Xenforo And Vbulletin: Which is better?

[vstevenphan]

I've created a new forum, but I didn't know which is better between Xenforo and Vbulletin
I need a source :
+ Have nice skins
+ Many add-ons (shop,credits,..)
+ Be fast to load pages
+ Good for SEO
+ Update usually
+ Have a large community to help each other
Please help me

 

[silence]

vB5 mod support is limited so I wouldn't use vB5 until developers actually start developing for it. vB4 is a bit better, but many of the mods are unsupported and completely all over the place. Coding for vB4 is a pain and the amount of effort it's worth means nothing when it will be slow even if it's coded by the books.
Keep in mind pretty much everything vB offers, XF offers as well, except it's being improved on actively.

 

[Digital Doctor]

vB5 mod support is limited so I wouldn't use vB5 until developers actually start developing for it. vB4 is a bit better, but many of the mods are unsupported and completely all over the place. Coding for vB4 vB5 is a pain and the amount of effort it's worth means nothing when it will be slow even if it's coded by the books.

Indeed.
(I think you meant vB5).

 

[Lucas]

vBulletin, obviously!

 

[vstevenphan]

oh...................................

 

[KatieH]

Xenforo seems to have many add-ons needed to pay
I can't find any credit and shop add-ons which are free and work effectively on my site

Look at the poll, you're right. I'm going to get biased view here @@

That is why i don't like how mods/addons work here. On vbulletin.org things were made for the community and published for free, that is why they had a community and coders participating and actually challenging each others to show who makes the best modification in the month or the year etc., Princeton's mods were one of my favorite but here things are made for $$ and not just few but most of the good mods.

I can understand few mods getting paid for because they took a lot of time to get it developed and published i.e., the quality modifications but to find simple mods here that are not free, paying $5 here and there for these simple mods, would make investment for Xenforo a lot more expensive than it looks. And keeping this direction going, in the long run will not look good in my opinion.

Are developers here developing mods for fun and for the reputation of Xenforo or for the business and generating income. I don't want to feel that Xenforo resource section is like a freelancer section with paid projects.

Why do i need to pay for social groups $40 for ex if it is part of vb software http://xenforo.com/community/resources/social-groups-for-xenforo-1-2-compatible.267/

5$ for simple mods like these http://xenforo.com/community/resources/posts-per-day.2331/ , http://xenforo.com/community/resources/extra-max-thread-time-limit-per-node.2311/
I personally don't encourage this practice, this is definitely not what attracted me to vbulletin back in 2003 when i was looking first at IPB and discovered vb.

But in my opinion, Xenforo looks more modern and lighter than Vb.

 

[TPerry]

That is why i don't like how mods/addons work here. On vbulletin.org things were made for the community and published for free, that is why they had a community and coders participating and actually challenging each others to show who makes the best modification in the month or the year etc., Princeton's mods were one of my favorite but here things are made for $$ and not just few but most of the good mods.

Know very little about how the vB stuff is done - but is that an OFFICIAL (as in registered/ran by) vBulletin (InterNet Brands) site? Or is it one that is "affiliated" with but owned by an individual? I would expect that if it was an official site they would not still be running 3.6.12 - but the latest version.

I can understand few mods getting paid for because they took a lot of time to get it developed and published i.e., the quality modifications but to find simple mods here that are not free, paying $5 here and there for these simple mods, would make investment for Xenforo a lot more expensive than it looks. And keeping this direction going, in the long run will not look good in my opinion.

And nobody is preventing anyone from starting up another site (in fact, xenforomods.com is available) and doing the same thing. Those that want to push to "free" add-ons could have their own site and run any contests they wanted. Most of the involved mods here are done by a few good coders - and they've been around when times were dark and continued coding add-ons during that period (most for free). Now that xenForo is taking off I don't begrudge them the ability to make some coin. Some of those "$5" ones can be a fairly involved one that the author would like to recoup some on.

Are developers here developing mods for fun and for the reputation of Xenforo or for the business and generating income. I don't want to feel that Xenforo resource section is like a freelancer section with paid projects.

I think you can see by coders like @Chris Deeming, @xfrocks, @Waindigo and several others that I am not going into mentioning provide numerous "free" add-ons in the resources as well as premium content. Should they just do it for free all the time? Do you work at your job for free all the time? Some of these folks ARE coders - and they take time out of their normal daily routines to do this. I know when I worked (I'm retired now) I sometimes did computer work for folks for free - but then I also did some of payment. No different here.

