Gun control

[BGL]

Guns are in American DNA. They aren't going away.

Not really. Gun ownership was not that common in US until after US Civil War. After the Civil War, the gun mfg.s were left with huge capacity but no business, the NRA was created and "recreational" gun ownership was promoted. Then for sport reasons bat as that faded as the outdoor America shrank and hunting as a sport declined, the gun lobby went political, using fear to sell guns and ammo, using everything from black presidents to killings of school children to promote their evil business.

The problem is that Americans don't have a common enemy to unite against, so they fight each other.

That's not it either. American's have big oil as a common enemy, killing their planet, subverting their government to wage wars for oil, holding up progress on sustainable energy to sell their killer products, killing US economy to promote the oil industry. If America's were rallying around a common enemy it would mobs with pitchforks at the Exxon, BP and Mobile offices.

The religious zealots are also a common enemy from the Christian terrorists of Oklahoma City to the Muslim terrorists of World Trade Centers to the Texas Education Commission promoting religion over science in US elementary schools. Founders were bit on that one.

Another common enemy is health insurance industry that literally sucks the blood of US population, killing more children than crazy gun nuts, keeping 40% of US population from having health care vs. European 100% while costing the US 50% more than Europeans. Killers in cubicles.

We have lots of common enemies from the gun lobby, to oil companies, armaments mfgs and health insurance and drug industry to religious zealots trying to overthrow our religion free government.

 

[Jake Bunce]

That's not it either. American's have big oil as a common enemy, killing their planet, subverting their government to wage wars for oil, holding up progress on sustainable energy to sell their killer products, killing US economy to promote the oil industry. If America's were rallying around a common enemy it would mobs with pitchforks at the Exxon, BP and Mobile offices.

The religious zealots are also a common enemy from the Christian terrorists of Oklahoma City to the Muslim terrorists of World Trade Centers to the Texas Education Commission promoting religion over science in US elementary schools. Founders were bit on that one.

Another common enemy is health insurance industry that literally sucks the blood of US population, killing more children than crazy gun nuts, keeping 40% of US population from having health care vs. European 100% while costing the US 50% more than Europeans. Killers in cubicles.

We have lots of common enemies from the gun lobby, to oil companies, armaments mfgs and health insurance and drug industry to religious zealots trying to overthrow our religion free government.

Those aren't common enemies because they aren't shared in the perceptions of everyone. There is disagreement. People obviously are not united against any of those so-called common enemies.

 

[jasetaro]

Guns are in American DNA. They aren't going away. The problem is that Americans don't have a common enemy to unite against, so they fight each other. They need a worthy enemy to channel their anger. It's classic Yin and Yang. You can't increase Yin without also increasing Yang.

Did anyone see the movie Watchmen? That's a good example of what I am talking about. Adrian Veidt destroys major cities around the world and implicates Dr Manhattan, a worthy enemy. In response to these attacks the world unites in peace. It was a good plan. Adrian effectively outsourced the Yang off of the planet by way of Dr Manhattan thereby allowing the Earth to unite in Yin.

Maybe we could setup some annual event where Americans could kill stuff with their guns, thereby allowing them to vent their anger. That should reduce gun violence outside of the event.

Wouldn't help, the one common factor in each of these mass shootings is that every one of them is proceeded by undiagnosed mental illness... Instead of arguing about gun control maybe we should be talking about the sorry state of our mental health "system" (not that we have a system)... It's worth noting Connecticut is on of only six states in the U.S. that doesn’t have some type of assisted outpatient treatment or involuntary outpatient treatment law that allow for people with mental illness to be forcibly treated BEFORE they commit a serious crime. A bill that would have created such system was defeated in the legislature a few weeks before this incident BTW.

 

[BGL]

First of all I'm not a gun lobbyist, second the number of gun deaths you're citing comes from the CDC not the FBI. According to the CDC's morbidity report there were 31,347 total gun deaths in 2009... They've haven't released numbers 2011 yet as far as I can tell.

Glad I was able to point out your attempt to understate gun deaths in US using just "Murders" vs. gun deaths. That doesn't include the injuries which are almost as devastating, the shattered spines, guts and brains. That you were clearly trying to hide the facts of gun deaths in US certainly rates you a "gun lobbyist".

