jasetaro
Well-known member
Same here, I said all I care to say about this yesterday.
Gun control
- Thread starter Digital Doctor
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Same here, I said all I care to say about this yesterday.
BGL
Well-known member
Sometimes there is no middle and this is a case. You are either for more guns in the US which means more gun deaths and injury already 60 times greater than other developed nations like Germany or UK or you are for reducing the number of guns in the US and getting the same results Germany, UK, Canada get...200 gun deaths and year vs 30,000.
jasetaro
Well-known member
30, 000??? Where on earth did you get that grossly inflated number from?
According the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports there were 12,996 murders in the US in 2010 (the last year data is available for). Of those, 8,775 were caused by firearms. And those numbers are down are down dramatically from 2006 when there were 15,087 murders (10,225 caused by firearm).
EQnoble
Well-known member
You know what, I just typed a message that was twice the allowed char. limit, but I realized you are not worth it so I deleted it...you are ...never mind. Refrain from quoting me ever again to promote your agenda...if you can't respect that, I know that you are just a troll who deserves no more respect than that murderous kid.
I have been shot and I have been stabbed, and I can tell you with absolute fact that I would rather die from a gun shot wound than as a stabbing victim. Taking away guns will NOT lower the amount of violence it will just be robbing peter to pay paul. People will say hey look gun related deaths are down...but those same people will leave out how many deaths increased from other weapons, and most of those people have no real data point or experience with using either in self defense.
And it is not either side....you could just want to do nothing...or you could be trying to attack the real problem...sick twisted people snapping and killing because at the time they think it is logical. That is not a gun problem, that is a mentality problem. If someone uses a car to kill someone would making cars illegal solve anything, what about all the people who died on hijacked planes, no one used a gun there....would you suggest that making flying illegal would reduce murders? No, it would make something else a target and numbers would go up in other areas as far as statistics go. The statistics do not cover the mental state of all or even one of the people in those statistics and that is the real problem.
Gary Thomas Bolton
New member
Crazy topic here! I wouldn't even have a go at tackling this on my forums
Lucas
Well-known member
I love how everyone in the US believes that everyone should have a gun because it's their right to. Well, obviously that right is being squeezed too much and failing to have the control it should. At this point, I have no clue of what happened or how it happened, I just know a lot of kids died as well as the folks of the murder.
I've lived in Argentina, Mexico, Venezuela, United Sates and Costa Rica. Until now the only place I've experienced this fanatic shootouts is the US. Actually, you know how it works in latin america? IT's like you wake up, get to college/work and something and you know what people say to you... "Dude, did you see that new shooting in the US?". Everyone having a gun as they please definitely doesn't work. If there were less guns distributed there would be less shootings. If you end up making it harder it will be harder for people to get them, only those who are really ****ed up in the head will do anything to get them just to go kill someone else.
It's a really complicated subject, but yes, I completely believe the less guns the country has the less likely people are to use them against others. Doesn't matter how pro or not you're with a gun, just the fact that you have one could ALWAYS end up in the possiblity of you being shot, specially if it's someone prepared to kill you. Do you think because you have a gun in your house and someone decides to shoot you or go kill you he'll just go up the door and shoot you, you'll probably not even notice, so no, I don't think it's the solution for you to carry a gun at home.
That's just my two cents, even though I'll see an influx of pro-gun comments after this. I can still in my head decide that I don't need a gun at my house and never will, I've shot, hunted and everything you want, I still don't need a gun.
And yes, marijuana should be legalized, it's way more healthier than tabacco or alcohol and actually has a lot of medicinal value, prohibition is just made to make the rich richer and flood corruption, gun trafficking and ****ing up all latin america to feed the necessity of drugs in america, while the UN is the one oposing which was founded by the US. Hypocrisy at it's best. We got all the cartles and killings due to trafficking while the US enjoys putting in jail their harmless marijuana smokers instead of going for real crime as it's easier and business make tons of money out of jail. It's ridiculous.
I've lived in Argentina, Mexico, Venezuela, United Sates and Costa Rica. Until now the only place I've experienced this fanatic shootouts is the US. Actually, you know how it works in latin america? IT's like you wake up, get to college/work and something and you know what people say to you... "Dude, did you see that new shooting in the US?". Everyone having a gun as they please definitely doesn't work. If there were less guns distributed there would be less shootings. If you end up making it harder it will be harder for people to get them, only those who are really ****ed up in the head will do anything to get them just to go kill someone else.