Why do i need to pay for social groups $40 for ex if it is part of vb software http://xenforo.com/community/resources/social-groups-for-xenforo-1-2-compatible.267/

Feel free to learn to code yourself and then push it out for free. And, this is NOT vb software. I guess you will next be getting into why doesn't it have a CMS already built in, or a photo gallery, etc.
You don't want to pay for it - don't use it.... or learn to code yourself and do your own custom add-on (like one person has done that has totally customized his site - and he WAS on vB, so that should indicate something).
I spent a little time looking around the site you commented about - and noticed that a lot of the "good" add-ons are a "lite" version, minus many features that their "pro" versions have.

5$ for simple mods like these http://xenforo.com/community/resources/posts-per-day.2331/ , http://xenforo.com/community/resources/extra-max-thread-time-limit-per-node.2311/
I personally don't encourage this practice, this is definitely not what attracted me to vbulletin back in 2003 when i was looking first at IPB and discovered vb.

A lot of those "little add-ons" can be done by custom template edits and a little other work - but some people are either to lazy to learn to do them or it's just something that confuses them easily (I still am working on trying to remember how to do a template mod I did but when I updated the style it blew it out of the water - that was before I learned to make child styles of the main one).

But in my opinion, Xenforo looks more modern and lighter than Vb.

It not only looks, but is. Several of my users comment on how responsive they are compared to the vB boards they visit.

 

[Claudio]

PhpBB of course!















Joking!

 

[KatieH]

Know very little about how the vB stuff is done - but is that an OFFICIAL (as in registered/ran by) vBulletin (InterNet Brands) site? Or is it one that is "affiliated" with but owned by an individual? I would expect that if it was an official site they would not still be running 3.6.12 - but the latest version.


And nobody is preventing anyone from starting up another site (in fact, xenforomods.com is available) and doing the same thing. Those that want to push to "free" add-ons could have their own site and run any contests they wanted. Most of the involved mods here are done by a few good coders - and they've been around when times were dark and continued coding add-ons during that period (most for free). Now that xenForo is taking off I don't begrudge them the ability to make some coin. Some of those "$5" ones can be a fairly involved one that the author would like to recoup some on.


I think you can see by coders like @Chris Deeming, @xfrocks, @Waindigo and several others that I am not going into mentioning provide numerous "free" add-ons in the resources as well as premium content. Should they just do it for free all the time? Do you work at your job for free all the time? Some of these folks ARE coders - and they take time out of their normal daily routines to do this. I know when I worked (I'm retired now) I sometimes did computer work for folks for free - but then I also did some of payment. No different here.


Feel free to learn to code yourself and then push it out for free. And, this is NOT vb software. I guess you will next be getting into why doesn't it have a CMS already built in, or a photo gallery, etc.
You don't want to pay for it - don't use it.... or learn to code yourself and do your own custom add-on (like one person has done that has totally customized his site - and he WAS on vB, so that should indicate something).
I spent a little time looking around the site you commented about - and noticed that a lot of the "good" add-ons are a "lite" version, minus many features that their "pro" versions have.


A lot of those "little add-ons" can be done by custom template edits and a little other work - but some people are either to lazy to learn to do them or it's just something that confuses them easily (I still am working on trying to remember how to do a template mod I did but when I updated the style it blew it out of the water - that was before I learned to make child styles of the main one).


It not only looks, but is. Several of my users comment on how responsive they are compared to the vB boards they visit.

Just keep your response simple and short

1. From what i know vbulletin.org were run by volunteers but they are hosted on vbulletin main server.
2. The idea is not telling Xenforo customers (new or old) if you don't like it, learn how to code because you are lazy, that is rude and doesn't make sense. Be aware that many of Xenforo coders came originally from vbulletin.org and they have modifications there.
3. The idea is if Xenforo encouraged this for the long run as like a freelance style to sell whatever you code, is not going to be good in the long run. I've already explained why above.

There is an active community here, nice ones too and Xenforo has a lot of potential but i would revise this resource section and which approach it needs to take. If i were to put some rules, i would put some rules that only let say VIP members can sell their products and there would have to be rules where it shows that these VIP members earn it by contributing to the Xenforo community and publishing many good free modifications, as a reward by their reputation and contributions, they get a VIP status to sell more of their high end products that they have worked on for many month. That should tip the balance, not leaving it open to anyone to sell and promote that idea even if they are simple mods.

I think the point here is that may be we need to show that Xenforo is not a spot where you go to in order to sell your products but you would need to contribute to the software and help the community in exchange you get more benefits.

 

[Jeremy]

Katie, XenForo doesn't advocate for paid or free add-ons. It allows the market to exist in a relatively free environment. There is very little over sight from us except when security issues are reported or an author requests some sort of action. Any developer here is free to charge what they wish, for whichever add-on they wish.

As for vBulletin.org, it is an official sister site with a few paid employees running it at the helm and acting as liaisons, but when I left staff there, it was still relatively autonomous. And the environment there is the same as the environment here, however, XenForo does allow listing of paid add-ons, which IIRC, vBulletin.org didn't do.

