Why are there so many spams here?

[Dan Cryer]

One problem I foresee with this idea. Why should users be paying another fee to stop spammers getting in their XenForo sites? The software should have the tools their already to do the job, not having to consider paying some 3rd party person a price each week to stop them.

I agree ... but that isn't the case presently, and likely won't be for a time.

I'd be open to some kind of official tie-in with XenForo (I already contacted them) - I just think it is worth having an option for admins in the mean time.

 

[Mouth]

I want to preface my response below by saying I am not trying to be solely critical (although it will seem that way) of your service or initiative. Merely trying to understand why we need yet another spam service in an already fragmented community effort. Why is is different, and why is it better? What added-value will I, or anyone else, get in our anti-spam efforts that is not already available? What will WOW me? More services and more add-ons, whilst being good for choice, is not always good for community efforts such as spam prevention and reduction. This is one such area where we need the talented to pool together and be brilliant, not just good enough.

• We use different (again, not necessarily better or worse) third party services, which each operate in a different market, so to speak - they're not all just bot catching services.

Which? You gave StopForumSpam and CloudFlare as example. StopForumSpan is already used by XenUtiles, and AFAIK CloudFlare is only available for accepting spam reports back to them, not using them as a spam check service. I cannot ascertain why you are better, or worse. So far it looks like you operate in the exact same market.

• We combine the third party data with our own, in a weighted algorithm to decide the risk level.

So do the XenUtiles services - StopForumSpam, BotScout, and FSpamList. They use each others data, as well as client provided data, with their own algoritms and risk assessemnt levels. Why will you be able to do it better than they do?

• The spam service addon for XenForo doesn't do anything other than check for spam in registrations, and report spam when the Spam Cleaner bans a member.

Well, as you said - you've not used XenUtiles. If you had, or read about the services the use, you would see it does more than that. Regular scheduled scans of accounts (homepage check, signature scan, etc.) and profiles (messages and message contents) for spam. More than just registration checks. What above these functionalities, does your service perform?

• We intend to roll this out to more than just XenForo. There will be versions for IP.Board, vBulletin, Wordpress and so on - this widens the net for catching out spammers.

StopForumSpam, BotScout, and FSpamList, as used by XenUtiles, is also cross forum platform and cross content services with wide nets. Forums, Blogs, email lists, etc.

As I've said above, also, we share our reports with every service we use to check registrations - hopefully providing a positive impact on the community effort.

[/quote]

Yes, that is a requirement of being able to use the services - you must share back.

 

[Dan Cryer]

Which? You gave StopForumSpam and CloudFlare as example. StopForumSpan is already used by XenUtiles, and AFAIK CloudFlare is only available for accepting spam reports back to them, not using them as a spam check service. I cannot ascertain why you are better, or worse. So far it looks like you operate in the exact same market.

Integrated so far, are StopForumSpam, CloudFlare (which does allow IP-based lookups), BotScout, Project Honey Pot, SpamHaus, and our own internal database. We're also talking to Akismet.

It is likely that this list will change regularly, as will the weighting we apply to each source and our own internal results.

Well, as you said - you've not used XenUtiles. If you had, or read about the services the use, you would see it does more than that. Regular scheduled scans of accounts (homepage check, signature scan, etc.) and profiles (messages and message contents) for spam. More than just registration checks. What above these functionalities, does your service perform?

My apologies - I don't think I was clear in this point... I was pointing out that all our service does is registration spam prevention. It comes with nothing more and nothing less than that functionality (there's no post checking, no sitemap generation, etc. that XenUtils does.) For some that will be a good thing, others may prefer the XenUtils approach.


We're not necessarily looking to wow anyone here, just provide an option for those who are currently suffering from spam problems on their forums. We may be no different to XenUtils, or we may be better, or even worse - but I don't think the choice in itself is a bad thing. We're providing an option, and we'll share our data just like everyone else does, so everyone benefits.

 

[Dan Cryer]

All those services you mention are FREE to use, so all your doing really, is tapping into free services databases to check spam and wanting people to pay you for doing it.

Effectively, yes.

What you'd be paying for is:

• The fact that the service handles the XenForo integration for you.

• That it checks all of those services in one check.

• That it helps decide how relevant those services are to deciding whether or not to accept a registration. Do you want to just take it at face value that if an IP is in SpamHaus, it shouldn't be allowed to register?

• The integration of the service's own algorithms, working on its own database of reports and registrations. It doesn't rely solely on reports, or on the third party services, it also detects patterns across a network of sites (much akin to Akismet, or CloudFlare).