It's a really complicated subject, but yes, I completely believe the less guns the country has the less likely people are to use them against others. Doesn't matter how pro or not you're with a gun, just the fact that you have one could ALWAYS end up in the possiblity of you being shot, specially if it's someone prepared to kill you. Do you think because you have a gun in your house and someone decides to shoot you or go kill you he'll just go up the door and shoot you, you'll probably not even notice, so no, I don't think it's the solution for you to carry a gun at home.
That's just my two cents, even though I'll see an influx of pro-gun comments after this. I can still in my head decide that I don't need a gun at my house and never will, I've shot, hunted and everything you want, I still don't need a gun.
And yes, marijuana should be legalized, it's way more healthier than tabacco or alcohol and actually has a lot of medicinal value, prohibition is just made to make the rich richer and flood corruption, gun trafficking and ****ing up all latin america to feed the necessity of drugs in america, while the UN is the one oposing which was founded by the US. Hypocrisy at it's best. We got all the cartles and killings due to trafficking while the US enjoys putting in jail their harmless marijuana smokers instead of going for real crime as it's easier and business make tons of money out of jail. It's ridiculous.
So let me get this straight, you want to legalize marijuana, because since it's outlawed it's causing crime, then at the same time you want to criminalize gun ownership? Your hypocrisy invalidates everything you have to say.
Plus you know nothing about what you speak, running jails doesn't make money. It costs money. A huge amount of money.
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
Every rational country in the entire world is doing a better job of gun control that the United States. You would think people would get a good message about the need for change .... when you are in LAST place ?
I thought America took pride in their nation ?
Should America be comfortable in last place ?
And believe me ... it's last place.
Dead last.
I thought America took pride in their nation ?
Should America be comfortable in last place ?
And believe me ... it's last place.
Dead last.
EQnoble
Well-known member
GUN CONTROL IS NOT THE F*CKING PROBLEM...IT IS INDIVIDUALS MAKING CHOICES...
YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL THOSE WHO FOLLOW LAWS....PEOPLE WHO MURDER UNPROVOKED DO NOT FOLLOW LAWS....HOW IS THIS SOLVING ANYTHING.
WHEN YOUR KID GETS HIT BY A CAR AND YOU COME HERE LOOKING TO BASH THE GUY DRIVING I CAN EASILY SAY CANADIANS ARE HORRIBLE DRIVERS AND YOU DON'T NEED CARS NOW. SOUND ABOUT RIGHT?
PLEASE
USE
LOGIC
YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL THOSE WHO FOLLOW LAWS....PEOPLE WHO MURDER UNPROVOKED DO NOT FOLLOW LAWS....HOW IS THIS SOLVING ANYTHING.
WHEN YOUR KID GETS HIT BY A CAR AND YOU COME HERE LOOKING TO BASH THE GUY DRIVING I CAN EASILY SAY CANADIANS ARE HORRIBLE DRIVERS AND YOU DON'T NEED CARS NOW. SOUND ABOUT RIGHT?
PLEASE
USE
LOGIC
steven s
Well-known member
craigiri
Well-known member
All caps? Logic?
Do you really see no difference between the use of cars, which we use for the most important parts of our lives on a daily basis - and optional machines meant (usually) for sport and killing?
Logic has to start at the beginning.
It's not a matter of foisting beliefs on anyone, it's more of matter of those who seem to suspend disbelief when talking about certain subjects.
You talk about logic and then educate folks by telling them guns don't kill people by themselves? Why not start with even more obvious "facts". Guns are not really guns. They are molecules and atoms all with structures rotating around nuclei at a certain speed. Isn't that relevant?
steven s
Well-known member
I understand the logic.
The problem is with society. And to be honest, I feel this time of year is the most stressful time of year for many people.
How many fatalities are there due to distracted or drunk driving?
Ban alcohol. Ban cell phones.
It's a social problem that needs fixing.
Must be nice to live in Pleasantville where there is zero crime, no poverty and everyone gets along.
craigiri
Well-known member
Again, the obvious. A certain percentage of people are mentally ill. It will never be different.
If you want to solve problems, you have to start with facts.
Cell phone use while driving has been addressed in many ways. Lots of deadly accidents have been caused by them, so we address it. For some reason - maybe you can inform me - people did not jump up and down when cell phone and texting laws are put into place.
So, here are the facts...
Many people are mentally ill.
US Society will not change nor address these things anytime soon.
