August Update discussion thread.

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ManagerJosh said:
Not to discount the lawsuit you're facing in anyway Mert, I think one factor that differs is who Kier, Mike, Ashley and yourself is time. It is my understanding they have not only faced one civil suit against them, but two civil suits from two different parts of the world for close to two years (October 4 will be the second anniversary of this wonderful announcement).

Two years of civil litigation from two different lawsuits takes its toll.
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Lol, Way to go.. Should have just said "wish you well Mert"
 
AlexT said:
Josh, thanks, I am aware of the UK action. What I am not aware of is the "new case" that is supposedly taking place in January, 2013.
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The January 15, 2013 is for the actual trial for the US Case, preceeded by a pre-trial conference on December 3, 2012 :)

All the details of the US Case can be found here: http://shamil.co.uk/vbulletin-solutions-vs-xenforo-limited-etc/

The court order setting the trial date and pre-trial conference can be found here: http://shamil.co.uk/pdf/vbsi-xfl/123.pdf
 
To me the administrators really are working hard on xenForo... By devoting their energies to fighting the greatest threat to its future: the Internet Brands lawsuit against it. With that out of the way, they can focus more on advancing the actual software instead of protecting the very existence of the company (more important for the time being in my view). If they did not believe as much in the future of xenForo, they should give up the fight, or stop throwing everything at the lawsuit and add focus on updates.

Of course, as a small forum owner, I cannot comprehend the gravity of the concerns of big forum owners, though I do not mean to trivialize their concerns, which are certainly steeped in honest motives even when they are frantically or angrily shared. In other words, I understand the frustration. I am sure the administrators understand the frustration, too; I take it they understand that the intentionally vague "updates" will do little to placate the overall frustration of the community, though they may intend simply to help slow down its spread and intensity as they work toward the finish line on the lawsuit.

When all this is over and if xenForo prevails, people will certainly still be mad with the administrators and hesitant over remaining with, returning or making the jump to, the software, but I believe they think the lawsuit out of the way will get the greatest hurdling block out of their way so that the healing process can begin, and with it the quick growth in community and development that the company and software started with.

Edit:

As I have watched this lawsuit unfold, it has become more plausible a theory to me that Internet Brands does not care what the outcome is. The point is simply this: To stall development, stir discontent, and do as much as possible to undermine xenForo. Whether the effects are permanent or not does not matter, either.

As many here are aware, Internet Brands is developing vBulletin 5 as we speak. The lawsuit allows them to play catch up in development while another potentially great rival stalls. Even with the "worst" case scenario for corporate giant Internet Brands, mere pocket change is lost in the lawsuit (including paying for xenForo fees) in exchange for the effects mentioned above. As they watch the xenForo community turn on the administrators, much of the undermining work is done for them.

Again, the frustrations of the community are understandable, which makes the situation all the more unfortunate, and Internet Brands might really be that cynical in anticipating its eruption as a factor in their favor. It is a win-win.
 
Hyperion said:
To me the administrators really are working hard on xenForo... By devoting their energies to fighting the greatest threat to its future: the Internet Brands lawsuit against it. With that out of the way, they can focus more on advancing the actual software instead of protecting the very existence of the company (more important for the time being in my view). If they did not believe as much in the future of xenForo, they should give up the fight, or stop throwing everything at the lawsuit and add focus on updates.

Of course, as a small forum owner, I cannot comprehend the gravity of the concerns of big forum owners, though I do not mean to trivialize their concerns, which are certainly steeped in honest motives even when they are frantically or angrily shared. In other words, I understand the frustration. I am sure the administrators understand the frustration, too; I take it they understand that the intentionally vague "updates" will do little to placate the overall frustration of the community, though they may intend simply to help slow down its spread and intensity as they work toward the finish line on the lawsuit.

When all this is over and if xenForo prevails, people will certainly still be mad with the administrators and hesitant over remaining with, returning or making the jump to, the software, but I believe they think the lawsuit out of the way will get the greatest hurdling block out of their way so that the healing process can begin, and with it the quick growth in community and development that the company and software started with.

Edit:

As I have watched this lawsuit unfold, it has become more plausible a theory to me that Internet Brands does not care what the outcome is. The point is simply this: To stall development, stir discontent, and do as much as possible to undermine xenForo. Whether the effects are permanent or not does not matter, either.

