Peggy
in memoriam 2016
heheh it's called "off topic". The drama does, however, have a way of filtering out to the rest of the forums.
XenForo needs a blog with regular updates from Kier & Mike
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Peggy
in memoriam 2016
I'm truly sorry that you see our community in that light. That's one of the very reasons I stopped posting at that "other" place. You couldn't say anything in disagreement without being jumped on.
Sorry but it really did look like (to me), that you were criticizing me, and I tend to be a bit touchy these days (personal happenings).
psssttt.... sorry.
Tigratrus
Well-known member
Nick's not the only one that's "viewing with dismay" the pile-on mentality that seems to be growing.
We're all (well most of us) adults here, yes? Is there some reason people have to attack someone that says something that you don't agree with?
If you disagree with someone, or feel they are out of line, by all means say so, but there's no reason that it can't be said in a civil fashion. Seems like far too much ego is being thrown around recently.
One of my favorite ideas from Robert Heinlein is that lack of personal courtesy is a sign of a moribund society.
I love Xenforo as a product, as a company and as a community and I'd truly hate to see things here devolve into a situation where casual or new visitors don't feel like they can participate without fear of incurring the wrath of a vocal clique.
'K nuff said from me. I'm not talking to any individual in particular, so please don't leap up in defense, just making a general comment on my perception of recent discussions (not just this one).
We're all (well most of us) adults here, yes? Is there some reason people have to attack someone that says something that you don't agree with?
If you disagree with someone, or feel they are out of line, by all means say so, but there's no reason that it can't be said in a civil fashion. Seems like far too much ego is being thrown around recently.
One of my favorite ideas from Robert Heinlein is that lack of personal courtesy is a sign of a moribund society.
I love Xenforo as a product, as a company and as a community and I'd truly hate to see things here devolve into a situation where casual or new visitors don't feel like they can participate without fear of incurring the wrath of a vocal clique.
'K nuff said from me. I'm not talking to any individual in particular, so please don't leap up in defense, just making a general comment on my perception of recent discussions (not just this one).
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
It's not rocket science to know what XF's plans are in the future. Do you think IB is going to say ..... WHOA ... Xenforo is working on a Gallery ????? .... we need an integrated gallery tooo !
No.
The issue at hand is how Xenforo treats it's customers.
Customers expect basic plans, and this thread amongst many others illustrates this expectation.
I have faith Xenforo will deliver on these expectations.
Announcing basic plans won't stifle creativity.
It will inform customers what their software provider is doing and not doing.
Certainly this is to be avoided. I think this highlights something important: don't promise something that you can't keep.
I think this thread highlights that there are many Xenforo fans, including myself, that will make sure impatient people will be appropriately put in their place. Your concern is invalid if Xenforo can make realistic plans and deliver. I am positive they can, should and will.
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
Overall, it appears that K&M have concerns about making promises for fear people will hound them about every little promise they make.
This is a legitimate fear. But there are ways around it.
This highlights the need for making plans that can be delivered.
IMO, it is a mistake to not announce any plans. I believe this is the current strategy.
"Promise nothing, and people can't ***** about not delivering" "We never said we we'd do that !"
Customers want communication.
Especially out of a small company like Xenforo.
All companies are judged on making plans and seeing how they meet those plans.
K&M need to inform us of their plans.
Give realistic plans for everyone to see.
You can't avoid public scrutiny by not making any plans.
This thread demonstrates this reality.
This is a legitimate fear. But there are ways around it.
This highlights the need for making plans that can be delivered.
IMO, it is a mistake to not announce any plans. I believe this is the current strategy.
"Promise nothing, and people can't ***** about not delivering" "We never said we we'd do that !"
Customers want communication.
Especially out of a small company like Xenforo.
All companies are judged on making plans and seeing how they meet those plans.
K&M need to inform us of their plans.
Give realistic plans for everyone to see.
You can't avoid public scrutiny by not making any plans.
This thread demonstrates this reality.
