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What developers of mods think about Xenforo. They dont like it:

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Claudio

Well-known member
#1
Im really very interested in buy xenforo, but does the software have the neccesary implementations to be easy to make mods for it? the answer is no..at least for Dragonbyte mods developers (http://www.dragonbyte-tech.com/f8/s...onsider-working-themselves-into-xenforo-4427/)

For who doesnt know, Dragonbyte is a group of people that makes mods for vbulletin and also wanted to make mods for Xenforo when it was released, but they found too many problems..

My propose with this thread is analize their words in order to help to improve the software for xenforo developers, somethings is good to hear what developers say. Its true that the core software its important, and also its true that it needs mods created by the community or the software will have a short life..

Trekkan said:
Unfortunately the minimalistic approach of xF itself and the authors of it, doesn't lend to them doing too much when it comes to making options for the masses. It seems that they'd rather stick to the Apple way of doing things and saying "Here, drink this kool-aid, you like it.". Not that xF is a bad product, what they have done is really nice and I like it a lot. But they don't seem to encourage modding the software, at least from a marketing perspective on their site. Maybe it's just early in their roadmap and we'll see more later, hopefully so.

To be fair though, I think more than anything, it's the community there that annoys the hell out of me. So many people with their heads so far up their own asses... you can't ask a simple question because it's beneath them to answer. When you do ask a question, they continually question you as to "WHY?!" you need/want such a thing, even though they themselves aren't even going to code it. Everyone wants to tell everyone what and how to do things there instead of just shutting the hell up if it's not something they are personally interested in. Sadly, the vB forums are much nicer when to comes to how the mod community treats each other. I think it's because many on the xF mod community consider themselves above anyone else and are basically elitist jerks.

Anyway, sorry for the rant, I like xF, plan on using xF and hope it succeeds in all ways. I just dislike what I've seen of the majority of the community there and how the mods let the elitists treat other paying customers of xF.
and then

I do not disagree that they are working on the core software, etc. But without knowing what their plans are, in pretty much anything, you have to take everything on faith. While that might work for some, it doesn't work for me and that's why I made the statement about modding and whatnot from their site.

I'll say again, it's GOOD software and I really like it. I visit their forums on just about a daily basis, more lurking than anything. Of course, there are good people there, I'm NOT saying that they are all "elitist jerks". However, the "bad apples" as you put it, seem to be the majority of the posts (if not majority of the people) that I come across and the mods are usually perfectly ok with the way people are treated there. If that's how they want to run things, it's "their" site and they can do as they please, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. =)

I'm glad you've had a different experience, but unfortunately that in no way invalidates my own personal experiences and opinions of what I see there.
RedSpades answered him:
I have to agree with Trekkan.

Some of the main modders at Xenforo seem like they are ABOVE people. One of the TOP modders there, Jaxel, can be a real douche sometimes. I donated $200 to him for his lovely mods (just to take off the copyright) and I do not receive a Thank You. When I ask for support, he always gives a vague / smug response back to me. I love his mods, but his attitude sucks.
--------------------------

So, i prefer hundred of times xenforo before vbulletin (i also have 3 licences of vbulletin4), but this make me well consider migrate to xenforo. Also im using 3 pays mods by DragonBytes, and its a shame that they dont plan to make mods for xenforo because of this.

I hope this thread open the mind of some people of this community

Thread url: http://www.dragonbyte-tech.com/f8/s...onsider-working-themselves-into-xenforo-4427/
 

Jake Bunce

XenForo moderator
Staff member
#2
If he is having trouble getting his dev questions answered then I can probably help. I have begun developing addons recently. The addon system is easy to use once you get used to the code. The code is, admittedly, very different from vBulletin. It takes some getting used to.

Trekkan said:
Unfortunately the minimalistic approach of xF itself and the authors of it, doesn't lend to them doing too much when it comes to making options for the masses. It seems that they'd rather stick to the Apple way of doing things and saying "Here, drink this kool-aid, you like it."
I think he has a philosophical disagreement with XenForo's approach to features. See Kier's interview:

Kier said:
vBulletin was born of an age when having more options and more data displayed was a desirable thing. People wanted to be able to control minute details of the way they interacted with a forum - or so we thought.

