Any sort of roadmap for Xenforo 2.3 ?

FTL

Well-known member
@TheGroove @Mendalla You both make good points. Given how slow the pace of development is today, I think adding the odd feature here and there to speed up development a bit would be beneficial. The software then wouldn't stand still for so long. Heck, even if it was just a handful of bug fixes that would be something.
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
I think XF can take a page out of the Apple playbook here, make incremental changes, choose a couple from the features request area and give it a major version and bill it as the latest and greatest thing since sliced bread. Make people feel like last year's version is for chumps and put a bunch of effort into marketing.

Works for the iPhone and Mac.

Using XF1.2 to XF1.3 as a comparison, XF1.3 was small and lacked much impact due to lacking features, and mostly being quality of life (I think RM1.1 was the main focus at the time). I do not remember if it bled through here much, I remember there being a lot of dissatisfaction and disappointment.

There was only a ~6-8-month period between XF1.2 and XF1.3, which would likely be what incremental updates would look like.

This was XF1.2: https://xenforo.com/community/forums/have-you-seen/?prefix_id=30
This was XF1.3: https://xenforo.com/community/forums/have-you-seen/?prefix_id=34

Apple is not the best comparison as their announcements come with a ton of other hardware, and the user base is (stupidly) fanatical.

Incremental updates will just delay the inevitable complaints about big feature updates. Then again, people are never happy and always find a reason to complain about every update regardless of whether it is big or not or delivered faster than current updates.
 

Wing

Active member
Using XF1.2 to XF1.3 as a comparison, XF1.3 was small and lacked much impact due to lacking features, and mostly being quality of life (I think RM1.1 was the main focus at the time). I do not remember if it bled through here much, I remember there being a lot of dissatisfaction and disappointment.

There was only a ~6-8-month period between XF1.2 and XF1.3, which would likely be what incremental updates would look like.

This was XF1.2: https://xenforo.com/community/forums/have-you-seen/?prefix_id=30
This was XF1.3: https://xenforo.com/community/forums/have-you-seen/?prefix_id=34

Apple is not the best comparison as their announcements come with a ton of other hardware, and the user base is (stupidly) fanatical.

Incremental updates will just delay the inevitable complaints about big feature updates. Then again, people are never happy and always find a reason to complain about every update regardless of whether it is big or not or delivered faster than current updates.

Do you think some sort of development newsletter would atleast be beneficial?
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
Do you think some sort of development newsletter would atleast be beneficial?
I would rather the developers just work on the update and not have to deal with the same conversation by the same people every time they feel that Mommy and Daddy haven't paid attention to them.

People know why things have been delayed (that or they have less brain cells than I gave them credit for), and that an update is coming soon. Whether it is this month or next month, it doesn't necessarily mean anything as it only means that you know what is coming. It is rare that anyone with a successful forum is going to update any time soon as you wait until the release is stable, and all dependent add-on and themes are stable before updating which can take several weeks to several months.

Even if HYS are shown tomorrow, we likely will not see 2.3 until December at the earliest.
 

AndrewSimm

Well-known member
I would rather the developers just work on the update and not have to deal with the same conversation by the same people every time they feel that Mommy and Daddy haven't paid attention to them.

People know why things have been delayed (that or they have less brain cells than I gave them credit for), and that an update is coming soon. Whether it is this month or next month, it doesn't necessarily mean anything as it only means that you know what is coming. It is rare that anyone with a successful forum is going to update any time soon as you wait until the release is stable, and all dependent add-on and themes are stable before updating which can take several weeks to several months.

Even if HYS are shown tomorrow, we likely will not see 2.3 until December at the earliest.
I have always taken you as a reasonable poster but I disagree with your reasoning. Making fun of users that pay an annual fee for asking about updates is kind of petty. Sure, there are limitations to request for information but why is it wrong to expect a reasonable understanding of what you will get when you pay forward for a product.

Consumers should expect those delivering goods or services to have a certain level of standard. When you purchase a service you should have an understanding of what that service will look like. This doesn't mean some type of written guarantee but just a reasonable expectation of the type of service you expect to receive.

When one obtains a Xenforo license they should expect security issues to be addressed and they are. One should expect the code to work on supported technology standards such as PHP and it does. One should expect support when requested and that is also provided.

Where I believe Xenforo falls short is the value associated with annual renewals. Users expect this to include additions to the product and that has not been the case in several years. Two years ago Xenforo expanded their staff but somehow this has led to a decrease in major release frequency.

So who is at fault here? The consumer, because they accepted it. Every single post that questions the direction of the product is attacked (seems odd consider the product is forum software). It's one thing to ask a company to release a roadmap but at this point a general update on expectations will do.

What can a Xenforo license holder expect over the next few years? Can we expect major updates to occur every 10 to 14 months? Is the core leadership of Xenforo (Mike, Kier, and Chris) still developing full time or has this past on to newer staff members? Without being specific, why has version 2.3 been delayed or is it even a thing?
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
I have always taken you as a reasonable poster but I disagree with your reasoning. Making fun of users that pay an annual fee for asking about updates is kind of petty. Sure, there are limitations to request for information but why is it wrong to expect a reasonable understanding of what you will get when you pay forward for a product.