Jose Amaral Mota
Active member
I feel like I am in the return isle in Walmart.... When you witness a customer just go off on some clerk and asking to speak to the manager, because they are not doing what you want them to do.... Then you ( the customer) find out it was your mistake and leave without apologizing for your outburst. I was happy with vbulletin 3.0 to 3.6, then a very few member(s) started hounding with thread after thread about wanting the DEVS to release something.... and they did.... Project Tools.
It has taken less then a year to see these threads popup every other week... If you need something added for your community, then do what some members have done already.... Hire a coder to fill what you see as gaps....
You want them to blog everything they might add....
"Hi gang, I got some Great News! for all of you... We've just added a new font family... Cheers XoXo"
[Next Day]
"Hello again, just bloggin again... Did not want to keep all you out of the loop.... So here is what we are up to today.... First we are going to have breakfast, then do some toe stretches and sip on some tea and watch a bit of the telly and maybe code something wonderful.... Well, once I have stop bloggin... No, I can not leave all you hanging, then lets see what I am doing now.....
Yeah get it.......
<-- Thread not members
It has taken less then a year to see these threads popup every other week... If you need something added for your community, then do what some members have done already.... Hire a coder to fill what you see as gaps....
You want them to blog everything they might add....
"Hi gang, I got some Great News! for all of you... We've just added a new font family... Cheers XoXo"
[Next Day]
"Hello again, just bloggin again... Did not want to keep all you out of the loop.... So here is what we are up to today.... First we are going to have breakfast, then do some toe stretches and sip on some tea and watch a bit of the telly and maybe code something wonderful.... Well, once I have stop bloggin... No, I can not leave all you hanging, then lets see what I am doing now.....
Yeah get it.......
<-- Thread not members
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
Obviously, if basic plans for Xenforo were known, more people could hire coders to fill in the gaps.
Currently, Xenforo has not shown any plans.
No one asked for everything. But as you pointed out, that wouldn't be helpful.
Most people here are asking for reasonable information and plans. Xenforo would be seen as supporting it's community by giving them access to basic plans.
Jose Amaral Mota
Active member
Have you ever seen vBulletin create any video tutes? I only see it from Floris at vBulletin. Seriously need to try do what they have done. You will then know how much time it takes to create even one thread in announcement and then try doing the video in one clean take.
If members see Kier responding to members posting, then you think ... 'Oh, wtf... you have time to post, but noting to what is going on with Xenforo'.
If members see Kier responding to members posting, then you think ... 'Oh, wtf... you have time to post, but noting to what is going on with Xenforo'.
Digital Doctor
Well-known member
Xenforo is great and I want it to do well.
I think communicating with your customers effectively is important.
Managing expectations by setting realistic plans and delivering on them is important.
Thinking you don't need to tell your customers anything isn't really acceptable.
I'm sure in good time Xenforo will do a better job than what's happened so far.
Let's just enjoy the great software that Xenforo is and wait until they have time to educate us about the future of Xenforo.
I think communicating with your customers effectively is important.
Managing expectations by setting realistic plans and delivering on them is important.
Thinking you don't need to tell your customers anything isn't really acceptable.
I'm sure in good time Xenforo will do a better job than what's happened so far.
Let's just enjoy the great software that Xenforo is and wait until they have time to educate us about the future of Xenforo.
CTXMedia
Well-known member
At the moment it's simply a matter of resources.
The XF team want to build the software. Move it forward. Quickly.
They have to make big strides to mature the product in record time, to keep the buzz going and grow the company quickly.
Too slow and the buzz fades and people look elsewhere.
So, for the moment, I feel they are doing a great job of satisfying customers by delivering fully working, virtually bug-free software to the marketplace - something the competition (due to the size and complexity of their products) finds difficult to do.
We need to allow XF to leverage that edge and then give us more detailed info as things settle down and a better (internal) structure for marketing and product planning can be put in place.
Cheers,
Shaun
The XF team want to build the software. Move it forward. Quickly.
