Free Speech in Forums

[chousho]

You are far better at stating words of cognition to the masses than me obviously and you make a great point. Every forum is unique (i hope) and with that they should have different rules (again i hope) for the reason you expressed in your second paragraph. I guess the best summary of my view on an optimal freespeach policy on a forum would be....

You are free to express your opinion in any way you see fit as long as you do not circumvent these following rules...
insert rules here or a link to the rules/Tos area of the site.
Violate these rules with your freedoms and receive a free infraction or ban notice - 3 infractions = ban
have a nice day ( obviously end this and expand this how you will but this is how I see things as a generalization )

You did a fine job yourself~ I just like to state my own opinions in order to exercise my rights to free speech ^_~

 

[EQnoble]

Using free speech to express free thoughts on free speech in the free speech in forums thread... Damn did I hear fire works?

 

[chousho]

Using free speech to express free thoughts on free speech in the free speech in forums thread... Damn did I hear fire works?

No, I think that was just my mind blowing up from the sheer awesomeness.

Either that or all of the urchins rushing over me from hearing the word "free" and rushing for a hand out :O

 

[EQnoble]

<--- normally hates short posts but.

LMAO!! EPIC

 

[Carl]

Oh dear Floris showed himself to be the most moronic admin ever! shame

 

[Stuart Wright]

Deciding what and what not to allow your members to say on your forums is a very tricky job to get right and to then enforce. Ultimately I think the successful forums are proactive about nurturing a friendly, welcoming atmosphere so that new members feel confident to post and are not intimidated by the veterans.
Running a forum is a tricky job and requires some tough decisions.
I usually run mine past the team of moderators and jointly we refine and mature our rules. I think you have to state your rules, even those which relate to anti-social behaviour.
Our rule 1 says you must not

1. Post libellous, insulting, antagonistic, racist, aggressive or otherwise abusive remarks about any individual or company either within forum posts or the PM (Private Message) system. (More details on this issue are found below). We reserve the right to read the relevant PM or PMs where we receive a complaint that a forum user has received a PM or PMs breaking this rule.

 

[Floris]

Oh dear Floris showed himself to be the most moronic admin ever! shame

It's a shame you simply can't see that we still apply common sense, logic, and morals.

But I see my site as my house, and you're welcome when I let you in. Free speech is left outside the door. And if I don't want you in my house anymore, I can simply decline access.

Are you going to allow someone who has the intention to kick over your kitchen table or hit your children to be inside your house because they shout "free speech, free speech!"?

If that makes me a bad admin, I am very proud of that.

Hiding behind something like Stuart posted: "aggressive or otherwise abusive" doesn't cut it, if you believe in Free speech. Since that example is exactly why I would decline someone the door to my site.

Register on a site, you void free speech. Sorry if people don't agree to that, but they personally do read the rules and click on [x] agree, before completing registration.

 

[Shelley]

It's a shame you simply can't see that we still apply common sense, logic, and morals.

But I see my site as my house, and you're welcome when I let you in. Free speech is left outside the door. And if I don't want you in my house anymore, I can simply decline access.

Are you going to allow someone who has the intention to kick over your kitchen table or hit your children to be inside your house because they shout "free speech, free speech!"?

If that makes me a bad admin, I am very proud of that.

Hiding behind something like Stuart posted: "aggressive or otherwise abusive" doesn't cut it, if you believe in Free speech. Since that example is exactly why I would decline someone the door to my site.

Register on a site, you void free speech. Sorry if people don't agree to that, but they personally do read the rules and click on [x] agree, before completing registration.

Damn you floris you got me with your signature.

 

[Anthony Parsons]

On a trauma based forum I run, it is now the #1 global resource for its subject, and one of the reasons for that is because it has always been heavily moderated. People aren't allowed to post crap, piss poor abbreviated online writing is not allowed, basic grammar is a requirement, ie. how hard is it to actually use the browsers built-in spell check to check your post... very strict rules, and as a result of those rules remaining over the years, people flock to it because it has some structure compared to the useless waffle and nonsense that occurs on other similar / same topic forums. Some don't like it... they voice it, but they are not going to change what works. Their unique choices stops at, conform to the site rules or leave.

If I ran a forum aimed at young kids, then expectations would be the opposite, being lots of bright things, abbreviated text would be considered normal, blinking and flashing things, etc... audience is everything, as well as topic.

 

[Erik]

Haven't read through the thread, but in the United States it is the government that is restricted from infringing on your free speech, not private corporations or individuals. This is something I've seen a lot of people not understand as they run around chanting "Free speech! Free speech!" If you don't like that the forum won't allow you to say something, then leave. Simple as that.