As many here are aware, Internet Brands is developing vBulletin 5 as we speak. The lawsuit allows them to play catch up in development while another potentially great rival stalls. Even with the "worst" case scenario for corporate giant Internet Brands, mere pocket change is lost in the lawsuit (including paying for xenForo fees) in exchange for the effects mentioned above. As they watch the xenForo community turn on the administrators, much of the undermining work is done for them.

Again, the frustrations of the community are understandable, which makes the situation all the more unfortunate, and Internet Brands might really be that cynical in anticipating its eruption as a factor in their favor. It is a win-win.
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I totally agree with you, but still people don't understand why Internet Brands is getting customers back, vbAdvanced owner cant make his mind up however moved back to VB cause of this. xenForo is loosing it's customers they are gaining and they don't give a crap about the customers. xenForo are trying to prioritize things. Get the lawsuit of their back, or develop the product. If it wasn't for Mike, Ashley and Kier there wouldn't be a VBulletin.
 
MichaelDance said:
I totally agree with you, but still people don't understand why Internet Brands is getting customers back, vbAdvanced owner cant make his mind up however moved back to VB cause of this. xenForo is loosing it's customers they are gaining and they don't give a crap about the customers. xenForo are trying to prioritize things. Get the lawsuit of their back, or develop the product. If it wasn't for Mike, Ashley and Kier there wouldn't be a VBulletin.
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Inevitably, much of the conversation outside of the lawsuit still turns back to a basic vB vs. XF comparison.

What kills me is the fact that vB promised a great product through a "pre-sale" and the fabled "Fabian's List" of features that vB has now completely repudiated as being in any version of their promised product. It has been three years since that money grab, and (oddly to me) many folks have forgiven this just because of the passage of time and the announcement of vB5. Part of my confusion comes from the fact that vB gets a pass from many folks because they promise great things in the future (while being completely opaque and non-committal about pricing, features, and future support of 4.x series....and they basically say that anything stated before about the product should be ignored).

Another point about the comparison between products that kills me is that people here seem to be upset about the "developers" or the "company" making statements, and pointing to the communication from vB. This baffles me completely, as the lead developers "over there" (ostensibly Kevin Sours or some other unknown person...Edwin Brown for CMS?) rarely post, but a ton of other folks do, with sometimes conflicting info (Paul M, CvP, Wayne Luke, Lawrence Cole, et. al,), but none of these folks are the "company" (when was the last time Bob Briscoe or Joe Rosenblum posted anything of substance or that can be relied on...I think it has been years, if I am not wrong). People get wound up here about the lack of posting by KAM...but the analogous situation from vB is the same or worse....again, I might be wrong, but the last post I can find from Joe Rosenblum on vB.com is from Nov. 2011. It just confuses the heck out of me that if you match up the staffing structure and posting, posts by Jake, Slavik, and Lawrence, don't seem to settle people the same way that posts from Wayne Luke, Paul M, CvP, BirdofPrey5 (sorry if I forgot their names or got them wrong), do. vB fans seem to accept posts from staff their as gospel and proof that all is right in the world, while deprecating posts from staff here with equal or greater authority of knowledge (I can't count the number of vB posts from these folks mentioned that conflict, say contradictory things, or put things of as, "we will know when we know."). I am just stumped by the fact that a much faster response rate here with more or equal authority seems to be denigrated by some...when for example, the lead developer for vB, Kevin Sours, by my search on their site shows a post from July 2012, and the next previous post being from Oct 2011). I think people get confused by there being a lot of staff at vB and less here at XF. But as far as substantive posts that you can count on? I think (my opinion, you can refute it with facts if you like...but as I have said before, my opinion is mine), XF beats the crap out of the competition (lawsuit, doom and gloom drama included) in terms of responsiveness and actual contact from developers. And more importantly, I believe the statements made here more than the statements made there by an exponential factor.

"Nuff said."
 
jadmperry said:
Inevitably, much of the conversation outside of the lawsuit still turns back to a basic vB vs. XF comparison.

What kills me is the fact that vB promised a great product through a "pre-sale" and the fabled "Fabian's List" of features that vB has now completely repudiated as being in any version of their promised product. It has been three years since that money grab, and (oddly to me) many folks have forgiven this just because of the passage of time and the announcement of vB5. Part of my confusion comes from the fact that vB gets a pass from many folks because they promise great things in the future (while being completely opaque and non-committal about pricing, features, and future support of 4.x series....and they basically say that anything stated before about the product should be ignored).