They have to make big strides to mature the product in record time, to keep the buzz going and grow the company quickly.
Too slow and the buzz fades and people look elsewhere.
So, for the moment, I feel they are doing a great job of satisfying customers by delivering fully working, virtually bug-free software to the marketplace - something the competition (due to the size and complexity of their products) finds difficult to do.
We need to allow XF to leverage that edge and then give us more detailed info as things settle down and a better (internal) structure for marketing and product planning can be put in place.
Cheers,
Shaun
Steve10
Well-known member
It's clear here that what people want is not a roadmap (of course some people do but the majority don't), all they really want some sort of updates to tell us that Xenforo is still here, functioning and growing. To me the perfect solution would be to have either a new forum or a sub-forum in the Announcements forum with a weekly post, maybe highlighting a particularly good add-on or style, maybe showing a site that has done a particularly impressive thing with xenforo, maybe occasionally with some information on how the software is developing or how the lawsuit is taking it's toll. I understand there are only 3 people who actually take a salary from the company but I reckon a post a week between three of them wouldn't be too hard to do, especially if it's just highlighting an addon of the week or whatever.
If possible (but separate from the above) I think it'd be great if the information in Brogan's profile could also be put in a thread in the announcements forum, it'd make it a lot easier to find and as with Brogan's profile at the moment wouldn't promise anything and would just show the important posts from Kier & Mike.
If possible (but separate from the above) I think it'd be great if the information in Brogan's profile could also be put in a thread in the announcements forum, it'd make it a lot easier to find and as with Brogan's profile at the moment wouldn't promise anything and would just show the important posts from Kier & Mike.
It's no wonder, lol. I linked you to the wrong post.
http://xenforo.com/community/thread...dates-from-kier-mike.14436/page-3#post-189314
Oh, lol. Yeah. Attorneys are freaking expensive. Like I said before, hopefully it will be dropped or solved soon!
Again, I have no idea what you guys mean. You linked a bunch of my posts together. I also read vodkaholic's post but it really means nothing to me.
Why not just say what you mean instead? ..
Peggy
in memoriam 2016
At the moment it's simply a matter of resources.
The XF team want to build the software. Move it forward. Quickly.
They have to make big strides to mature the product in record time, to keep the buzz going and grow the company quickly.
Too slow and the buzz fades and people look elsewhere.
So, for the moment, I feel they are doing a great job of satisfying customers by delivering fully working, virtually bug-free software to the marketplace - something the competition (due to the size and complexity of their products) finds difficult to do.
We need to allow XF to leverage that edge and then give us more detailed info as things settle down and a better (internal) structure for marketing and product planning can be put in place.
Cheers,
Shaun
I couldn't have said it better (and obviously didn't).
kilcher
Active member
I could go either way on this. But... I do think XF would do well to look at the top 3-5 complaints voiced by users of other software and work hard to address those. Offer something users of competing software are literally begging for and not getting.
One of those complaints (with vBulletin specifically) is that users want better communication. Yes, we get it to an extent in these forums but a blog with a short post every few days detailing what they're working on would go a long way. People want that info in one spot, they don't want to have to search for nuggets here and there.
If it truly is an issue of resources that's understandable. And as long as we're seeing progress I think most people are ok with that. I think we're just in a bit of a lull right now. People have been told for several months that no new features would be added until a stable version was released. Now it's here and people are anxious to see what's to come.
One of those complaints (with vBulletin specifically) is that users want better communication. Yes, we get it to an extent in these forums but a blog with a short post every few days detailing what they're working on would go a long way. People want that info in one spot, they don't want to have to search for nuggets here and there.
If it truly is an issue of resources that's understandable. And as long as we're seeing progress I think most people are ok with that. I think we're just in a bit of a lull right now. People have been told for several months that no new features would be added until a stable version was released. Now it's here and people are anxious to see what's to come.
AdamD
Well-known member
The announcement forum seems more than sufficient for posting updates, there's no need to disperse the information all over the place.