• Constant updates and improvements to the service - changes to our algorithms, integration of new third party services, and an ever growing database of

I'd offer it completely free, if I could - it just wouldn't be economically viable. Instead we'll make it as cheap as we possibly can, depending on interest levels that could be as low as £1-2/mo.
Of course, alternatively, you can simply choose not to use it if you're happy with what you have now. It's entirely up to you.

 

[tenants]

tough crowd,

I don't think having alternative options is a bad thing... and you might go an additional direction that XenUtils doesn't go...
Give it a bash, competition is always healthy (keep the rest of the spam prevention plug-in designers on their toes)

Unrelated question... how was it when you left VB, was it long ago?

 

[Dan Cryer]

Unrelated question... how was it when you left VB, was it long ago?

Me? I've never been involved with vBulletin (even as a customer).

I contracted for IPS for a while, but that was almost two years ago now.

 

[tenants]

Sorry, my memory is not as good as it used to be, even going back as far as 5 or 6 posts

Well, it's always good to see forum developers around XF

 

[RickM]

Dan, just a quick question.

Does the addon check each individual service (e.g stopforumspam, cloudflate,etc) individually, or does it do one call to your 'central database', which (i assume) would update every so often.

If its the latter, could you explain how this will work? Some spammers are come and gone within 30 minutes, already having done the damage. By the time it's added to the databases, its too late. Will there be a method of reporting spammers, and how often will the central db update its spam records?

 

[Dan Cryer]

Dan, just a quick question.

Does the addon check each individual service (e.g stopforumspam, cloudflate,etc) individually, or does it do one call to your 'central database', which (i assume) would update every so often.

If its the latter, could you explain how this will work? Some spammers are come and gone within 30 minutes, already having done the damage. By the time it's added to the databases, its too late. Will there be a method of reporting spammers, and how often will the central db update its spam records?

It checks all of the services at once, our own internal database is treated merely as an additional checking service.

There's a certain level of intelligence about re-checking external services, so high risk scores from those external services will be remembered so they don't have to be re-checked going forward (i.e. if CloudFlare tells us that an IP is bad, we keep that data for X amount of time without re-checking, as there's slim chance the situation will change.)

This is another reason that the service improves dependent on the number of forums using it - The more people that use it, the more likely it is that the service will already "know" about certain spammers.

 

[Slavik]

Would anyone be interested in testing a new Xenforo spam service?

It basically comes as an addon which checks all new registrations against our internal database and a selection of other sources (including StopForumSpam and CloudFlare) and advises whether or not the registration should be allowed. When you use the spam cleaner and ban a member, it reports it back to us as a spammer. For every forum using the service, it becomes stronger.

If you are interested, drop me an email: dan@block8.co.uk

Id say yes but I don't get any spammers on my board

 

[Brad L]

I wish the majority of members here would stop crying like children and allow the adults to discuss the lawsuit without the thread being closed. That group of people are doing more to hurt the community than anyone else. We have the announcement thread to handle the official update, so there is no reason to keep the discussion thread closed. Not every post needs to be accurate. This is so lame.

 

[Brandon Sheley]

we have movie spam now..lol
this is really getting ridiculous tbh

a flagship support forum shouldn't have dozens of spam threads EVERY DAY

maybe another "fix" needs to be in order

 

[steven s]

<snip>
a flagship support forum shouldn't have dozens of spam threads EVERY DAY
<snip>

I have the impression that the current version is locked and can not be altered at all.

 

[Brandon Sheley]

I have the impression that the current version is locked and can not be altered at all.

There are SEVERAL options to prevent spam, some of them are even free
All the spam does here is really makes it look like the owners could care less or are far to busy to spend an hour (at the most) on the site to prevent spam.
There are moderators and they do seem to catch the spam within a few hours, but the point is the spam shouldn't be public to begin with and is relatively easy to prevent.

 

[steven s]

There are SEVERAL options to prevent spam, some of them are even free
All the spam does here is really makes it look like the owners could care less or are far to busy to spend an hour (at the most) on the site to prevent spam.
There are moderators and they do seem to catch the spam within a few hours, but the point is the spam shouldn't be public to begin with and is relatively easy to prevent.

I agree wholeheartedly. But those options need to be installed. My guess is there are only 1, maybe 2 or at the most 3 people that install an addon.
And for whatever reason they can't touch the current install. Just my guess.