What advice would you give to a community owner/leader wanting to give up?
- Thread starter AjayJunkies
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AjayJunkies
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I hear this a lot: blame the forum software developers for not evolving, for not innovating, for not giving us social media. You're not wrong. But ...
At the same time, if forums are so outdated, why must you stay with forums?
There are now more options than ever before, for a whole bunch of specialized online communities. There are platforms specifically for advocate marketing, for content creators, for non-profit organizations, for social interests, etc. We, as owners, actually more options than ever before. Why do we stay with forums, and then blame the forum developers, when there are other options and choices out there? Classic, traditional forums genuinely may not be the appropriate choice for what you're wanting to build. It was a one-size-fits-all approach twenty years ago, but in 2024, there are specialized platforms for almost anything.
I think this is a tough question that we all need to challenge ourselves on. How much are we allowed to actually critique forum developers, when we DO have other options to build our communities on? Why do we cling to the idea that we MUST build on forums, and then complain about forums?
zappaDPJ
Well-known member
Forum software has always been late on delivering functionality and it's still playing catchup. I think part of the problem in the past was down to both the developers and forum owners having a desktop mentality but today it's mostly related to the limitations of running a small team.
That said, while forums may lack a degree of functionality, the basic format is not redundant or outdated in my view. If you consider this forum as an example I highly doubt it could be better replaced by any other form of social media. In fact you could probably strip out most of the functionality here and it would still serve the same purpose, purpose being the operative word.
It's a shame that this thread has degenerated into a size matters contest because it doesn't. As I alluded to earlier in this thread what matters is the degree to which your forum serves your community.
Ricsca
Well-known member
I criticize the forum programmers because I am very fond of the forum concept (and I am very fond of my 2 forums) but if the person who has to provide me with the program, which I also pay a lot for, does not make it evolve, I and most of the other admins are blocked and this contributes greatly to the death of the forums...
Most of those who buy xf (but also invision or vb) are not a programor because otherwise they would make the forum by themselves so it is the task and interest of the programmers to offer increasingly cutting-edge software to make the forums attractive to users in an era where most are on social networks...
But does it seem normal to you that in 20 years there has not been a decent internal newsletter system that really allows admins to contact their users (which is fundamental?)? Do you think they are working on it? I'll tell you.. no...
But they find the time to increase the costs of the licenses.
Arantor
Well-known member
Do not underestimate the amount of inertia that people have around the functionality being enough and so how dare you push for change. Also never underestimate the users that will come after you if you change how something was done. It's very discouraging.
The presumption that size is the only thing is hilarious. I still run one community, it has 17 members, 742 posts and 121 of those are mine. Most of the off topic stuff lives on Discord, along with discussions about posts while the actual content is longform storytelling. Net result is that quality deeply trumps quantity, and we are all very happy with how it's going.
You have no idea how much effort that really is. And I guarantee you that if you try to move too far from the forum concept, people don't actually want it.
The reason this isn't a thing is because the advice is always 'get a service that is dedicated to doing this'. If you blast 10k emails out or more from your own server you run the risk of being blocked for being a spammer, which means you're now playing games of figuring out trickling. Or you could just use Mailchimp or Hubspot and be done with it.
(As someone who at one time did corporate email newsletters sending millions of emails a month on a dedicated platform, this is vastly more complex than you assume.)
Max Fridman
Well-known member
Plus there are addOns that do exactly this. Like Dragonbyte Mail for example.
Ricsca
Well-known member
It seems that you are stuck with the old concept of a forum...
I have thousands and thousands of users registered on my sites (2 forums and some wp sites) and the basis is to be able to contact them!
But do you think the only solution should be to spend thousands of euros a month relying on third-party services or external email sending services?
For some needs I rely on them but first I try to do everything possible to do everything myself!
At least a shared server sends 500 emails per hour...
With wordpress if I have a site with 10,000 members I install one of the various plugins and I can set a series of parameters, including the number of emails every so often so I divide the 10,000 emails into 3/4 days and I have no spam problems and I don't have to spend at least 15 euros a month for a third-party service!
These are basic options that a forum must have in the core!
Imagine that invision doesn't even have an email bounce service that puts the user on "pause" unless they buy their cloud service (because if they have to be the ones to send emails then it becomes important)!
xenforo is invision or vbulletin are paid scripts that cost more and more and must put the administrator in a position to do everything possible (and easily) to keep his community active! Because if those who sell the script don't do their best, they contribute to the death of the forums!
Go tell Ferrari to stay still and not update..