I've never understood why some companies post different bits of information on several media outlets, including blogs/twitter/facebook and third party sites, it all needs to be posted on their official site.
I've never understood why some companies post different bits of information on several media outlets, including blogs/twitter/facebook and third party sites, it all needs to be posted on their official site.
Kim
Well-known member
"XenForo needs a blog with regular updates from Kier & Mike"
Totally disagree myself. Someone (probably many, I have to confess I haven't read the whole topic) held up IPB as an awesome example of this... can I just say ... Nooooooooooooooooooooooo.... As someone who found out the hard way by being snarked at by a Certain IPB Senior Manager - that apparently as a customer it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to have to wade through gigabytes of management/developer/office go'fer Blog waffle on new features, rants raves and various other acres of really rather self interested material in order to garner the odd chewy nugget of something remotely relevant to what you might be interested in... like for example a HUGE pre-release of a major new component that you have been anxiously awaiting for the last 5 or 6 years.... And missed out on because - stupid you.. you didn't spend your whole life hanging on every Blogged gem from a software company.
Brogan is the hardest working mod/support person I have ever encountered, I would hate to see him dragged away from that to blog what is essentially marketing bumph. But perhaps the guys all want to do this, I dunno, so long as they don't do an IPB and post key stuff in Blogs alone, it is no skin off my nose.
Announcements forum will do me fine for Company Information, I most assuredly do not want to have to go searching for what should be vital forum news.
Obviously it is up to Mike, Kier and Ashley what they choose to do, but I for one hope that is to continue to refine and develop this amazing base into the very best Forum Software suite out there, and not waste half their days on drivel... but that is of course my opinion
Totally disagree myself. Someone (probably many, I have to confess I haven't read the whole topic) held up IPB as an awesome example of this... can I just say ... Nooooooooooooooooooooooo.... As someone who found out the hard way by being snarked at by a Certain IPB Senior Manager - that apparently as a customer it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to have to wade through gigabytes of management/developer/office go'fer Blog waffle on new features, rants raves and various other acres of really rather self interested material in order to garner the odd chewy nugget of something remotely relevant to what you might be interested in... like for example a HUGE pre-release of a major new component that you have been anxiously awaiting for the last 5 or 6 years.... And missed out on because - stupid you.. you didn't spend your whole life hanging on every Blogged gem from a software company.
Brogan is the hardest working mod/support person I have ever encountered, I would hate to see him dragged away from that to blog what is essentially marketing bumph. But perhaps the guys all want to do this, I dunno, so long as they don't do an IPB and post key stuff in Blogs alone, it is no skin off my nose.
Announcements forum will do me fine for Company Information, I most assuredly do not want to have to go searching for what should be vital forum news.
Obviously it is up to Mike, Kier and Ashley what they choose to do, but I for one hope that is to continue to refine and develop this amazing base into the very best Forum Software suite out there, and not waste half their days on drivel... but that is of course my opinion
The Geek
Active member
Wow, I would have thought most people would of cited IPB as a great example in their regular communication to customers. I sure would have, but I suppose some feel hidden and dispersed information (like a treasure hunt) is perhaps more rewarding? Then they can comment with authority when lost customers ask general questions in the forums.
Sometimes it is easy to get lost in the feeling that those that post are your audience instead of simply a small vocal part of it.
I don't want to hear about the legal stuff. Just occasional heads up on what direction the ship is headed or an occasional musing from the personalities behind the software. It puts faces to the names and shows an active interest in communications.
This may not be the time, but hopefully when it is right, it will be considerd.
Off to go read some IPB blogs to see what they've ben up to recently
Sometimes it is easy to get lost in the feeling that those that post are your audience instead of simply a small vocal part of it.
I don't want to hear about the legal stuff. Just occasional heads up on what direction the ship is headed or an occasional musing from the personalities behind the software. It puts faces to the names and shows an active interest in communications.
This may not be the time, but hopefully when it is right, it will be considerd.
Off to go read some IPB blogs to see what they've ben up to recently
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