Guns are a deadly virus in the US.

 

[BGL]

Those aren't common enemies because they aren't shared in the perceptions of everyone. There is disagreement.

There is always disagreement over common enemy but the facts do show that all US citizens have several common enemies who cause death and injury to all Americans, gun lobby is one of those clearly identifiable common enemies.

 

[Jake Bunce]

There is always disagreement over common enemy but the facts do show that all US citizens have several common enemies who cause death and injury to all Americans, gun lobby is one of those clearly identifiable common enemies.

Think bigger. Think war.

 

[Kim]

I came to realize that, in essence, this is the way we in America want things to be. We want our freedom, and we want our firearms, and if we have to endure the occasional school shooting, so be it. A terrible shame, but hey — didn’t some guy in China just do the same thing with a knife?

NYTimes - More..
Gregory Gibson is the author of “Gone Boy: A Father’s Search for the Truth in His Son’s Murder.”

 

[jasetaro]

Glad I was able to point out your attempt to understate gun deaths in US using just "Murders" vs. gun deaths. That doesn't include the injuries which are almost as devastating, the shattered spines, guts and brains. That you were clearly trying to hide the facts of gun deaths in US certainly rates you a "gun lobbyist".

Guns are a deadly virus in the US.

I'm sorry I made a mistake that you want to brand of part grand conspiracy.

Where have I ever said I am opposed to reasonable common sense gun control laws? Connecticut already has already has some of strictest and IMO best gun control laws in the country. There are some elements like our assault weapons law that needs to be updated, but for most part I'm fine with as they are.

Anyway, peace out I'm done arguing with you.

 

[Paul M]

legalize it.

Great idea, control drug abuse by legalizing it - so while we are at it, lets legalize gun ownership to control that as well.

Oh wait .......

 

[BGL]

I'm sorry I made a mistake that you want to brand of part grand conspiracy.

Well don't get too grandiose...but it is a very common diversionary technique used by the gun lobbyists when faced with the epidemiological facts of gun deaths and injury in the US to try to hide the facts by understating the problem. You specifically claimed I was wrong and tried to make it look like the 30,000 gun deaths were just "8,000 murders".

You used a common dishonest argument of the gun lobby, it is fair to note it.

 

[BGL]

Think bigger. Think war.

A war on guns in America would be nice, a common enemy that kills us all and provides nightmares like the Newton killings of children, a common occurence in the US but masked by the normally individual nature of it, that mask ripped away by Newton, Columbine, Thurston and other mass school kid shootings, many by other kids...how the heck do kids to guns for mass killings of other kids?

Preventable disasters if we united against the common enemy of the gun lobby.

 

[EQnoble]

A war on guns in America would be nice, a common enemy that kills us all and provides nightmares like the Newton killings of children, a common occurence in the US but masked by the normally individual nature of it, that mask ripped away by Newton, Columbine, Thurston and other mass school kid shootings, many by other kids...how the heck do kids to guns for mass killings of other kids?

Preventable disasters if we united against the common enemy of the gun lobby.

Well don't get too grandiose...but it is a very common diversionary technique used by the gun lobbyists when faced with the epidemiological facts of gun deaths and injury in the US to try to hide the facts by understating the problem. You specifically claimed I was wrong and tried to make it look like the 30,000 gun deaths were just "8,000 murders".

You used a common dishonest argument of the gun lobby, it is fair to note it.

What do your statistics say about the fact that there are twice as many people that kill themselves with a gun than people who kill others with a gun.

5.75 people per 100000 in the us commit suicide with a gun...
and
3.72 people per 100000 in canada commit suicide with a gun...

do you think those people still wouldn't want to die if guns were illegal...
do you think a murderer wouldn't murder without a gun...

You have an agenda of promoting a feel good law...congrats.

 

[BGL]

What do your statistics say about the fact that there are twice as many people that kill themselves with a gun than people who kill others with a gun.

They say that is a big part of preventable gun deaths in America. Suicidal people should not have guns any more than homicidal people and it illustrates the problem of too easy availability of guns in the US, guns are deadly weapons and have no purpose other than killing.

