How many xen domains have you registered?

[PixelFX]

In anticipation for xenForo to come out, how many or what domains have you guys registered. To build future xen plugins/mods/other and or even fan sites?

 

[Anthony Parsons]

The tidbit that could be applied to all of this right now after a discussion with a lawyer on this topic yesterday (had other business with them, but raised this point for self interest (they are a licensing, intellectual property and trademark specific lawyer)), is that the license could certainly include the non-use of xenforo software upon a domain that infringes their trademark regardless whether the TM is registered or not, locally or globally. Unless you have some funds and a lawyer on hand, even without official registration or use of xenforo software itself, a DMCA to your host can certainly put you on the back foot quickly as you will require to prove otherwise sufficiently, or remove the domain in use, so a DMCA can take your $10 domain and turn it into a $1 - $2 thousand domain via legal fee's in order to submit the legalities to the host to counter or squash the DMCA.

I would opt on the side Floris mentioned earlier, being that you should respect trademark rights when they are in place and simply seek permission for their use. Unless your doing something shifty, it is more than likely permission is granted because it is a method to advertise their brand without doing any work. Just read how people found this site in the first place (variety of websites), and when you go shopping for a forum product new to the web, the more your name is used in the right manner, the better chance you have of being found and selected by the newcomer. Its all free $$$ at the end of the day.

Quite honestly, if I was Kier or Mike, I would have an application process already live for third party site owners requesting specific details from them on the plans for use, and give written approval for its use under those specific guidelines so the brand is being built prior to the product even being launched. That is brand protection + marketing all approved and controlled... win win!

 

[Jethro]

Don't forget our resident XenMod, Peggy! She did quite a few good styles for vB when she was running Themes By Design.

Cool we are already getting quite the graphics community Sorry Peggy was unaware that you also do themes.

 

[Peggy]

Cool we are already getting quite the graphics community Sorry Peggy was unaware that you also do themes.

That's ok hun, I was never real vocal about it.

 

[RickM]

And yet you flagrantly disregard the statement we have given that XenForo is our trademark, the use of which we are compelled to protect?

Wow....just...wow.

Firstly, look at the reg date - I picked them up long before your post about that. Just like a bunch of others (who dont seem to be getting any stick from you) did.

In fairness Kier, if I thought you were actually going to use them, I wouldn't have registered them. I've got massive respect for the work you guys do, but you cant seriously tell me that having fansites (which by the way will explicitly state that they are in no way official) is a bad thing.

If thats the way you feel about it then fine forget it. They can expire next year. Really never expected to see THAT side of you.

Finally, I want to point this out, big, loud and proud: I was NOT going to be using ANY form of XF fansite to make money. I'm assuming you saw the 'hosting' one and assumed I was going to open up some kind of unofficial XF host. This is NOT the case. I was going to use it as a site recommending/reviewing hosts for XF (and no, not an affiliate site).

 

[Cezz]

No offense, but I think everyone is wasting money. That is unless they plan to make a customized mod and even then your taking a huge risk at it.

I'd rather see the community here have a mods section instead of a new xenforo.net org etc... Keep it all in one area instead of making various sites and what not.

I love having everything in one area, than having to go to one site for a design another for a mod etc.. etc..

What does a domain cost??? I don't think a few $$ or ££ really matters, hosting most of us already have and it is easy to stick a free platform like wordpress or modx cms on there so the only cost is the domain name, and I peronally don't think it is that much of a loss.

Make a comercial mod that only costs £0.80 and only have to make 5-10 sales a year to cover domain costs. Now if that mod or skin is actually £8 then 5-10 a year will also buy you a few beers...

 

[Floris]

Wow....just...wow.

Firstly, look at the reg date - I picked them up long before your post about that. Just like a bunch of others (who dont seem to be getting any stick from you) did.

