XF 2.1 Deleting a Title Name causes big problems

DigNap15

Well-known member
Hello
This is not a bug but it causes a big problem.
if you go ACP > User Title Ladder and then delete one of the Titles (by clicking on the check box) the Title Name disappaears.
But then, all of your members with that title revert to New Member!
The only way to fix this, is then to somehow find those members and give them their original title name via Custom Title in their profle. Hours of work!

I think that if you delete a Ttitle Name from the Ladder, then the system should leave the names of members as they were.
Or at least put a warnng on the on the User Title Ladder page
Or revert to the next level down! Not New Member
 

Chris D

XenForo developer
Staff member
There's a lot to say here because there are a few apparent misunderstandings but I guess we'll start with the big thing:
The only way to fix this, is then to somehow find those members and give them their original title name via Custom Title in their profle. Hours of work!

That is not at all what you would need to do. You're conflating two different things here. We have a user title ladder, which is what your bug report is about, and we have custom titles.

The user title ladder is a list of available user titles that users will dynamically switch between depending on the criteria you set. Custom titles are a totally static value that can be applied per member. There are also user group titles which can override the user title ladder.

They appear in the same place on a user's profile but they're all separate. If either the user title ladder value or group title becomes unset, the solution certainly isn't to apply custom titles manually. Custom titles are for one-off or exceptional values that are designed to be manually set if that is required. To give multiple users the same title, setting custom titles is not the way.

I think that if you delete a Ttitle Name from the Ladder, then the system should leave the names of members as they were.
Well, no. It is essentially a lookup table of values, almost like a ranking system. You can add or remove or change values from the user title ladder as much as you like. That's what it's for. If for some reason the values stuck around after they were deleted then how would you ever replace or rename a title you didn't want anymore? Generally if you delete something, by design, it is supposed to be deleted.

In this case if you have "Old member" with a value of 100 messages and "Not so old member" with a value of 50 messages and "New member" with a value of 0 messages, then obviously if the "Not so old member" one is deleted the correct behaviour is anyone who had between 0-100 messages would now be "New member" because that is now the correct value to have based on the values provided in the user title ladder.

Or revert to the next level down! Not New Member
That is exactly what happens already and is consistent with my example above. If your users got "New Member" then that's the correct value for them after you deleted the previous value.

The scheduled task would have taken care of it, or you could have run it manually.
Don't do this. Run the user title task.
Sorry but this is totally misleading. It's just not how the user title ladder is managed or built. There is no "scheduled task" or task to run.

The correct solution is simple: You just need to add the previous value back in to the user title ladder screen:

1607506114542.png

In the field labelled "New" you just need to write the previous title back in and set the desired minimum value and click "Update user titles". If you put in exactly the same values as there were before you deleted them then it would apply instantly and automatically to all members.
 
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beerForo

Well-known member
Sorry @DigNap15 I needed sleep.

night GIF
 

DigNap15

Well-known member
Thanks for your detailed reply Chris
I now undertand the Title Ladder a little better.

But I do wish there had been some warning on the User Ttile Ladder page as to what would happen.
As I said when I deleted the top ranking (of four) and those members just about all revereted to the bottom rank - New Member. I ocudl have accepted it if they had reverted down the the next highest level.

I have found that using the Title Ladder is problematic for another reason in that it may take a member a year to get from "New Memeber" to the next level. During that time they are still a "New Member." I think about 3 months is enough to be a new member.
Another problem is what happens when a member reaches one of the higher levels, and then stops psoting. Say they are an "Active Member" but then they are no longer an Active and they deserve to be down graded.

Unforntnatey I do not know what the deafult settings of the Title Ladder were, as a frend set it up for me on my start up

My question still stands - Is there a way of disabling the User Title Ladder to stop further automatic promtions.? I still have 3 Ttiles in my Title Ladder.

I have been using a Custom Title on 500 of my 1,200 members for nearly one year now.
You said "To give multiple users the same title, setting custom titles is not the way."

I am giving all of my Member a Custom Title Manually as I see it as the only way that reflects the status of my Members
Can you see a problem with this (other than the time invloved)

PS I have been with XF for nearly a year now!
I will be renewing my licence, and am very happy with XF and all the work you and your team does
 

nicodak

Well-known member
I now undertand the Title Ladder a little better.
it seems not. If you delete a user title ladder, all users who were at that level are automatically assigned the title of the lower level. And if the lower level is "new member" then they will be new member.
I think about 3 months is enough to be a new member.
User titles are not achieved over time but with the number of messages (which you can manually adapt to your needs). if your second level is at 500 messages all users who reach 500 messages will have the corresponding title ladder, regardless of whether they take 3 days or 6 months to reach them.
Say they are an "Active Member" but then they are no longer an Active and they deserve to be down graded.
You can change the title ladder to your needs if you think Active member is not adapted to the situation.
 

DigNap15

Well-known member
Ideally I'd like to be able to disable the Titles Ladder.
Arbitarilyy setting member titles by the number of posts is not really accurate, as they may have stopped posting, or just post once every 3 months or just Lurk
My Members are getting promoted and demoted at random all over the place.
I am giving them all Custom Titles manually, which hopefully will remain constant
 

beerForo

Well-known member
You don't have to use it. I don't. But you probably need to adjust your wording. You don't need to call them Active, do like XF; "Well-known," etc.

Manually giving people titles on a busy forum is ridiculous. .
 
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Mr Lucky

Well-known member
f you delete a user title ladder, all users who were at that level are automatically assigned the title of the lower level.
This is what I would think, lower level being one level lower than the deleted level .

However I am confused because OP seems to be saying they go the the lowest level of the three (remaining) levels:
As I said when I deleted the top ranking (of four) and those members just about all revereted to the bottom rank
 

DigNap15

Well-known member
This is what I would think, lower level being one level lower than the deleted level .

However I am confused because OP seems to be saying they go the the lowest level of the three (remaining) levels:
Most of the top level members dropped down to the next level ((as people have said on here that they should)
But some dropped down to the bottom level causing lots of embarrasmnent
 

DigNap15

Well-known member
Can anyone tell me what the default Titles were?
My forum was setup a year ago by a friend
They were New Member, Member, Active Member and Well Known Member
Are these the XF defaults, or did my firend set the up
 

beerForo

Well-known member
Can anyone tell me what the default Titles were?
My forum was setup a year ago by a friend
They were New Member, Member, Active Member and Well Known Member
Are these the XF defaults, or did my firend set the up
The word Active seems to be your issue here so just delete or rename.
 

beerForo

Well-known member
Some people like to use the ladder for their niche. For example, since yours is politics, a user with 10,000 posts might be Political Guru. Just a quick example, come up with your own.
 
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