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Understanding Permissions

Ryan Kent

Well-known member
#81
The MODERATING user group mentioned above provides global permissions throughout your forums.

The check boxes are specific permissions within the forum to which you assigned the moderator.
 

swatme

Well-known member
#82
so which has more power?
Delete post by anyone Allowed in MODERATING usergroup ?
or
Delete post by anyone uncheck in checkbox?

If i will just leave the checkbox uncheck, and allowed in moderating group,
who will have higher power, the checkbox setting or the moderating group setting?

thanks
 

Ryan Kent

Well-known member
#83
so which has more power?
Delete post by anyone Allowed in MODERATING usergroup ?
or
Delete post by anyone uncheck in checkbox?

If i will just leave the checkbox uncheck, and allowed in moderating group,
who will have higher power, the checkbox setting or the moderating group setting?

thanks
I am not sure how much clearer I can make it. I'll try explaining another way.

The MODERATING group which appears in ACP > List User Groups applies to every node in your forums. It is like a master key that will fit every lock. That key's access is defined by the permissions you choose, but they are applied to 100% of your forums.

The checkboxes you see when you are assigning permissions to a specific node apply to...that specific node only.

Example. Say you run a forum for languages. You list out every language from Albanian to Yiddish. If you assign someone to the MODERATING group, that person will then be able to go into every forum and moderate them all. If you have someone who speaks Albanian and you only want them to moderate the Albanian forums, you would not add them to the MODERATING group. Instead you would go to the Albanian node, make them a moderator of THAT node only, and then use the checkboxes to assign permissions as you see fit.

So to answer your question directly, the MODERATING group has more power.
 

Brogan

XenForo moderator
Staff member
#84

swatme

Well-known member
#85
Permissions are cumulative, whether set at group or user level, they have the same effect and priority.
really sorry if i have difficulty understanding the permissions as im new to paid forums.

so if I set in moderating usergroup = allowed to edit
and in specific moderator checklist = not allowed to edit (uncheck)

which one will be followed by xf, the allowed in moderating usergroup permission
or
the not allowed in specific moderator permission?
 

Brogan

XenForo moderator
Staff member
#86
Never overrides Allow.
Allow overrides Not Set (No).

Permission value priority is set in this order: (highest priority first)

  1. Never – this will not grant the permission. This can never be overridden, so should be used sparingly.
  2. Allow – this will grant the permission.
  3. Not Set (No) – this will not grant the permission. This is the lowest priority value; any explicit allow will override this.
http://xenforo.com/help/permissions/
 

Ryan Kent

Well-known member
#87
which one will be followed by xf, the allowed in moderating usergroup permission
or
the not allowed in specific moderator permission?
I know permissions are a stumbling block for many. Here is another way to think about it:

Not Set (No) means...I am not granting you permissions, nor am I denying you permissions. If you want to be allowed access, you will need to get your permissions somewhere else.

Allow means...I am granting you permissions

Never means...you are specifically disallowed permissions. I don't care if you have Allow permissions elsewhere, I am over-riding them and you cannot have access. Never should be used very sparingly or not at all. Never should also not be used in any template which might ever be assigned to an admin, as it will override their permissions. My recommendation for now would be, pretend this option does not exist and just use the other two settings.
 

FredC

Well-known member
#88
The permission system has or had problems playing nice with imported databases.. As a matter of fact they are so bad that im having to look into another alternative forum solution. I wont take anything away from XF but this is a real show stopper in my opinion.. And need a forum solution that is more reliable in this area..
 

Brogan

XenForo moderator
Staff member
#89
If you're having problems with permissions being set correctly, why not just start again from scratch and review everything?

Based on your last post, you still don't understand how they work correctly as this is completely wrong: http://xenforo.com/community/threads/8wayrun-com-xenporta-portal.7586/page-56#post-185295

I haven't seen many others with imported forums complain of permission related issues and if they have, they're always resolved by setting them correctly.

Put everyone in the Registered user group as the primary group
Set the basic permissions in that group which will affect all users
Set specific additional permissions in any other user groups and add users to those secondary groups as required
Set node specific permissions for user groups as required

That is essentially it.
 

Ryan Kent

Well-known member
#90
The permission system has or had problems playing nice with imported databases.. As a matter of fact they are so bad that im having to look into another alternative forum solution. I wont take anything away from XF but this is a real show stopper in my opinion.. And need a forum solution that is more reliable in this area..
There is no problem whatsoever with XenForo permissions. ZERO. The only issue is your understanding of them. They are laid perfectly ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THEM. You can give up, or you can try again. If you stick with it, you will experience that "AHHHHH" moment, and everything should be fine from that point.

The one piece of advice I will offer for now....Never use the Never permission setting. I have not used it one time for anything. I have zero permission issues. I have all my forum areas properly restricted so the right users have access and no one else. There are instances where Never is helpful, but for now just don't use it for anything.
 

FredC

Well-known member
#91
There is no problem whatsoever with XenForo permissions. ZERO. The only issue is your understanding of them. They are laid perfectly ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THEM. You can give up, or you can try again. If you stick with it, you will experience that "AHHHHH" moment, and everything should be fine from that point.

