages or data that have HIERARCHY can make use of a breadcrumb.
The more nested the information, the more the breadcrumb makes sense.

Pages like this Loot Database benefit from the breadcrumb.

What function is your Wordpress Home Page getting from the breadcrumb ?
The breadcrumb actually breaks your HomePage.
  • http://www.shadowedsoul.net/ - landing page is Wordpress (looks awesome BTW)(puts xenforo.com to shame).
  • Click Potions > Cho'gall
  • In the breadcrumb: Home > Front Page >News > Potions Chogall ........... click News.
  • Result: blank page.

General Principles:
The breadcrumb is for heavily nested information.
Home Pages, Members, Help, and many other Pages do not have nesting, and don't benefit from a breadcrumb.
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
#56
The entire point of a forums is for open discussions. Why bash a guy who is actively sharing his point of view?

Yes, he is making the same general point, but the specifics keep changing in response to others who share their opinions.

He is having an active discussion and you are directly insulting him with terms like "blather" and calling him "annoying". If you don't care for his opinion you are more then welcome to ignore it or stop reading the thread.
The specifics never changed, and the point has always been the same. He doesn't want it on pages like the account page, but it is kept there for consistency. Kier has stated it, others have stated it, and only 12 people voted in his poll regarding the removal of it.

Just guessing, but he's made somewhere around ~30 or so posts regarding the same thing which -is- annoying. If you have to make a point that many times to get people to pay attention to it or respond it probably isn't something most people care about or see that a change is required to it.

While I was rude, its more that he does things like this repeatedly on different topics (Demanding that developers charge for free modifications which has annoyed every developer who I talk to to no end) and has become quite difficult to read many threads without seeing posts like this by him.

Open discussions are exactly what forums are made for, but beating a dead horse serves no use, no point, and will just make people tired of the discussions at hand.
 

Ryan Kent

Well-known member
#57
It's the way the world works.

He has an idea about a change which he feels would be an improvement. He brings it up in the forums. The company reviews it, shares their opinion, and disagrees. All well and good.

He can drop it, or if he is passionate about his opinion, he can pursue it further. Making a poll (which 24 people so far have voted in), seeking the opinions of others, discussing details, etc. is how he can help others think about the topic more. If he is successful about swaying the opinions of others, then perhaps the company can reconsider their approach. It happens all the time.

My suggestion would either be an ACP option "show breadcrumb" or an easier way to add/remove the breadcrumb without having to adjust template code. For me personally, I learned the conditionals so I could have it show up on the pages I desire. But I still watch this thread with interest.

Any time someone gets so upset sitting in their chair reading a discussion that they make posts such as the one you shared, it kills the board. The current discussion dies because many don't want to get involved with the drama. Other discussions can be impacted too because now people have to start thinking "well if I make a post then this guy might insult me".

In summary, you or I may disagree with his point, or wish him to post less, but he has every right to post as much as he desires. We should be glad he is hear taking the time to share his view, and that he feels so strongly about it he is willing to make a stand.
 

Digital Doctor

Well-known member
#58
Just because Kier says 6 words over 3 letters doesnt mean a topic is finished. Especially when a specific question was asked.

I find that the breadcrumb is fundamental to the way that I navigate sites, including forums.
Q: Can you give tangible examples ?

I think this discussion has brought up something very important ... breadcrumbs are good for navigating nested information. Nested forums, nested data, nested pictures. I don't see the breadcrumb doing anything fundamental in the Help or Members tab.
Past that ... Kier ... nor anyone else has ... given any functional reason for breadcrumbs other than the simple "Go up one in the hierarchy".

Earlier in this thread .......

The best forum software ever just got better ?
/not surprised.
Breadcrumb benefits and pitfalls will continue in this thread.
 

bambua

Well-known member
#59
The news being broken is actually a problem in my permalinks :p thanks for pointing that out.

Right you are .... This has solid value.
Very good example.



As mentioned in a few posts ..... pages or data that have HIERARCHY can make use of a breadcrumb.
The more nested the information, the more the breadcrumb makes sense.

Pages like this Loot Database benefit from the breadcrumb.

What function is your Wordpress Home Page getting from the breadcrumb ?
The breadcrumb actually breaks your HomePage.
  • http://www.shadowedsoul.net/ - landing page is Wordpress (looks awesome BTW)(puts xenforo.com to shame).
  • Click Potions > Cho'gall
  • In the breadcrumb: Home > Front Page >News > Potions Chogall ........... click News.
  • Result: blank page.
General Principles:
The breadcrumb is for heavily nested information.
Home Pages, Members, Help, and many other Pages do not have nesting, and don't benefit from a breadcrumb.