In fairness Kier, if I thought you were actually going to use them, I wouldn't have registered them. I've got massive respect for the work you guys do, but you cant seriously tell me that having fansites (which by the way will explicitly state that they are in no way official) is a bad thing.

If thats the way you feel about it then fine forget it. They can expire next year. Really never expected to see THAT side of you.

Finally, I want to point this out, big, loud and proud: I was NOT going to be using ANY form of XF fansite to make money. I'm assuming you saw the 'hosting' one and assumed I was going to open up some kind of unofficial XF host. This is NOT the case. I was going to use it as a site recommending/reviewing hosts for XF (and no, not an affiliate site).

Creation date: 29 Jul 2010 09:31:00

Yep, that's after the site here went open and the domain + company name was open, and that's after it was known it's a trademark.

http://xenfans.com/blog/xenforos-name-known/

The June 20th article I published had a (tm) on the image already, claiming trademark on it.

 

[Disjunto]

Creation date: 29 Jul 2010 09:31:00

Yep, that's after the site here went open and the domain + company name was open, and that's after it was known it's a trademark.

http://xenfans.com/blog/xenforos-name-known/

The June 20th article I published had a (tm) on the image already, claiming trademark on it.

It's not like all that many people knew about the name before the site was opened

Not sure when Kier's original "XenForo is trademarked, and we will murder anyone who uses it"* post was posted though

*Not actual wording

 

[wizzard]

you could register xenflu.com like the flu, xenforo could end up everywhere.

 

[RickM]

Creation date: 29 Jul 2010 09:31:00

Yep, that's after the site here went open and the domain + company name was open, and that's after it was known it's a trademark.

http://xenfans.com/blog/xenforos-name-known/

The June 20th article I published had a (tm) on the image already, claiming trademark on it.

I said before he posted (i.e made a public forum post saying they didn't want people using the name). Please don't turn this into a place to promote your fan site.

 

[Floris]

It's not like all that many people knew about the name before the site was opened

Not sure when Kier's original "XenForo is trademarked, and we will murder anyone who uses it"* post was posted though

*Not actual wording

Just because they posted it tomorrow, today, yesterday, doesn't mean it wasn't trademarked before ..

 

[Floris]

I said before he posted (i.e made a public forum post saying they didn't want people using the name). Please don't turn this into a place to promote your fan site.

What does my fan site have to do with your domains, don't be like that and turn this on me.

Where XenForo limited posts publicly they will protect their trademark has nothing to do with having a trademark or not.

 

[RickM]

What does my fan site have to do with your domains, don't be like that and turn this on me.

Where XenForo limited posts publicly they will protect their trademark has nothing to do with having a trademark or not.

Sorry Floris - didnt mean it like that.

All I'm trying to say, is why is it such a big problem? Sure, if people were claimin g they are an official place for XenForo then I could understand. Or if the XenForo brand was being used to make a profit, I could understand. But its not.

Its a bunch of people who care about the product enough to want to open up a website to promote it for free. You know exactly what I mean. XenFans.com exists because you want to support the project. Which is why I planned on opening a few sites to provide info on XF.

Obviously thats no longer going to happen given the opposition received. I wont waste my time. Its not like I've spent the last year sitting updating my twitter feed every 5 minutes, waiting and waiting to see what Kier posts about his secret project.

 

[Floris]

There is not a thing such as a problem, more that you're being pointed out you are potentially infringing on a trademark.

 

[jonsidneyb]

0

 

[chousho]

Please do not blame Kier for this. He is actually doing the right thing in making sure a future product being put out will be able to maintain its trademark status. It would be pretty sucky to have trademark disputes possible before the product even launched. Please take a look at: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/metaschool/fisher/domain/tm.htm#7
As well, under #8:

In addition to bringing an action for infringement, owners of trademarks can also bring an action for trademark dilution under either federal or state law.