The one piece of advice I will offer for now....Never use the Never permission setting. I have not used it one time for anything. I have zero permission issues. I have all my forum areas properly restricted so the right users have access and no one else. There are instances where Never is helpful, but for now just don't use it for anything.
The permission system is to simple to not understand, i understand them perfectly.. And if never wasnt meant to be used in a situation where i never want other usergroups to see or do. Then why would it be there? Unless its flawed. Im just saying it cant be both. as you are saying.
 

Brogan

XenForo moderator
Staff member
#92
And if never wasnt meant to be used in a situation where i never want other usergroups to see or do. Then why would it be there? Unless its flawed. Im just saying it cant be both. as you are saying.
What is it that you think is flawed?

The permissions work exactly as intended if they are configured correctly.
 

Ryan Kent

Well-known member
#93
The permission system is to simple to not understand, i understand them perfectly.. And if never wasnt meant to be used in a situation where i never want other usergroups to see or do. Then why would it be there? Unless its flawed. Im just saying it cant be both. as you are saying.
I am trying to help, that's all here. I am just another forum owner. So forgive me for saying such but, you definitely do not understand the permission system. The "Never" property is almost not used if you understand the system. If it was used, it wouldn't be used on the Registered permission template.

100% of registered members....admins, moderators, members, etc should have the Registered template assigned to them. Anyone with a template assigned to them which has a Never assigned, loses their permissions. If your template was assigned to my site no one would have any access to anything at all. I can assure you, no one else with a XF site has a registered template set up the way you do. You are doing things very differently then everyone else, and you are having major problems/frustrations as a result.

The Never condition is there because there are situations when it's use is warranted. Just not the way you are choosing to use it.
 

Dean

Well-known member
#94
The permission system has or had problems playing nice with imported databases.. As a matter of fact they are so bad that im having to look into another alternative forum solution. I wont take anything away from XF but this is a real show stopper in my opinion.. And need a forum solution that is more reliable in this area..
I believe I remember your issues. You converted about Beta 4 or 6 didn't you? My early test imports also had issues.. but that is really a different topic that 'understanding permissions' - which I believe you clearly understand.
 

FredC

Well-known member
#95
That entire category and the nodes within it are private and exclusive to the Admin usergroup.. So Never as i understand the word "Never" would be perfectly acceptable.. Unless Never really means something different like once in awhile or sometimes.. If using Never on a private category and node doesn't really mean Never then i would say the system is flawed.. Weather it be the use of the word never or its just broke.. Either way the setting are the way they are because ive had problems with these permissions from the beginning.. Ive had to read each and every thread on the subject and wound up with setting that worked best for my flawed DB.. I DO UNDERSTAND the system just fine.. Ive read every thread and post here on the subject and have even payed for outside help.. The setting i use are what works on my installation Not yours.. These are the same or similar settings on my other XF powered forums with no problems.. Trust me ive gotten plenty of help and have used many man hours solving this problem.. the permissions just dont work on my DB. What YOU dont understand is that my setting are what they are is because nothing else worked.. The way my permissions are set up now is producing the closest to the intended results as i can get.. its not 100% but it is the closest i have been able to achieve..

I believe I remember your issues. You converted about Beta 4 or 6 didn't you? My early test imports also had issues.. but that is really a different topic that 'understanding permissions' - which I believe you clearly understand.
Yes i imported my first DB at beta three and my second at beta 4.. im sure the problems arise and still persist from my vB4 import.. and im sure the problem is still due to old out of date vB4 usergroups.. This was a documented problem that one of my sites still gives me trouble. I do dare say i understand the permissions better then most here because ive had to work with them extensively from the very beginning.. Several months later and a lot of experiments have proved (for me) that my use of the permissions have produced the best results but still far from 100%
 

swatme

Well-known member
#96
ok i got it thanks brogan and oracle
Heres the power hierarchy, whos the boss to permissions:

Never – Commander in Chief (president)
Allow – General
Not Set (No) – Sargeant

The Sargeant cannot argue to General
The General cannot argue with the Commander in Chief

the best part
The Commander in Chief cannot argue to Maker (kier,mike)
But the Maker cannot argue to the judge (IB case vs XF) :D
 

Dean

Well-known member
#97

gldtn

Well-known member
#98
View moderated threads / posts: if registered user is set to Allow, they will be able to only see the reason why it was deleted or view the actual content?

Because my registered users are not seeing why there thread has been moderated and I have this set to revoke
 

polle

Active member
#99
Well this is very confusing. I am trying to create a private forum for admin and supermoderators, just that.

I create the node.
I set it to private.
In groups below "private" I set admin everything to green and its not working, just see the forum, but without being able to post.
Everything gray and create threads in green, not working, everything green and publish to yellow, not working...

So I am an admin who creates a private forum that cant post in it.

Can someone explain why not a single combination works ?

Thanks.
 

Brogan

XenForo moderator
Staff member
Set the node as Private.

Explicitly allow access (View Node: Allow) to the groups you wish.

That's it.

If you can't post in the forum then you have Never set somewhere, in a group which you are a member of.