Consumers should expect those delivering goods or services to have a certain level of standard. When you purchase a service you should have an understanding of what that service will look like. This doesn't mean some type of written guarantee but just a reasonable expectation of the type of service you expect to receive.

When one obtains a Xenforo license they should expect security issues to be addressed and they are. One should expect the code to work on supported technology standards such as PHP and it does. One should expect support when requested and that is also provided.

Where I believe Xenforo falls short is the value associated with annual renewals. Users expect this to include additions to the product and that has not been the case in several years. Two years ago Xenforo expanded their staff but somehow this has led to a decrease in major release frequency.

So who is at fault here? The consumer, because they accepted it. Every single post that questions the direction of the product is attacked (seems odd consider the product is forum software). It's one thing to ask a company to release a roadmap but at this point a general update on expectations will do.

What can a Xenforo license holder expect over the next few years? Can we expect major updates to occur every 10 to 14 months? Is the core leadership of Xenforo (Mike, Kier, and Chris) still developing full time or has this past on to newer staff members? Without being specific, why has version 2.3 been delayed or is it even a thing?
My post was more about the people who incessantly need validation about every step of development and bring up these same points every time there is a little silence or a delay. They are literally arguing to argue at times for no reason other than they do not get what they want. I could have been a bit more specific about who I meant in the last post but 🤷‍♂️.

The delays are likely caused by XF Cloud; it is something that has been in the works and is something that would take a lot of planning and development investment to get right. It is also the single biggest investment XenForo could make for growth and sustainability. It would be nice for them to announce that delays happened because of it, or that they are now catching up and giving a new ETA but demanding it and trying to lead a coup is just throwing a tantrum.

I even said earlier if people do not want to renew then do not renew. I do not renew until I have a reason to normally or if it falls within my normal maintenance cycle, so foregoing renewal immediately is nothing new. Hell, I went without renewal from XF1.5 until XF2.2 because I had no reason to renew.

I do not think most of these issues are solved by a roadmap, because it is rare that a roadmap is completely followed. I also do not think a development newsletter would change much because developing a whole platform takes time and is more than just the addition of one or more features. I do believe there should be more transparency (especially with resource providers and is something that we begged for in 2011-2012), but these threads aren't the way to get it.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, for my own projects I have the opposite stance that XenForo has, but I am not in a competitive market where (if I remember correctly ideas were poached by a supposed friend at one point). If I am asked about updates or development, I will give teasers or supply details, if I cannot I'll explain the reasons for delays. I am not beholden to license holders, and I also do not answer to anyone however, and my customers rarely ever treat me the way that I've seen people act here (most of them are also scared of me so there is that).
 
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Ivancas

Active member
The delays are likely caused by XF Cloud
Which no one asked for.

Instead, there are dozens of pretty good suggestions which have been voted but we have no idea if the devs care anything about them.
Pretty good ones like:

Here is a quote which resumes what several users think (including me)
I wonder why devs are so resistant to answer considering we're trying to actually add development efforts to their ecosystem. Just a few replies from them or a bit more docs could help us pull this off... But silents across all related threads from them; not encouraging.
 

AndrewSimm

Well-known member
Which no one asked for.

Instead, there are dozens of pretty good suggestions which have been voted but we have no idea if the devs care anything about them.
Pretty good ones like:

Here is a quote which resumes what several users think (including me)
I think some of the older popular suggestions just need to be addressed. Suggestions with a lack of interests or mark. Why not mark suggestions were the dev's have no interest? For example, I expect they don't believe the future of web is with native apps. I kind of agree with that notion but why just not say it? I know they can't address every request but some like Wordpress Bridge and SSO probably needing a comment.
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
Which no one asked for.

Instead, there are dozens of pretty good suggestions which have been voted but we have no idea if the devs care anything about them.
Pretty good ones like:

Here is a quote which resumes what several users think (including me)
You didn't ask for it, but it is a necessary step for a software platform to add sustainability. Yearly renewals do not provide as much value to a company as a monthly revenue stream.
  • SSO is a difficult convoluted mess, but is more likely now that they offer cloud.
  • AMP relevance is hit or miss currently, so whether adoption of it is a core feature matters or not is up in the air.
  • WebP is coming with 2.3 last I heard.
  • Apple is adopting standards they rejected for a while which makes progressive apps better options than native apps. Many companies ae foregoing maintaining their native app while opting for progressive apps now 🤷‍♂️, and not just in forums.
 

