California Case Update

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This is just me speculating, because I can, but I wonder if the delay in new releases is due not because of lack of development, but rather so that new code is not introduced during an ongoing lawsuit, to prevent further attempts by IB to delay because of a need to examine new code again and again.

The more I think about it, the more this makes perfect sense. Why give IB anything new to litigate about? Hold all development back until the litigation is over, and when it is, release more than we are all expecting...

Of course, I'll allow that this could all be poppycock too.... I'm not going to hold my breath.
 
CivilWarTalk said:
This is just me speculating, because I can, but I wonder if the delay in new releases is due not because of lack of development, but rather so that new code is not introduced during an ongoing lawsuit, to prevent further attempts by IB to delay because of a need to examine new code again and again.

The more I think about it, the more this makes perfect sense. Why give IB anything new to litigate about? Hold all development back until the litigation is over, and when it is, release more than we are all expecting...

Of course, I'll allow that this could all be poppycock too.... I'm not going to hold my breath.
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Why would that be? IANAL but it sounds fairly "reasonable" to print out source code at a certain point in time, i.e when suit was filed and have the litigation be about the submitted documents.

However unlikely your speculation might be, if that is the case: the lawsuit is not going to come to an end before a long time. Not communicating this strategy to your customers, is quite possibly worse than the lack of expected updates.

I certainly am not going to wait another 6 months on the off chance they get their act together.
 
CivilWarTalk said:
This is just me speculating, because I can, but I wonder if the delay in new releases is due not because of lack of development, but rather so that new code is not introduced during an ongoing lawsuit, to prevent further attempts by IB to delay because of a need to examine new code again and again.

The more I think about it, the more this makes perfect sense. Why give IB anything new to litigate about? Hold all development back until the litigation is over, and when it is, release more than we are all expecting...

Of course, I'll allow that this could all be poppycock too.... I'm not going to hold my breath.
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I've been trying to say that since this lawsuit started, but there are way too many people getting their drama started and blurring the simple reality. They are under lawsuit, everything they do or don't do goes back to court, so they have to be careful, it makes sense, there is no conspiracy, IMO.
 
Source code has already been viewed and documented prior as unique from VB's claims. It is a non-starter point.

A newer version of XF is still being built upon the current code, it is purely more features that will be released, not new source code.
 
Lucas said:
I've been trying to say that since this lawsuit started, but there are way too many people getting their drama started and blurring the simple reality. They are under lawsuit, everything they do or don't do goes back to court, so they have to be careful, it makes sense, there is no conspiracy, IMO.
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Regarding your choice of words: simple reality, everything they do, it makes sense.

Are you a lawyer? Failing that, are you in the very least acquainted with legal procedures?

Considering the argument that a lawsuit --in the strictest legal sense-- should have no impact on communication and product development a conspiracy theory is dismissive.

To my knowledge there are no upheld injunctions in the filed cases.

vBulletin has abandoned its bid for a preliminary injunction against Kier and XenForo.

An injunction would have prevented XenForo from doing business prior to trial.
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Don't start implying there might be a superinjunction or other such forms of gagging orders.

In closing --and I hate to burst your bubble but-- your argument that everything they do or don't do goes back to court, has absolutely no basis in reality.


Anthony Parsons said:
Source code has already been viewed and documented prior as unique from VB's claims. It is a non-starter point.

A newer version of XF is still being built upon the current code, it is purely more features that will be released, not new source code.
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^ this.
 
TheBigK said:
If I'm not mistaken, that takes the whole air out of IB's claim against XF, right? IB filed a case claiming KAM used their proprietary vB code.
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Not completely, Internet Brands at the time, claimed copyright infringement, breach of contract, and misappropriation of trade secrets. Some of those can from my --admittedly uneducated perspective-- still apply, and may be valid. Whether the XF core infringes upon their IP is secondary to that.
 
whyweprotest said:
Regarding your choice of words: simple reality, everything they do, it makes sense.

Are you a lawyer? Failing that, are you in the very least acquainted with legal procedures?
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Forgot to add 'could', sorry. I was giving the point of view of a regular member, no need to get worked up.
 
A lot of people say things are in XF's favor (at least, from all the posts I've read here). Is there any single item that can 'seriously' go against XF?
 
Lucas said:
Forgot to add 'could', sorry. I was giving the point of view of a regular member, no need to get worked up.
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Fair enough, my apologies. If it serves any explanation, I am exasperated by far fetched excuses some people broach. I reacted according to that. Again: shouldn't have lost my composure there.

TheBigK said:
A lot of people say things are in XF's favor (at least, from all the posts I've read here). Is there any single item that can 'seriously' go against XF?
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I am not a lawyer and as most everyone else here, lack crucial information to make an educated guess, I can thus not say whether XF faces legal disaster or not. It doesn't look like it, but it doesn't seem to be an open and shut case either.

In any case, what doesn't play out in XF's favor is the lack of communication. There aren't many signs they even seek to remedy the current goings. Which again is their decision to make, I do however believe it's amongst the worst things they can do. As it doesn't instil confidence in both the business' and core products' development.
 
To date... IB have provided no proof to the court to substantiate their claims against XF. They may have claims against individuals for any breech of contract, if exists and proven, however; even as directors of Xenforo, individuality has nothing to do with the company itself. A company is its own identity, thus is separate from any liability against an individual. There has been nothing really published in the individual regards to my knowledge.

There are plenty of lawyers who have looked over this and weighed in, of which none can find fault by XF based on IB's so far supposed evidence, which is to date, he said, she said.

What a jury does however, has nothing to do with evidence. It is the best ******** artists wins... who can mouth the best to sway the jury to like their argument over the other side. Completely ridiculous IMHO, though that is American law.
 
Caliburn said:
I just don't understand why Kier has not officially said whats going on with XenForo and why there has been a lack of updates... :(
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You can probably thank IB for that. I'm sure they're working hard, paying bills and are trying to still have a life after the work is done.
 
Kier has made basic statements in the announcements, however; most of it is already in here, documented from court files. What is there to really say at this point, when the entire thing is he said, she said. IB say x, XF deny. The documents already state this... IB have shown zero evidence to substantiate their claims. XF have nothing to really defend evidence wise until such evidence exists.

http://xenforo.com/community/threads/a-statement-regarding-the-current-litigation.7567/

Nothing has actually changed since then, except IB delaying, then demanding some nonsense, delaying some more... sacking lots of staff and calling all them to court, etc etc. Nothing has really changed at this point. I believe IB still have the claims active that they own PHP, MySQL, SEO, HTML, etc... which were claims they made were infringed.

If that doesn't scream ridiculous to you by now, I don't know what will.
 
@Anthony : This thread is about the law suit filed in California. What's the status of the law suit filed in London?
 
TheBigK said:
A lot of people say things are in XF's favor (at least, from all the posts I've read here). Is there any single item that can 'seriously' go against XF?
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Forgive me if this is repetition, but it seems that there are multiple parts to the case:

1. copying of code - obviously this one is unlikely to fly

2. Trade secrets, inside knowledge, etc - I don't think any of us know exactly what was in the contracts and/or any other document and understandings.....so this part is always up in the air.

"Justice" is often quite random and depends on the judges outlook on things. You can see with these Android and other cases....that there is no perfect way of interpreting all of this jazz.

Most every judge and jury are predisposed in some way...that is, they have prior understanding, experience and/or lack of such. IMHO, anything can happen.

That all said, I have claimed from the beginning that even if XF is "guilty" of the muddy stuff like "knowing the road map of IB" , the penalty would likely not be severe.

Total guesses, of course......
 
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