XenForo is a product that debuts with decades of experience already under its developers' belts, and perhaps a degree more maturity in outlook. Our focus with XenForo is on providing a superior user experience rather than piling on new features. We are more of the opinion now that if we believe there is a right or optimal way to do something, we will just do that, rather than providing options to allow people to do it another way.

This simplifies the code, which helps prevent bugs and speed-up development, and usually makes for a more immediate and enjoyable experience for end users, who get the best out of the software without having to go and set it up themselves. Our years of experience with the software and dealing directly with customers gives us the confidence to do this with the expectation that the choices we make will be the ones that are best for users of the software.

Of course, sometimes we get it wrong, and the way that we think is best is not what our customers think - obviously in these instances we look again at what’s been done and what’s been said and decide if a new approach needs to be adopted.

Additionally, we are not in a mad rush to put more and more features into XenForo. Our focus is far more on quality and user experience - making what we have really enjoyable and intuitive to use, allowing people to rediscover how great it can be to simply post messages to each other.
 

xfrocks

Well-known member
#3
I don't get why the opinion of a team represents "developers of mods"? I have worked with both systems and needless to say, XenForo is much more enjoyable to work with. If the team doesn't want to work with XenForo and you want to move, I guess you can look for other developers here. Good luck ;)

PS: Or better yet, you can contact me but I'm kinda busy currently so... :D
 

Digital Doctor

Well-known member
#6
It seems the OP was selectively quoting the thread.

Originally Posted by Trekkan
Everyone wants to tell everyone what and how to do things there instead of just shutting the hell up if it's not something they are personally interested in. Sadly, the vB forums are much nicer when to comes to how the mod community treats each other. I think it's because many on the xF mod community consider themselves above anyone else and are basically elitist jerks.
Sheldon Bowyer replied:

I find this really hard to swallow. I, myself, have xenForo and can personally say I have never had a problem with the community there. I find it much easier to speak directly to the add-on developers, one on one than I have with vB. I have had many questions, none have went unanswered. I have had issues with my site, and have had the staff their log into my site to help, so they could see what was the issue, what was going on, etc. I realize you can base this off a few posts by some members, calling them "elitest jerks", and there might be a couple that fit that profile. That in no way represents xenForo as a whole, and it's unfortunate that you felt the need to blast the rest of the modders who do help, who do work, who answer every question, in with the bad apples. As fas as the marketing modding software on their site, from what I see on a daily basis, they are adding to their current software. I think the core product itself right now is just as important, if not more, than marketing the modding ability.

I'll just say, the community feel at the xenForo forums trumps any experience I have had asking for help elsewhere.
 

Robert F Schmitz

Well-known member
#7
I am not really sure where that all came from. From day one after the release of xF beta, mods were beginning to be posted. As for the statement "But without knowing what their plans are, in pretty much anything, you have to take everything on faith.", that has me a bit confused. I have always felt that a general direction has been made available and whenever possible, Kier has posted videos that point out how features can benefit those creating mods.
Jaxel is doing a great job developing mods and has been almost from day one. One's life is filled with people that may not react or act the way you want them to but if we all were the same it would be a bit boring. ;)
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
#8
Trekkan is only a tester, he doesn't speak for staff as far as I can tell.

As far as what developers think... None of the ones I know have any issues with XenForo whatsoever (Other than the occasional need for documentation). Most people are only waiting on 1.1 because it is likely very close (Less than a month), and others are just busy with their own add-ons, or sites.

People just forget that developers also have lives, and also have their own priorities.
 

Claudio

Well-known member
#9
Those comments seem to be from end-customers, not developers nor the DB staff (unless I'm missing something). :unsure:
Trekkan is a vbulletin mod developer of dragonbytes

Digital Doctor said:
It seems the OP was selectively quoting the thread.
I only wanted to quote negative feedback about xenforo mods/developers, when you are going to purchase some software, you need (well...in my case) to see whats going wrong with it and if it will improve mods in terms of quantity and quality
 

Robert F Schmitz

Well-known member
#10
The software is less than a year old. What's going wrong is really hard to quantify for me. I have been on vB for a good while and well needless to say what is going wrong. I don't mean this as a bash of vB and play fanboy of xF but I finally made a hard decision to dump my vB4 on a site that really could use it for a new seat of xF because of all the things going right here and wrong there.

