How many xen domains have you registered?
- Thread starter PixelFX
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mlx
Well-known member
Oh well ... isn't Xen trademarked as well? You know ... Xen® hypervisor ...
Anthony Parsons
Well-known member
Trademark (TM) also only applies if the name is applied to something within the field it is being trademarked, and MUST be registered as a trademark in each country the company want to represent. Registered is also different from TM. At present I couldn't retrieve a search from the UK, US or AU trademark database, so it could also be pending or being used as an unregistered trademark, which then limits its use locally, as any trademark must be registered in each country it is to be applied.
The database update could be pending, or it could merely be unregistered (though displayed)... though right now I could use xenforo in anything I wanted being in Australia, as it has no legal merit as its not registered here, as the company Xenforo Ltd is located in the UK. Only UK residents would have an immediate legal issue with using it to my knowledge. I could register Xenforo Pty Ltd here in Australia as a company and go head to head with xenforo online under xenforo.com.au, which you must be an Australian business to purchase, otherwise they get stripped away from you here.
If you look at vbulletin, it is registered as a trademark within most major countries who are part of the Madrid Protocol, and used that process to register vbulletin across the most diverse of populations, hence how they began sending out trademark violations to anyone without permission to use vbulletin in any type of website that represented towards vbulletin the software, or software in general, whether support, faq, mods, styles, etc... all covered under the terms of that trademark if you look it up.
The database update could be pending, or it could merely be unregistered (though displayed)... though right now I could use xenforo in anything I wanted being in Australia, as it has no legal merit as its not registered here, as the company Xenforo Ltd is located in the UK. Only UK residents would have an immediate legal issue with using it to my knowledge. I could register Xenforo Pty Ltd here in Australia as a company and go head to head with xenforo online under xenforo.com.au, which you must be an Australian business to purchase, otherwise they get stripped away from you here.
- ™ (for an unregistered trade mark, that is, a mark used to promote or brand goods)
- ℠ (for an unregistered service mark, that is, a mark used to promote or brand services)
- ® (for a registered trademark)
If you look at vbulletin, it is registered as a trademark within most major countries who are part of the Madrid Protocol, and used that process to register vbulletin across the most diverse of populations, hence how they began sending out trademark violations to anyone without permission to use vbulletin in any type of website that represented towards vbulletin the software, or software in general, whether support, faq, mods, styles, etc... all covered under the terms of that trademark if you look it up.
Anthony Parsons
Well-known member
That is more to the point. As above, I could use my domain generationxenforo.com as a site for xenforo, however; as xenforo grows and submits via the Madrid Protocol and includes Australia, then all the work I would have put into the site could be stripped away in one fowl swoop due to official registration, if not already and merely awaiting a global database update.
Better off to just get permission in the first place, then atleast you have legal grounds to fall back on for loss of earnings or such if they changed their mind down the track. Basically... don't do the wrong thing now equates to not being hammered later down the road.
F
Floris
Guest
If they filed for trademark after you registered it, it's grandfathered in. Especially if you have a non-commercial fan site, there is no reason for their lawyer to contact you about it. So, ask them if they filed for it, if so, when, and inform them that you're not making a commercial site. It shouldn't be a problem then.
I have no issue with anybody btw, but I find it "rude" that international sites pop up like (randomly made up and picked) xenforo.es or xenforo.fr and they will claim "we are official xenforo support, etc, for xenforo" .. making themselves look official, putting themselves on the map so to speak, and probably commercially gaining from it via offering competitive services such as installation or import.
If I had a company I would first of all try to register those to cover my butt prior to opening my company. But secondly make sure I have a trademark prior to going public and then enforcing it where possible - inviting those people either to register as a business and become a subsidiary and work together, or inviting them to get an alternative domain and become a fan site doing unofficial support.
I find it rude, because they're benefitting from the branding of a company, without making their own reputation, awareness. It's not within the spirit of "being a fan".
I have no issue with anybody btw, but I find it "rude" that international sites pop up like (randomly made up and picked) xenforo.es or xenforo.fr and they will claim "we are official xenforo support, etc, for xenforo" .. making themselves look official, putting themselves on the map so to speak, and probably commercially gaining from it via offering competitive services such as installation or import.
If I had a company I would first of all try to register those to cover my butt prior to opening my company. But secondly make sure I have a trademark prior to going public and then enforcing it where possible - inviting those people either to register as a business and become a subsidiary and work together, or inviting them to get an alternative domain and become a fan site doing unofficial support.
I find it rude, because they're benefitting from the branding of a company, without making their own reputation, awareness. It's not within the spirit of "being a fan".
Anthony Parsons
Well-known member
I thought generationxenforo would be a great parody site if it smacks IPB and IB senseless as the competition... it could mask the generation shift whilst whipping the crap out them both... 
Just kidding... but the thought did cross my mind.
Just kidding... but the thought did cross my mind.
KURTZ
Well-known member
i don't understand one thing: OK xenforo is a trademark so (obviously) we can't use anything related with ... but i don't understand what is the issue with the xenforo domains ... i guess this: if Kier & C. really want to protect their name, they must register all the xenforo domains worldwide ...
keep in mind one important thing: if you use a xenforo domain it would be correct if you put 'unofficial site' somewhere ...
keep in mind one important thing: if you use a xenforo domain it would be correct if you put 'unofficial site' somewhere ...