There are 300 Million firearms in the USA
Many sick people have them and will continue to have access to them.
If anyone can address solutions which keep those 4 truths in mind, then have at it.
If we look at the "society" angle, does that mean no violent video games, TV, movies....no more militarism in the USA, no wars all over the globe, etc? Are we willing to address the violence which is part of our society....?
If, on the other hand, we want to just put up with this - and let it spread until people can't go to school, sporting events, concerts, movies, etc. without fearing for their lives....then that's that. I believe in democracy. If more Americans think these events are the price of freedom, I'm certainly not going to change it.
It does bug me that people drop all sanity and logic when they approach this issue...that's plain crazy. In the end, it's a public health and safety issue like many others and can be addressed just as do with others.
If you want to solve problems, you have to start with facts.
Cell phone use while driving has been addressed in many ways. Lots of deadly accidents have been caused by them, so we address it. For some reason - maybe you can inform me - people did not jump up and down when cell phone and texting laws are put into place.
So, here are the facts...
Many people are mentally ill.
US Society will not change nor address these things anytime soon.
There are 300 Million firearms in the USA
Many sick people have them and will continue to have access to them.
If anyone can address solutions which keep those 4 truths in mind, then have at it.
If we look at the "society" angle, does that mean no violent video games, TV, movies....no more militarism in the USA, no wars all over the globe, etc? Are we willing to address the violence which is part of our society....?
If, on the other hand, we want to just put up with this - and let it spread until people can't go to school, sporting events, concerts, movies, etc. without fearing for their lives....then that's that. I believe in democracy. If more Americans think these events are the price of freedom, I'm certainly not going to change it.
It does bug me that people drop all sanity and logic when they approach this issue...that's plain crazy. In the end, it's a public health and safety issue like many others and can be addressed just as do with others.
BGL
Well-known member
A hilariously meaningless comment regarding gun regulation and an example of the bizarre arguments made by the gun lobbyists. You'd rather be shot than forked to death either I'm sure.
You have it upside down as you are much more likely to die of a gun shot, your death wishes in the matter are irrelevant.
Guns are much more deadly which is why we see much higher gun death rates. Guns are deadly weapons, knives we eat our food with, very useful tools.
Whoops...you somehow didn't keep reading (or correctly reporting) the FBI Uniform Crime Reports on GUN DEATHS and somehow, not to obfuscate I'm sure, no gun lobbyist would do that, left out ALL GUN DEATHS vs. MURDERS, 31,347 GUN DEATHS in US in 2011.
Jake Bunce
Well-known member
Guns are in American DNA. They aren't going away. The problem is that Americans don't have a common enemy to unite against, so they fight each other. They need a worthy enemy to channel their anger. It's classic Yin and Yang. You can't increase Yin without also increasing Yang.
Did anyone see the movie Watchmen? That's a good example of what I am talking about. Adrian Veidt destroys major cities around the world and implicates Dr Manhattan, a worthy enemy. In response to these attacks the world unites in peace. It was a good plan. Adrian effectively outsourced the Yang off of the planet by way of Dr Manhattan thereby allowing the Earth to unite in Yin.
Maybe we could setup some annual event where Americans could kill stuff with their guns, thereby allowing them to vent their anger. That should reduce gun violence outside of the event.
Did anyone see the movie Watchmen? That's a good example of what I am talking about. Adrian Veidt destroys major cities around the world and implicates Dr Manhattan, a worthy enemy. In response to these attacks the world unites in peace. It was a good plan. Adrian effectively outsourced the Yang off of the planet by way of Dr Manhattan thereby allowing the Earth to unite in Yin.
Maybe we could setup some annual event where Americans could kill stuff with their guns, thereby allowing them to vent their anger. That should reduce gun violence outside of the event.
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
So you can't reduce gun related homicide by reducing the number of guns ?
The US has more "Active Shooter" incidents than Germany because there are more people "making individual choices" ?
erich37
Well-known member
jasetaro
Well-known member
First of all I'm not a gun lobbyist, second the number of gun deaths you're citing comes from the CDC not the FBI. According to the CDC's morbidity report there were 31,347 total gun deaths in 2009... They've haven't released numbers 2011 yet as far as I can tell.
Edit: I should add that I'm all for reasonable common sense gun control laws, and for the most Connecticut has them. The state's so-called assault weapons law is so convoluted even the state police will admit privately that enforcement is problematic at best.
Jake Bunce
Well-known member
Exactly.
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