As you can see, making a case for XF Ltd. to own the XF trademark would be hard if many sites came out at the same time using the same "XenForo" name. Perhaps after it became well established, so as there would definitely be no confusion; however until that time when it would be popular enough to stand on its own merits in that those in this Web/Social admin field would automatically associate XenForo with Kier and Mike's work here, it is safer to let them use the full name alone.

 

[Floris]

Yes, but I have specifically not went with xenforofans.com and went with xenfans.com to avoid any domain/trademark issue. We want to just be a fan site, but we have the opportunity now to also become commercial, and we're not infringing on anything.

If a none commercial fan site by an individual isn't a trademark problem, then XFLimited has nothing to contact you about. I just don't know enough about that. I have seen digg.com take down fan sites because they had adsense banner on their fan site.

 

[RickM]

Please do not blame Kier for this. He is actually doing the right thing in making sure a future product being put out will be able to maintain its trademark status. It would be pretty sucky to have trademark disputes possible before the product even launched. Please take a look at: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/metaschool/fisher/domain/tm.htm#7
As well, under #8:

As you can see, making a case for XF Ltd. to own the XF trademark would be hard if many sites came out at the same time using the same "XenForo" name. Perhaps after it became well established, so as there would definitely be no confusion; however until that time when it would be popular enough to stand on its own merits in that those in this Web/Social admin field would automatically associate XenForo with Kier and Mike's work here, it is safer to let them use the full name alone.

XenForo is a UK based company. You want this: http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/tm/t-other/t-infringe.htm

Since XenForo was not in the UK database (which if its a legally registered trade mark, it should be) I was under the assumption that there would not be a problem using it for a NON-PROFIT fansite.

 

[chousho]

XenForo is a UK based company. You want this: http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/tm/t-other/t-infringe.htm

Since XenForo was not in the UK database (which if its a legally registered trade mark, it should be) I was under the assumption that there would not be a problem using it for a NON-PROFIT fansite.

The US and UK law works in about the same way, with some slight difference of stances. However, from the link you gave, it still means the same thing:

...Some unregistered trade marks may be protected under Common Law and this is known as Passing off. However, whether or not they are protected will depend on the particular circumstances, in particular:

• Whether, and to what extent, the owner of the unregistered trade mark was trading under the name at the date of commencement of the use of the later mark;
• Whether the two marks are sufficiently similar, having regard to their fields of trade, so as to be likely to confuse and deceive (whether or not intentionally) a substantial number of persons into thinking that the junior user’s goods and services are those of the senior user...

If you could not find XF in the UK DB (wow, enough abbreviating!) that there would definitely _be_ an issue with using their name. So let's say they do not have a registered trademark. What does the above say about unregistered trademarks being protected?
It applies if the company has been trading under that name, and for an extended amount of time.
XF Ltd. has not been trading under that name at all, yet. Therefore they are waiting until they can establish some clout in the established field, where the name will be well known (popular) to the extent that it is automatically known who owns it. If a plethora of sites all come out using Xenforo in their name, in this same field of forum software, how is the actual Xenforo Ltd. going to establish they actually own the trademark? This is why it's better for them to establish that they have to protect their trademark at the beginning, so as not to let the well be poisoned.

 

[bookmark]

I think RickM would help to promote Xen with these Xen domains and he doesen't intend to make money with them.
Domain protection would be a difficult problems we can't resolved in this thread.

 

[chousho]

I think RickM would help to promote Xen with these Xen domains and he doesen't intend to make money with them.
Domain protection would be a difficult problems we can't resolved in this thread.

It's not so much what he would do with the name, it's that allowing someone to use their trademark before they are well established opens them up to some possible troubles down the road.

If somebody who actually is infringing on their trademark comes along later, they would be able to go the route that perhaps Kier and Mike actually aren't the real trademark owners, citing how many sites using the trademark came out around the same time period. From here it would be a waste of money for XF Ltd. as they would have to go through more trouble in proving actual ownership and rights to the name than if they had just enforced it in the beginning; letting it become established as their own in the first place.