AndrewSimm

Well-known member
You didn't ask for it, but it is a necessary step for a software platform to add sustainability. Yearly renewals do not provide as much value to a company as a monthly revenue stream.
  • SSO is a difficult convoluted mess, but is more likely now that they offer cloud.
  • AMP relevance is hit or miss currently, so whether adoption of it is a core feature matters or not is up in the air.
  • WebP is coming with 2.3 last I heard.
  • Apple is adopting standards they rejected for a while which makes progressive apps better options than native apps. Many companies ae foregoing maintaining their native app while opting for progressive apps now 🤷‍♂️, and not just in forums.
These are fair points and ones I generally agree with. I just wish the Xenforo team would say it.
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
These are fair points and ones I generally agree with. I just wish the Xenforo team would say it.
More communication would be great, but I also remember during the period XF was involved with litigation and a few different periods of time after where when people did not receive the answers they wanted they would just throw tantrums.

I'd kill to know if we'll ever get template modifications on a per-style basis, as I would love to do styles again... I just cannot invest the time into it when I know every update takes a substantial chunk of time when you do more than basic template mods or CSS changes.
 

AndrewSimm

Well-known member
More communication would be great, but I also remember during the period XF was involved with litigation and a few different periods of time after where when people did not receive the answers they wanted they would just throw tantrums.

I'd kill to know if we'll ever get template modifications on a per-style basis, as I would love to do styles again... I just cannot invest the time into it when I know every update takes a substantial chunk of time when you do more than basic template mods or CSS changes.
I think it really comes down to a reasonable expectation. It isn't reasonable for XF constantly address development but periodic updates does seem reasonable.
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
I think it really comes down to a reasonable expectation. It isn't reasonable for XF constantly address development but periodic updates does seem reasonable.
I don't disagree, but it comes down to what is reasonable then? Is it a quarterly update, or biannual update? Is it just a general state of the company or state of the community, or does it need to be a teaser of coming features?

I don't find it unreasonable to wait until XF has locked down what exactly will be in the coming update, and also gotten far enough along to start providing teasers. I do find it reasonable that if they have hit a significant delay that they say they've hit a delay, but would that be good enough without details for all users? Perhaps as the XF team grows it'll be able to take more of an approach like IPB (though I hope it doesn't have as much fluff announcements).
 

AndrewSimm

Well-known member
I don't disagree, but it comes down to what is reasonable then? Is it a quarterly update, or biannual update? Is it just a general state of the company or state of the community, or does it need to be a teaser of coming features?

I don't find it unreasonable to wait until XF has locked down what exactly will be in the coming update, and also gotten far enough along to start providing teasers. I do find it reasonable that if they have hit a significant delay that they say they've hit a delay, but would that be good enough without details for all users? Perhaps as the XF team grows it'll be able to take more of an approach like IPB (though I hope it doesn't have as much fluff announcements).
We could dance all night with this but reasonable would be the general consensus of a large group of people. This of course is if you believe most people are reasonable.

In my opinion (and I get that there are other opinions) Xenforo should release a major update at least once every 12 months. When users renew they should expect at least one additional feature update covered. Any paid service should come with expectations and right now you can only expect bug fixes. Heck, did I miss the update to the cookie consent that was apparently important and coming?

I also believe it is reasonable for XF to address major suggestions that have been at the top of the suggestion board for years. If you don't think SSO, AMP, WP Bridge, and other highly recommended features are good for core Xenforo then say it so everyone can move on.

I also think it is reasonable to give developers a heads up when you plan on developing a competing feature. TH not getting a heads up on reactions was wrong. XF could have offered to share this information under a NDA.
 

Iggy

Well-known member
I don't disagree, but it comes down to what is reasonable then? Is it a quarterly update, or biannual update? Is it just a general state of the company or state of the community, or does it need to be a teaser of coming features?

I don't find it unreasonable to wait until XF has locked down what exactly will be in the coming update, and also gotten far enough along to start providing teasers. I do find it reasonable that if they have hit a significant delay that they say they've hit a delay, but would that be good enough without details for all users? Perhaps as the XF team grows it'll be able to take more of an approach like IPB (though I hope it doesn't have as much fluff announcements).


well i can tell you in my personal relations.....its a common sense......like when you say you will do something.......you either:

1. do the thing
2. explain the new situation

or else thats a weakness...
 
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Nicolas FR

Well-known member
To be very honest my impatience is fueled by the fact that my forum is not a success.
I don't have 300 active members per hour, 1000 messages and 10 new members per day... If that was the case I believe my mind would be occupied with something other than knowing if the next update comes out in 1 week, 1 month or 3 months.

So I'm like a geek waiting for the release of the new gadget... As if it will change my community... But no, nothing will change, I'll be excited for a few weeks playing in the ACP but my forum will always be so moribund... To be honest, I'm between the excitement of seeing the new features and the idea of closing my community for good.

But as I am French, and therefore a specialist in bad humor and discontent, I will continue to complain about the silence of the developers !
 
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Iggy

Well-known member
i keep waiting to hear about when xenforo will be easier to use than social medias that have been killing many of us for years......simple things like easily organizing and cross publishing content which is amazing to me is considered niche.....i mean even whatsapp makes us look stupid...but hey maybe this next version right.....
 
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