If an admin bans you simply because he does not like you, then he may be an ass, but I don't see anything wrong with what he did. Don't come back to his community. In the long run he's only hurting himself because he's making his community less active.

 

[EQnoble]

exactly.... thats the point im trying to make if I have less freedom here (any forum) than when im a slave to society why would I make posts to help your site get higher in page rankings in search results. All I'm saying is YOU ARE FREE TO DO WHATEVER AS LONG AS IT FALLS INSIDE THE OTHER RULES IN PLACE , if not the site your running would be rather mislabeled as a community site. If my posts are changed because it's not what you want me to say... delete me and make up your own post with a fake posting name which as a webmaster you have full right to do. And freedom of speech is only a LAW in certain places and as stated does not apply to a personal residence. That being said if you try to take away more liberty than a government i don't see how you can keep people wanting to post. I don't get why people can't see the part said where as long as you follow these rules you can say what you like. All you have to do is come up with a simple set of rules and post them. Were not arguing over a webmasters position to remove someone however I ask you a question and it's very simple.
Do you want someones opinion or are you trying to give it to them.
If you don't want people to have their own ideas, make a static page and ban posters. In my mind the essence of a forum IS freedom of speech , obviously using the term freedom of speech in forums is misleading to people because every country is different and people are directly correlating this to a govt standard....but that said if you have to tell someone what to post they aren't really posting THEIR mind they're jumping on a bandwagon.

If you run an iphone based forum you can tell me that in lets say official sections only post iphone related things...and also the obvious respect for one another and other common rules. You can tell me what not to post (in this case iphone related things only, ) but to tell me I have to favor apple because you like them would be rediculous (but within your RIGHTS as the site owner.) and beyond the point of running a forum and banning me from your site for being mad that they told me it's my fault for being born left handed and thats why my Iphone4 doesn't work would make me think you get paid to favor them from the standpoint of an average user.

 

[anotheralias]

Hiding behind something like Stuart posted: "aggressive or otherwise abusive" doesn't cut it, if you believe in Free speech. Since that example is exactly why I would decline someone the door to my site.

Register on a site, you void free speech. Sorry if people don't agree to that, but they personally do read the rules and click on [x] agree, before completing registration.

It's pretty much the only way to go, to me. Whoever runs the forum sets the tone, and people are free to accept that tone or look elsewhere.

And I don't know where people got the idea that forums have anything to do with free speech - no forum owner anywhere in the world is suppressing your free speech by telling you what you can or can not post on their forum. Now if they took over your forum and told you what you could say on it, then you've got a case. But "free speech" does not grant you* the right to say whatever the hell you like on someone's forum with no consequences, any more than it grants you the right to barge into your neighbor's home and harass them with your views on global warming.

*The "you" being plural here.

 

[EQnoble]

All I'm saying is YOU ARE FREE TO DO WHATEVER AS LONG AS IT FALLS INSIDE THE OTHER RULES IN PLACE

Bottom line is you ( to be a responsible webmaster) need to tell your community what they can't do and what they can in the first place and make it clear other wise your setting yourself up for problems of misunderstanding that eventually will probably get blamed on one user to minimize collateral damage and wrongfully I might add.

Hearing someone and listening are two different things, the defining terms being cognition.
If my opinons are not made freely then they are not mine. they are yours in my words.

 

[Anthony Parsons]

Always cautious of anything that comes with FREE included within it.

 

[EQnoble]

Always cautious of anything that comes with FREE included within it.

Funny you say that, I was thinking it and didn't say it in the previous post as I thought it would have detracted from the point I was trying, but seeing as you brought up the game-breaking theory and it has complete relevance to this topic I can second that as well.

more often then not it's the free things in life that will cost you the most to keep

(respond here now , if you post now you get not double but triple the post count and a free juicer and our limited lifetime money back guarantee watch your post cut through miles of threads and still stay sharp to cut me from your watching list: call 1-800-Post-now )

Promotion considerations are not guaranteed and are a complete joke sorry for the confusion. Don't file suit on me for falso promo of post value. Residents in the area of earth may not apply for this promotion nor can the make believe affiliates of my make believe company , gtg i have a make believe business meeting.


LOL sorry couldn't help myself I see free in capitol letters and i think infomercials

EDITED: for comical value

 

[Floris]

It's pretty much the only way to go, to me. Whoever runs the forum sets the tone, and people are free to accept that tone or look elsewhere.

And I don't know where people got the idea that forums have anything to do with free speech - no forum owner anywhere in the world is suppressing your free speech by telling you what you can or can not post on their forum. Now if they took over your forum and told you what you could say on it, then you've got a case. But "free speech" does not grant you* the right to say whatever the hell you like on someone's forum with no consequences, any more than it grants you the right to barge into your neighbor's home and harass them with your views on global warming.