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Deleted member 184953
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Managing communities that represent 1 million users and complaining about having to spend 15€ per month to send newsletters. We live in a wonderful world. But maybe 1,000,000 is a number you've slightly exaggerated? How many zeros did you accidentally add?
In France we have a proverb, I hope it will be understandable in English: "Only bad workers have bad tools".
(Solo i cattivi lavoratori hanno cattivi strumenti.)
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Deleted member 184953
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This is what discussion forums are all about: debating, arguing, contradicting, convincing, being convinced. And when you have a beautiful fish you shouldn't let go, look at the stats of this thread, cool right?
Ricsca
Well-known member
I don't complain about the developers of xf... I complain about the shortcomings that a script that costs more and more has... But I understand that you don't realize it because you are the one who doesn't know how to manage large communities...
I'll attach the statistics of my 2 forums anyway.
I also have other wordpress sites with many more views and many fewer articles but there's no need for me to attach the screen since you're good at just saying the opposite even though you bring data!
There are those who have been able to say that it's not true that google doesn't see forums well because it associates them with sites where people chat and therefore with little valuable content...
mjda
Well-known member
I mean, sure, it's definitely entertaining for times when I'm bored. At this point, however, it's just arguing. There is no convincing, or being convinced, going on here. People have been telling this guy he's wrong for quite some time now (well before this thread existed) and he refuses to accept the possibility that it's on him that his forums are dying.
Ricsca
Well-known member
I'm wrong... but your forums (and mine too) are practically all dead and almost no one writes there anymore...
Maybe I'm not wrong but you are the ones who are satisfied with having 5 new threads every week and with 5 new threads you delude yourselves into thinking you have an active forum...
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So sad that he put me on his ignore list, I had so many nice things to say to him...
mjda
Well-known member
So sad that he put me on his ignore list, I had so many nice things to say to him...
Even more proof that he's beyond explaining to. I can't believe I let myself get drawn back in to this idiocy again!
I deleted my last reply and will be going back to just reading this when I'm bored...
Ricsca
Well-known member
In life, facts count, not chatter... an active forum is a forum where there are thousands of new posts a day because it means that the forum is of interest to users who (being a forum not a blog) actively participate by writing...Even more proof that he's beyond explaining to. I can't believe I let myself get drawn back in to this idiocy again!
I deleted my last reply and will be going back to just reading this when I'm bored...
Today, most forums are dead and users hardly write even in forums with thousands of registered users!
So, go ahead and say that everything is fine and that the concept of a forum that has remained unchanged for 20 years is fine if it gives you the illusion of managing a dead forum that you think isn't...
Davyc
Well-known member
People have their own idea as to what their sites should be and how they work, for them. They don't need you to come in here gloating about how forums are dead and that they are no longer fit for purpose; that's a conceited line of thinking on your part. You can spout your facts and figures from now until doomsday, and they don't mean a jot to anyone but you.
If your own forums are dead, shut them, don't come on here complaining to others and trying to convince them that theirs are just as bad as yours. If you have found a new life on Social Media platforms, good for you, go there and spend time making them better instead of coming on here with your bombastic vitriol and insulting people by telling them they know nothing and that you are the Guru they should be listening to.
I build my sites for my own pleasure and if others take pleasure from visiting them, then my job is done. If they want to register and contribute, the system is ready for them, if they don't then they don't; that doesn't bother me in the least.
Others have already stated that they are happy with the way their sites are performing, it's not up to you to tell them different. You are now acting like a troll and if you were on my site doing this you would be banned in a heartbeat. You are not doing anyone any favours here, and certainly not doing yourself any favours either. Just be done with it and let people run their sites they way THEY want. You have derailed this topic for long enough.
If your own forums are dead, shut them, don't come on here complaining to others and trying to convince them that theirs are just as bad as yours. If you have found a new life on Social Media platforms, good for you, go there and spend time making them better instead of coming on here with your bombastic vitriol and insulting people by telling them they know nothing and that you are the Guru they should be listening to.
I build my sites for my own pleasure and if others take pleasure from visiting them, then my job is done. If they want to register and contribute, the system is ready for them, if they don't then they don't; that doesn't bother me in the least.
Others have already stated that they are happy with the way their sites are performing, it's not up to you to tell them different. You are now acting like a troll and if you were on my site doing this you would be banned in a heartbeat. You are not doing anyone any favours here, and certainly not doing yourself any favours either. Just be done with it and let people run their sites they way THEY want. You have derailed this topic for long enough.
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