You have an agenda of promoting a feel good law...congrats.

Effective gun laws as the results from Europe, Canada demonstrate with US at 30,000 gun deaths vs. other developed nations in the 100's. Evidence is clear. Gun regulations is effective in reducing the deadly virus of gun violence in the US.

 

[TNCclubman]

 

[EQnoble]

They say that is a big part of preventable gun deaths in America. Suicidal people should not have guns any more than homicidal people and it illustrates the problem of too easy availability of guns in the US, guns are deadly weapons and have no purpose other than killing.

Homicidal or suicidal people might not have been the night before and they will still have a kitchen with a drawer full of knives..

Effective gun laws as the results from Europe, Canada demonstrate with US at 30,000 gun deaths vs. other developed nations in the 100's. Evidence is clear. Gun regulations is effective in reducing the deadly virus of gun violence in the US.

Yet per person there is more rape in Europe than in the US...what a tradeoff.

 

[Brandon Sheley]

Ya.. because all those countries are the same size, population and all. There should be no other factors in your propaganda..
You're right.. that is a very fair and open minded comparison.. good on you

 

[DarkGizmo]

One thing about America and it's guns, it's far too easy for regular civis to get them. Which is completely un-necessary. Had this been a shotgun the conn. shooter used, he wouldn't have killed as many people. How/why? Cuz a shotgun holds roughly 5 rounds before it needs to be reloaded as opposed to a semi auto rifle that holds a 30 round clip. There is NO reason a civilian needs a semi-auto rifle.....

 

[EQnoble]

One thing about America and it's guns, it's far too easy for regular civis to get them. Which is completely un-necessary. Had this been a shotgun the conn. shooter used, he wouldn't have killed as many people. How/why? Cuz a shotgun holds roughly 5 rounds before it needs to be reloaded as opposed to a semi auto rifle that holds a 30 round clip. There is NO reason a civilian needs a semi-auto rifle.....

A shotgun can kill 5 people with one shot and pending the round used different levels of devastation could be achieved. Not only that, some shotguns are semiautomatic and have clips and it takes less than 2 or 3 seconds to change a clip. It is a moot point because I can have a .40 pistol with a 16 shot clip and in two seconds be reloaded with another 16, automatic, semi, bolt action, revolver ... it doesn't matter...it is that a crazy person had access to a gun someone else owned.

Saying that guns are a problem are pretty much saying all gun owners are part of that problem and to me a responsible gun owner that is slightly offensive.

Again...the problem is that a person irresponsibly stored a firearm and in this case someone lost it and used that gun to commit a horrible act.

The number of people that died this time is not the problem, it is that this person was able to acquire the gun illegally because of the negligence of his mother.

 

[DarkGizmo]

A shotgun can kill 5 people with one shot and pending the round used different levels of devastation could be achieved. Not only that, some shotguns are semiautomatic and have clips and it takes less than 2 or 3 seconds to change a clip. It is a moot point because I can have a .40 pistol with a 16 shot clip and in two seconds be reloaded with another 16, automatic, semi, bolt action, revolver ... it doesn't matter...it is that a crazy person had access to a gun someone else owned.

Saying that guns are a problem are pretty much saying all gun owners are part of that problem and to me a responsible gun owner that is slightly offensive.

Again...the problem is that a person irresponsibly stored a firearm and in this case someone lost it and used that gun to commit a horrible act.

The number of people that died this time is not the problem, it is that this person was able to acquire the gun illegally because of the negligence of his mother.

My point wasn't saying civilians shouldn't have guns. My point is that civilians shouldn't have access to military grade weaponary. NO normal civilian should be able to own a semi automatic assault rifle. There is just absolutely NO reason for it. I agree that the mother was negligent and partially responsible for this,and of course it's the individual's fault and not the gun itself. I'm just saying Civilians shouldn't be allowed to own certain types of firearms.

 

[Adam Howard]

You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here’s why.

It’s because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine?

Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he’ll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN’s article says that if the body count “holds up”, this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer’s face on all their reports for hours.

Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer’s identity? None that I’ve seen yet. Because they don’t sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you’ve just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man’s name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news.