*The "you" being plural here.

Because as admin you do set the tone, it's your house, your furniture, your fridge, your wallpaper, it's up to you to be a douchebag or a friendly host.

Just because you're capable and have the freedom to decline someone the door, doesn't mean you directly hurt your community. The opposite. You protect those who you host with a service of 'feel like you are home' from those who would join to wrack the place. Like spammers, like actual douche bags, or people you don't like (and usually for a good reason). Keep the place clean, everybody is happy.

If you run into my house shouting free speech free speech, you're already being disruptive.

Common sense, logic and morals win from a free speech law. If people think that means I would be a bad admin or that attitude is a reason why a community would fail. Then I don't share that opinion, good thing in the irony of this is: I don't have to.

I rather be conceived as a douche bag admin, than actually be an admin with a douche bag filled community.

 

[Kim]

There is no such thing as a right to free speech in most of the world.

Forums are rarely if ever the most democratic of places to begin with, the notion of Freedom of Speech within a Forum would be very unusual, and frankly pretty unworkable if you owned the forum.

Having said that, I have been on some forums that are so tightly wound all joy or intellect is instantly squeezed out of them... and I have been on Forums so lax in rules that it is a feral free for all.

Neither appeals to me.

 

[EQnoble]

There is no such thing as a right to free speech in most of the world.

Forums are rarely if ever the most democratic of places to begin with, the notion of Freedom of Speech within a Forum would be very unusual, and frankly pretty unworkable if you owned the forum.

Having said that, I have been on some forums that are so tightly wound all joy or intellect is instantly squeezed out of them... and I have been on Forums so lax in rules that it is a feral free for all.

Neither appeals to me.

which is why i say it boils down to the admins of a particular site and more specifically the owner... with a well laid out set of guidelines and rules, free speech is possible as long as you agree not to break X rules in doing so... the"free speech" idea as we're calling it should be used to enhance the point of quality of the forums in question not super-cede the point of the forum itself.

If something thats borderline is posted the admins / moderators can simply contact the poster and discuss they're angle to see if it breaks the rules and what is there purpose of the message so any future changes in the rules can be made..and again those changes inherantly effect the rights to use our so called "free speech"

My example dragonfly is that your post like mine is opinion and to some people considered conjecture. Thats why we have rules. All must obide by them. Yes you have your rights to your opinion but the site's rights comes first and your rights only extend to the site because the owner extended his rights to post on that server to you. If we didn't have "free speech" on this forum every post would be in a moderation queue. But its not, that's why i have your free speech above this to reply to.

Assuming you say neither appeals to you, somewhere in the middle must. And you having freedom to say what you want inside the context of the site's global rules and the admins adjusting the TOS as they see fit as time goes, making solid content influx a possibility instead of a struggle, seems to solve the issues for me.

 

[Kim]

which is why i say it boils down to the admins of a particular site and more specifically the owner... with a well laid out set of guidelines and rules free speech is possible as long as you agree not to break X rules in doing so... the"free speech" idea as we're calling it should be used to enhance the point of quality of the forums in question not super-cede the point of the forum itself.

If something thats borderline is posted the admins / moderatrs can simply contact the poster and discuss they're angle to see if it breaks the rules and what is there purpose of the message so any future changes in the rules can be made..and again those changes inherantly effect the rights to use are so called "free speech"

I agree somewhat... but I disagree that it is what is commonly termed "Free Speech", as in the USA constitutional rights interpretation that USA citizens think applies globally. A lot of people are deluded into thinking they have some right to spout whatever they want where ever they want based on their Nationality alone.

It is impossible to legislate against all bad behaviour, nor should you as an Admin have to think of every possible infraction and post a rule against it prior to it happening. Forums are not Democratic states.

The concept of Free Speech is a worthy one, but not very realistic in an arena so open as the internet. Whoever "owns" the space is going to dictate their own interpretation of Free Speech on their netizens, regardless of where they come from.

 

[EQnoble]

See exactly , you bring up a plain text version of what i've been babeling about(which i tend to do), it's the terms "free speech" and peoples defining terms for them that brings confusion. Whether in the united states or in a forum.
but the principle is the same, if your people don't have free opinion on your site (within your terms that is) then all you end up with is a bunch of yes men... look how that went in Julius Caesar's life and as a matter of fact it damaged a forum of his own.

I ask the mods/admins to change this topic respectfully to Free-opinions-in-forums to avoid the attachment of free speech to US law

My proof for this is without your free opinion stated clearly in text, i would not know your perspective from where i am standing...thank you for bringing your world to us here.