There is solid and positive support here from staff and members alike if you run into a problem and things get fixed in a timely manner when it is a bug.
 

Digital Doctor

Well-known member
#12

Digital Doctor

Well-known member
#13
Im really very interested in buy xenforo, but
I reported the insulting / unhelpful comments about a very important Addon Developer here.
I realize you didn't say it ... but I think it would be best if you edit out names in your post.
Your links to the source of the insulting can remain if you want.
 

Forsaken

Well-known member
#14
Trekkan is a vbulletin mod developer of dragonbytes

I only wanted to quote negative feedback about xenforo mods/developers, when you are going to purchase some software, you need (well...in my case) to see whats going wrong with it and if it will improve mods in terms of quantity and quality
He is listed as a beta tester on their forum: http://www.dragonbyte-tech.com/showgroups.php

Theres nothing wrong with XenForo as a platform, and development is quite booming for a year old piece of software. People just have this outrageous assumption that development speed should match their hopes.
 

Jeremy

Well-known member
#15
I only wanted to quote negative feedback about xenforo mods/developers, when you are going to purchase some software, you need (well...in my case) to see whats going wrong with it and if it will improve mods in terms of quantity and quality
Then you obviously have a biased opinion. You can't expect every developer to jump on a new product just because someone wants it. I came to XF just to see what it was all about, I fell in love with the software, and joined. Bought it day one just to see the code and play, and let me tell you: I love it! The software is fun and easy to learn with. Can they show us a question they didn't get answered? A lot of questions get answered at some point in the development forums, and I know I've talked with other developers in private over stuff. We had major modifications out within days of XF v1.0 beta 1, which is an accomplishment. So, we don't have a few more out, but 1.1 is right around the corner, and we have lives. DragonByte isn't the all-knowing development god, they are developers. And have their opinion. It doesn't reflect it as a whole.
 

Onimua

Well-known member
#16
If you want a true opinion of what add-on developers for XenForo think of developing for XenForo, look here on the site. Any complaints being made elsewhere do little to improve things here since it's unlikely Kier and Mike will see it.

That said, I love developing for XenForo and see myself spending quite a bit of time working with the platform for the foreseeable future. I plan on cementing that in a few weeks. :cool:
 

Crazyfruitbat

Well-known member
#17
I think it depends on the angle you look at this - I signed up for VB4 on day one and it was a good 6 months before we actually saw useful mods appearing on a platform that was supposed to be tried and tested. Devs were starting projects then giving up on them halfway and every time a vb4 update appeared none of the mods and styles worked and had to be re-written. We saw decent mods on here within weeks and updates brought very little hassle for the developers.

The other side of it is that Xenforo is not just a new board, it's a new company - probably with limited resources, books to keep, tax documents to submit, hassled by VB's lawyers all in a year with just a small handful of guys but they have still managed to make a great stable product from the off. I'd rather the stable product to build on rather than a platform that is going to constantly change.
 

Russ

Well-known member
#18
I'm on my cell but I'm pretty sure DB posted here saying its not they don't want to code for XF but rather thy don't have the time to learn the new system quite yet
 

Hoffi

Well-known member
#19
Eh... the Dragonbyte AddOns are not good coded. I testet some of them, but I realized that the AddOns aren't really good. Some are big performance users, some other breaks down the vBulletin System. Example: Own Installation Scripts, something other that breaks compatibility, Namespaces.

I plan the move for me at November/December and just began to learn the xF Structure, and I like it. it is a bit complicated, but a good developer shouldn't have Problems to use this.

What xF has, is a small Framework to develop easy AddOns, that really fits into the System without doing extra things. It is easy to implement it.
 

Shelley

Well-known member
#20
I'm on my cell but I'm pretty sure DB posted here saying its not they don't want to code for XF but rather thy don't have the time to learn the new system quite yet
I'm quite sure they will make time when xenforo becomes very popular in the sense that we're seeing many add-ons posted per days and there's 300-500 possibly more active customers online at every given time. At present, <can we call it a company goes in here I'm about to bulk> is too much of a money maker to just ignore. With that also said, I feel they have the luxury to hold off considering their talents and their very sort after add-ons.

We will see them here posting/selling add-ons it's only matter of when. Imo.
 
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