 

[Adam Howard]

@KatieH

Developers are people too. And everyone has got to eat (yes, I'm making that argument).

I agree that it totally sucks when there is not a balance between free and paid development.

On IPB most everything, including simple things, were paid and I felt like you needed deep pockets (open ended blank checks) to get anything done. And on vBulletin most everything was free, but not nearly as supported as they are here on XenForo.

On here (XenForo) we have a good balance of free and paid development. And overall they're all evenly supported. That is what makes this community / development better.

But really, this isn't the forum (sales forum) to be having this debate or bumping this thread for such a debate (in my opinion).

 

[KatieH]

I was just saying but i see the bigger picture

I just want to see Xenforo becomes better. What made VB shine during vb 3.7.x , 3.8.x and 4.x was that many of the modifications were free, only few of the big ones were lite and their full version were paid but once you try it and know that it looks and feel really good.

The rest of the nice addons which enhanced vb were nice to use because they were free. So more people bought vb during that time because there were many things to try for free.

 

[Paul B]

http://xenforo.com/community/resources/?type=free

 

[Morgain]

@KatieH I understand your feelings about wanting everything free. Very natural.
However the main example you say frustrated you not being free is a shop addon. If an XF admin is selling on their site it makes sense they pay for the software that helps them do it.

Secondly a few bits of info about what are called free addons.

Some addons are free because developers genuinely charge nothing to anyone. That means you're getting a high level skill for nothing - someone has put in an hour or maybe 15 hours work so you can have it.
Up to a point this can work on a mutual community support mode - for example I can't code much but in my time I've done a ton of support here for newcomers.
But not many developers want to develop an addon further to add features and do endless slog hours of support for pestering users - for nothing. So free addons are the most likely to be left behind, staying limited. Some excellent ones do get developed Jake's Nodes As tabs for example. But a lot get left behind.
.
The other thing is that many of the more substantial useful addons might be free to you, but actually someone paid for them. For example Waindigo gets paid for his bigger addons by private clients, or a small team of them. So do others. That can mean payments going from £50 up to £500 or even more backing the 'free' addon you get. The backers have agreed for the addon to be made available to the community free.
But the developer still does all the weary months of support 'free.'
Waindigo has a good model where he adds a feature if someone pays for it separately. I think that is very sensible. His working model means he's done some of the most useful addons in the community - and LOTS of them because people are paying to keep him going as a full time developer. Good for him and for us.

Another model is the excellent Xenzine which the developer wants for his own site. He charges quite a solid fee but on the other hand he is wonderful at adding features we want - his design and his code is cool - and the new stuff keeps arriving almost every week!.

Not many people have the time and energy these days to work free. An hour or so maybe. But more than that I think people deserve to be paid.

 

[Adam Howard]

I was just saying but i see the bigger picture

I just want to see Xenforo becomes better. What made VB shine during vb 3.7.x , 3.8.x and 4.x was that many of the modifications were free, only few of the big ones were lite and their full version were paid but once you try it and know that it looks and feel really good.

The rest of the nice addons which enhanced vb were nice to use because they were free. So more people bought vb during that time because there were many things to try for free.

I will agree that it would be nice if there were more lite and pro version.

That would be a good mesh of the two and further add to the balance of things.

I imagine why most don't do it that way is because you technically end up maintaining 2 versions of the same thing.

Never the less... I hold to my original stance that there is currently a good balance between free and paid resources at the moment.

 

[Daniel Hood]

5$ for simple mods like these http://xenforo.com/community/resources/posts-per-day.2331/ , http://xenforo.com/community/resources/extra-max-thread-time-limit-per-node.2311/
I personally don't encourage this practice, this is definitely not what attracted me to vbulletin back in 2003 when i was looking first at IPB and discovered vb.

Posts per day is my add on, don't want to pay $5? don't buy it.
I'm a web developer, I enjoy coding but I'm not making you add ons as a hobby. I may make myself add ons as a hobby but I do not operate a large community at this point. I don't have money coming in from ad revenue. My add ons may help you get more visitors, may supply your members with a feature that they like that keeps them coming around. It may result in you getting more money, more enjoyment, etc. Why should I not profit from that? I'm sorry if you feel like I'm nickle and diming you, but that add on, simple or not, took time out of my day, maybe it was only an hour, maybe it was 5. It doesn't matter, if you feel it's too simple to pay $5 for, don't, make it yourself.

I could have put a donate button up instead. However, I've tried that method in the past (not just here), people just use the free product for free and don't donate (in most cases) and I don't blame them. If the product is advertised as free, why should they pay? So I tried a new approach, I put http://xenmods.com up, offer a premium group that you can buy into for $5 a month, $20 for 6 months) just like it says in that post and you'll get $5 off any add on I create for the duration of your subscription.

tl;dr - you want us (developers) to support your community with add ons, we'd like you to help support us in exchange. It does seem fair, right?

