Brexit
- Thread starter vbresults
- Start date
Apart from the City and Scotland, there has been much hate for the EU across the UK for generations. Politicians have chastised the EU for problems in the UK day in day out for years and years and years, then 4 months before the vote, "well actually the EU ain't that bad".
Don't get me wrong there has been a lot of misleading and false information on both sides of the debate, but you only have to look at the last general election to see that has we had a proportional representation system in the UK, we would have over 80 seats for UKIP with ~4 million votes (I don't have exact numbers to hand). That was a very large indicator of the feeling.
Don't get me wrong there has been a lot of misleading and false information on both sides of the debate, but you only have to look at the last general election to see that has we had a proportional representation system in the UK, we would have over 80 seats for UKIP with ~4 million votes (I don't have exact numbers to hand). That was a very large indicator of the feeling.
I was going to post something similar earlier but given the history of political threads on this forum I decided against it.
I'm with Slavik, there was so much contradictory information that a whole lot of the population were essentially confused into voting (~80% turnout isn't bad). Farage spouting his £350m figure then this morning announcing that the £350m might not go to the NHS (duh!) which was the basis of his campaign.
I knew Cameron would step down, can't have a remain campaigner pushing the country in an independent direction it makes no sense. It would not surprise me if a vote of no confidence goes against the Tories and forces an emergency election but we'll see!
Looking at reactions online it appears France are gunning for a referendum and I've noticed Tusk is determined to get the heads around a table and prevent a domino effect.
I'm not sure Germany would leave, they're furious as the major contributor to the EU they'll be most likely to plug the hole we're leaving. Perhaps that will push for an exit but if Germany leave then the EU would definitely crumble.
I'm with Slavik, there was so much contradictory information that a whole lot of the population were essentially confused into voting (~80% turnout isn't bad). Farage spouting his £350m figure then this morning announcing that the £350m might not go to the NHS (duh!) which was the basis of his campaign.
I knew Cameron would step down, can't have a remain campaigner pushing the country in an independent direction it makes no sense. It would not surprise me if a vote of no confidence goes against the Tories and forces an emergency election but we'll see!
Looking at reactions online it appears France are gunning for a referendum and I've noticed Tusk is determined to get the heads around a table and prevent a domino effect.
I'm not sure Germany would leave, they're furious as the major contributor to the EU they'll be most likely to plug the hole we're leaving. Perhaps that will push for an exit but if Germany leave then the EU would definitely crumble.
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I think as long as people keep out personal opinion / promoting it should be fine.
Very punny.
vbresults
Well-known member
That's why the outcome is so unexpected (for me at least), was expecting something more like the Grexit dance, but it actually got to this stage..!
Feels like anything can happen now...
teletubbi
Well-known member
Not with the government we have at the moment.
Snog
Well-known member
Forgive me, being from the US and having only a limited knowledge of the EU, how could there be hate for the EU for generations when from what I understand it's only existed since the 1950's (if you can call it existing then) and the UK didn't join until the 1970's?
Please expand on that in an informative manner. I honestly don't know the answer to what I'm asking.
Snog
Well-known member
Well, Gold has gone up by a huge amount ($70 US/ounce at the moment I checked). That is usually an indicator that the stock markets and/or currency exchange rates are expected to drop.
It's a very large and complex question, and one which nobody can answer in its entirety. My take however is as follows:
In 1975 when the UK voted to remain in the EEC, a lot of voters said they voted to be part of the customs union, not a political one, there is a bit of conjecture here that people knew it was going to be a political union as its ultimate aim, and some not, however told or not, the feeling is that what the people voted for then is not what we have now.
Over time, as the EU has grown in size and power, there has been growing discontent that the EU's policies and bureaucracy has had negative effects on large numbers of communities, and the real money and benefits are all in the city, and the lack of any palpable change or reform for those hard hit communities outside it.
I think that basically people feel the EU was mid-sold to them in 1975, and we don't want to be where it is going in the next 40 years. The EU knew the referendum was coming, and David Cameron was basically kicked to the curb with the "reforms" he secured, if under those circumstances he could get basically nothing, how could we hope for any real reform in the years to come?
Bionic Rooster
Well-known member
I believe your question was regarding the definition of or time frame of a generation. Views are as varying as political opinions.
One belief is a generation is the collective of those born in a given year. Another is a generation is the collective of those born in a 20 year cycle.
If we go with the first, from 1970 to now 2016 there would have been 46 generations of hate for the EU. With the later there would have been 4 generations of hate for the EU. So the statement there was generations of hate for the EU would hold true in either case.
And this is how there could be hate for the EU for generations.
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sbj
Well-known member
In my opinion exitting from EU will not make Britain or any other EU country in the long term financially better.
If one wants to leave, leave, your decision and I am not taking away that.
I think most of the people who wants to leave think that the grass is greener on the other side. The reality will hit them sooner or later, that this is not the case.
My problem is, that once again they used fear to manipulate people. I mean 40 years ago one feared the communists. So one build an enemy in the minds of people, made propaganda, made them fear and they got manipulated to the favor of some politics.
Now the fear is Islam and foreigners who take their jobs (thats how Nazi Germany argued once about the Jews). This is very dangerous view in the EU, specially in UK, France, NL, Belgium, and Germany.
Trying to blame always the minorities.
I think the EU is good for every EU country, cause it forces that in every country the standards are more or less the same, which makes the living in those countries better. Good luck, wish you the best UK.
If one wants to leave, leave, your decision and I am not taking away that.
I think most of the people who wants to leave think that the grass is greener on the other side. The reality will hit them sooner or later, that this is not the case.
My problem is, that once again they used fear to manipulate people. I mean 40 years ago one feared the communists. So one build an enemy in the minds of people, made propaganda, made them fear and they got manipulated to the favor of some politics.
Now the fear is Islam and foreigners who take their jobs (thats how Nazi Germany argued once about the Jews). This is very dangerous view in the EU, specially in UK, France, NL, Belgium, and Germany.
Trying to blame always the minorities.
I think the EU is good for every EU country, cause it forces that in every country the standards are more or less the same, which makes the living in those countries better. Good luck, wish you the best UK.
Thomas.B
Well-known member
I've just seen the result of survey they did today in Germany:
Do you think the EU membership has more...
So Germany would very likely be one of the last ones who would leave the EU.
Do you think the EU membership has more...
Benefits (45%)
Benefits and drawbacks (38%)
Drawbacks (14%)
Btw, this has been the best pro-EU result so far.Benefits and drawbacks (38%)
Drawbacks (14%)
So Germany would very likely be one of the last ones who would leave the EU.
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
Very unlikely.
The numbers and momentum aren't there.
He'd need Bernie Sanders as his running mate or something of that magnitude.
And in the end, women or swing voters aren't going to vote for him.
I dont see the Republicans in the White House ever again unless they change some policies to include more potential voters.
Talk of "Putting up Trump Walls" won't increase the Republican base.
FredC
Well-known member
under estimating the guy is how 17 other GOP conservatives got decimated in the primaries. And frankly if the UK can pass a measure to leave the EU.. The US can elect Trump.. These are not your grandfather's politics.. Times are a changin...
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
Primaries aren't elections
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