F
Floris
Guest
It's unrealistic and costly to go through 100+ .cTLD, plus not all countries allow you to register one without having a business or residence there.
I think it's a nice to ask first, go for it, and play within the copyright/trademark rules, and know that you have a gentleman's agreement with the company.
People shouldn't go (in my opinion) register say xenforo.org, and then use it commercially, and go "oh look, we got that", and be surprised if the company contacts you to protect their trademark. Which btw, they risk losing if they don't enforce it.
I think it's a nice to ask first, go for it, and play within the copyright/trademark rules, and know that you have a gentleman's agreement with the company.
People shouldn't go (in my opinion) register say xenforo.org, and then use it commercially, and go "oh look, we got that", and be surprised if the company contacts you to protect their trademark. Which btw, they risk losing if they don't enforce it.
Anthony Parsons
Well-known member
No, they don't need to register all domains with xenforo, as that would be impossible and it would be cheaper to register your name globally.
Mike or Kier could certainly state whether they have lodged the documents or not, but basically even though you put TM onto a domain name, it means nothing outside your physical location, ie. they are a UK company, so they could challenge trademark of xenforo against any new UK based company, but not International. Also, trademark only applies to the industry, ie. software, which when trademarking can come with support, faq, modifications, styles... you can add relevant sectors which will encompass many other things. That doesn't stop you starting up your own xenforo sprinkler company and then trademarking xenforo for use on sprinklers. That stops someone else using the xenforo brand name on something within the plumbing / sprinkler industry.
® is for an officially registered trademark within the country, ie. Pepsi, Coca Cola, big companies, register in every country they sell within or plan to sell within, thus ceasing any use of their brand name in pretty much nearly anything, industry related or not... but that costs massive dollars to achieve, of which would normally bankrupt a small to medium size business.
Trademark and even business names are country specific unless specifically registered across International borders. Just because the Internet is global, if you reside physically in the US as an example, and xenforo is not registered in the US as a trademark, then you can use xenforo, even in direct competition under xenforo the company you register in the US... different countries. Existing companies have held up the biggest of global companies with trademark use... just look at Burger King in Australia, hence why its called Hungry Jacks and branded uniquely, as a little business in NSW had the name Burger King registered before the US giant came here, and they couldn't do a thing about it and stopped them from using the name Australia wide for a long time until they finally bought it out. Only in the last few years have they slowly been swapping out Hungry Jacks to Burger King.
Location, location, location... and because you can reach any border via the web, doesn't negate location laws.
Mike or Kier could certainly state whether they have lodged the documents or not, but basically even though you put TM onto a domain name, it means nothing outside your physical location, ie. they are a UK company, so they could challenge trademark of xenforo against any new UK based company, but not International. Also, trademark only applies to the industry, ie. software, which when trademarking can come with support, faq, modifications, styles... you can add relevant sectors which will encompass many other things. That doesn't stop you starting up your own xenforo sprinkler company and then trademarking xenforo for use on sprinklers. That stops someone else using the xenforo brand name on something within the plumbing / sprinkler industry.
® is for an officially registered trademark within the country, ie. Pepsi, Coca Cola, big companies, register in every country they sell within or plan to sell within, thus ceasing any use of their brand name in pretty much nearly anything, industry related or not... but that costs massive dollars to achieve, of which would normally bankrupt a small to medium size business.
Trademark and even business names are country specific unless specifically registered across International borders. Just because the Internet is global, if you reside physically in the US as an example, and xenforo is not registered in the US as a trademark, then you can use xenforo, even in direct competition under xenforo the company you register in the US... different countries. Existing companies have held up the biggest of global companies with trademark use... just look at Burger King in Australia, hence why its called Hungry Jacks and branded uniquely, as a little business in NSW had the name Burger King registered before the US giant came here, and they couldn't do a thing about it and stopped them from using the name Australia wide for a long time until they finally bought it out. Only in the last few years have they slowly been swapping out Hungry Jacks to Burger King.
Location, location, location... and because you can reach any border via the web, doesn't negate location laws.
Anthony Parsons
Well-known member
Its actually like people trying to protect their names in countries, but someone from another country can obviously have the same name. I had a guy in the US contact me to remove his name being used on my site, but it wasn't about him, though was negative the comment made, and demanded it be removed and threatened legal action. I gave him the number to my lawyer and he had no legal basis, especially when it wasn't about him, and the comments made that clear who it was about at the time.
The web has these global borders, yet local laws... which is causing a lot of chaos globally right now. You can get away legally with quite a lot online due to country specific laws. Yet in some countries you can get smashed pretty hard as well.
The web has these global borders, yet local laws... which is causing a lot of chaos globally right now. You can get away legally with quite a lot online due to country specific laws. Yet in some countries you can get smashed pretty hard as well.
Kevin
Well-known member
I just purchased one - all the obvious ones were gone, so I grabbed xenique xen+unique which I will use for skins/styles/themes for this gorgeous software when it is released.
Uh, oh, John... looks like you'll be having some competition!
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