 

[KatieH]

Posts per day is my add on, don't want to pay $5? don't buy it.
I'm a web developer, I enjoy coding but I'm not making you add ons as a hobby. I may make myself add ons as a hobby but I do not operate a large community at this point. I don't have money coming in from ad revenue. My add ons may help you get more visitors, may supply your members with a feature that they like that keeps them coming around. It may result in you getting more money, more enjoyment, etc. Why should I not profit from that? I'm sorry if you feel like I'm nickle and diming you, but that add on, simple or not, took time out of my day, maybe it was only an hour, maybe it was 5. It doesn't matter, if you feel it's too simple to pay $5 for, don't, make it yourself.

I could have put a donate button up instead. However, I've tried that method in the past (not just here), people just use the free product for free and don't donate (in most cases) and I don't blame them. If the product is advertised as free, why should they pay? So I tried a new approach, I put http://xenmods.com up, offer a premium group that you can buy into for $5 a month, $20 for 6 months) just like it says in that post and you'll get $5 off any add on I create for the duration of your subscription.

tl;dr - you want us (developers) to support your community with add ons, we'd like you to help support us in exchange. It does seem fair, right?

Well i am not going to get too personal about this.. because it shouldn't be, from your point of view it seems fair when you explain it but in general when it becomes the common practice, i was saying it won't make Xenforo look good in the long run because everyone would want to profit from their created addons, and the concept of make them to support the community and raise xenforo features' quality like how i saw it back in the day with vbulletin. That was my point.

But the world changes so does everything

 

[silence]

Posts per day is my add on, don't want to pay $5? don't buy it.
I'm a web developer, I enjoy coding but I'm not making you add ons as a hobby. I may make myself add ons as a hobby but I do not operate a large community at this point. I don't have money coming in from ad revenue. My add ons may help you get more visitors, may supply your members with a feature that they like that keeps them coming around. It may result in you getting more money, more enjoyment, etc. Why should I not profit from that? I'm sorry if you feel like I'm nickle and diming you, but that add on, simple or not, took time out of my day, maybe it was only an hour, maybe it was 5. It doesn't matter, if you feel it's too simple to pay $5 for, don't, make it yourself.

I could have put a donate button up instead. However, I've tried that method in the past (not just here), people just use the free product for free and don't donate (in most cases) and I don't blame them. If the product is advertised as free, why should they pay? So I tried a new approach, I put http://xenmods.com up, offer a premium group that you can buy into for $5 a month, $20 for 6 months) just like it says in that post and you'll get $5 off any add on I create for the duration of your subscription.

tl;dr - you want us (developers) to support your community with add ons, we'd like you to help support us in exchange. It does seem fair, right?

Or you can ask someone to code up a similar version and make it for free, thus encouraging competition.

 

[Morgain]

Or you can ask someone to code up a similar version and make it for free, thus encouraging competition.

Yes there is a section where you can request the community to make any addon you like.
So that would solve the issue.

 

[Daniel Hood]

Well i am not going to get too personal about this.. because it shouldn't be, from your point of view it seems fair when you explain it but in general when it becomes the common practice, i was saying it won't make Xenforo look good in the long run because everyone would want to profit from their created addons, and the concept of make them to support the community and raise xenforo features' quality like how i saw it back in the day with vbulletin. That was my point.

But the world changes so does everything

Why shouldn't/wouldn't they want to profit from their work? It isn't our job to make XenForo look good, KAM does a great job of that on their own. XenForo is a fantastic system. If you need free addons to sell you on the product then the product isn't for you.

We contribute to XenForo not by working on it for free, but by providing additional features that aren't offered in the core. For that, we should be rewarded.

If I was coding for phpBB I would expect everyone to want all my addons for free and all my addons would have a copyright on them. There's only one of my addons on here that comes with a copyright, the other ones have no branding. I get no link backs, I get no credit on the sites using it, I should get some money.

So far, people seem to agree. This isn't personal and I'm not trying to offend you, I'm not offended by your post (I kind of was at first when you basically said my work wasn't worth $5) I understand now that it was just an example so it's cool. I get the point you're trying to make, I just don't think it's fair how the internet treats developers. Not just this community but in general. People complain about spending $5-20 on a script, they act like anyone can do what we do. They could, but they don't, they didn't put the years into learning, they didn't put the hours into the script. We're not asking for something crazy just a little compensation.

 

[Jeremy]

This debate is done. Its been hashed out before, and it just deteriorates. That original poster has received his answer, I think its safe to close this now.