Another point about the comparison between products that kills me is that people here seem to be upset about the "developers" or the "company" making statements, and pointing to the communication from vB. This baffles me completely, as the lead developers "over there" (ostensibly Kevin Sours or some other unknown person...Edwin Brown for CMS?) rarely post, but a ton of other folks do, with sometimes conflicting info (Paul M, CvP, Wayne Luke, Lawrence Cole, et. al,), but none of these folks are the "company" (when was the last time Bob Briscoe or Joe Rosenblum posted anything of substance or that can be relied on...I think it has been years, if I am not wrong). People get wound up here about the lack of posting by KAM...but the analogous situation from vB is the same or worse....again, I might be wrong, but the last post I can find from Joe Rosenblum on vB.com is from Nov. 2011. It just confuses the heck out of me that if you match up the staffing structure and posting, posts by Jake, Slavik, and Lawrence, don't seem to settle people the same way that posts from Wayne Luke, Paul M, CvP, BirdofPrey5 (sorry if I forgot their names or got them wrong), do. vB fans seem to accept posts from staff their as gospel and proof that all is right in the world, while deprecating posts from staff here with equal or greater authority of knowledge (I can't count the number of vB posts from these folks mentioned that conflict, say contradictory things, or put things of as, "we will know when we know."). I am just stumped by the fact that a much faster response rate here with more or equal authority seems to be denigrated by some...when for example, the lead developer for vB, Kevin Sours, by my search on their site shows a post from July 2012, and the next previous post being from Oct 2011). I think people get confused by there being a lot of staff at vB and less here at XF. But as far as substantive posts that you can count on? I think (my opinion, you can refute it with facts if you like...but as I have said before, my opinion is mine), XF beats the crap out of the competition (lawsuit, doom and gloom drama included) in terms of responsiveness and actual contact from developers. And more importantly, I believe the statement made here more than the statement made there by an exponential factor.

"Nuff said."
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Again I totally agree with you but If people look back.

What's everyone's favourite version of VBulletin? 3.8.x?

Who was the main developers behind VB3.8.x? Kier and Mike... who Joined the VB Dev Team at VB2.0

Who was the VB Business Manager during vb2 & vb3? Ashley

Which version was the best? VB3.x.x so VB has lost the best developers and who have gained them? Us at xenForo.
 
MichaelDance said:
Again I totally agree with you but If people look back.

What's everyone's favourite version of VBulletin? 3.8.x?

Who was the main developers behind VB3.8.x? Kier and Mike... who Joined the VB Dev Team at VB2.0

Who was the VB Business Manager during vb2 & vb3? Ashley

Which version was the best? VB3.x.x so VB has lost the best developers and who have gained them? Us at xenForo.
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What you said. +1 trillion.
 
Oh, yeah, another point...based on my previous post and the research I did about the lack of posting from the developers of vB, I am officially declaring it an "orphan" product. Especially since the CMS lead developer, Edwin Brown last posted in the vb.com site in October of 2011. Make your business decisions accordingly.
 
@jadmperry, one difference about all those names you listed at vB as opposed to here, they are paid employees of the company and as such logic would dictate they would have more official knowledge of the processes/company and can speak for them in an official capacity.

On a side note, vB5's release will be a watershed moment for IB. I, personally, cannot wait to watch it all unfold. ;) :D
 
This is off-topic; but the latest vB5 screenshots are totally unattractive. I'm going to have a hard time in 2013 if XF devs abandon the project. I just hope that they sort out personal problems (life's too short to continue with personal problems) and stick to XenForo. Once the lawsuit is over; they'll get all the money back and then they can hire a dev or two to help with the backlog. I'm happy with XF (current version) till then. I'm going to miss the mobile style though.
 
AlexT said:
Make my business decisions according to your personal observations? Certainly not. At least, elsewhere development is still very tangible.
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No....make your decisions according to your own observations.

That said, I will make my own observation that elsewhere, "very tangible" development consists of screenshots of a product that was previously described as "mock-ups" and is unable to be confirmed to exist independently according to their own Non Disclosure Agreement by anyone, and if you are relying on statements from this same company, than I would hold hold my breath until "Fabian's Fabled List" features are produced or Kevin Sours or Edwin Brown posts again. If you survive the breath holding. bully for you!!
 
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