Two Steps Behind

[Morgain]

I do not call mischaracterizing what I said and then telling me what I should have done, after the forum was already up and running, helpful. That's where the personalities got into the picture. Improving things doesn't mean going back through time, sorry.

I wasn't telling you what you should have done. Done is done.
I was advising on what you can do NOW to speed up the acclimatisation.
Like using invited ventilation - invoking members favourite XF features - giving strong and definite positives on your members' attitudes instead of arguing with them.
Whether you like it or note, and clearly you don't, as an admin your personality is openly, nakedly on display for all to see. Very much "in the picture." Unless you're going to play robot admin (an interesting thread that came up recently) your personality is equally if not more important than your software.
So if you want help with your board's performance that includes the examination of what you are doing as a person. Tough call.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

One more time: I didn't argue with the members and, in fact, this was a singular thread that has since died down now that the few frustrations were voiced. They do not feel they were argued with. I invited ideas about improvements, and that's what I can do from here. I have asked for suggestions over and over and over again, and presented advice on the new features from Day One. What I do see is that most members don't want to know the nuts and bolts, so dwelling on them won't work. It's better to consider improvements to the presentation and promotion of those improvements. So what do we change in the forum design?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

So, for example, this post shortly after the new forum went live:

Recent Posts shows individual posts, not threads. So it may have several messages from the same thread, as you noticed. I'd rather have a Recent Thread feature, and I'm still looking for one that works with this forum.

As to the theme, we're always looking for better ideas, but I look at it as simpler.

Who is being argued with? Did you read the last paragraph? I have a number of posts of this sort, explaining new features, expressing my hopes for better things, and inviting help from members. Do you see now why I reject the claim I'm arguing with our members about the forum? The reverse is the truth -- I've always been asking for better ideas.

 

[Morgain]

One more time: I didn't argue with the members

OK this is a misunderstanding on words. By "argue" I did not mean attack or quarrel. To me argument is a difference of opinion not an attack. To argue is to contradict, or put a different view. That is what you weer doing. You weren't saying that their views were impressive and important. You were saying yours were. As I keep saying this was understandable but not helpful.

and, in fact, this was a singular thread that has since died down now that the few frustrations were voiced.

Exactly. That's what I meant by ventilation. Clearly you were encouraging this in other areas. But we only had that thread to go on which you offered - you can't really expect other busy admins to go exploring your board in general.

They do not feel they were argued with. I invited ideas about improvements, and that's what I can do from here.

Improvements in software are only 50% of enabling change.

I have asked for suggestions over and over and over again, and presented advice on the new features from Day One.

Yes you give excellent clear support on software. That was immediately obvious.
But that is only 50%.

What I do see is that most members don't want to know the nuts and bolts, so dwelling on them won't work.

You're right. They don't want just nuts and bolts. They want to be respected as persons.

It's better to consider improvements to the presentation and promotion of those improvements. So what do we change in the forum design?

The link between the admin pc and the chair.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

One more time: The software IS the only thing that changed from the point where we had good participation, to where it died down. Cause and effect.

The complaints, the few we saw, were about the experience in terms of the software, the look and feel and about using the features., compared to the comfort level of the old forums design and features. That's implicit in every single message. It was never about whether they felt welcomed in the forums or not. So we're assuming facts without evidence again.

This isn't a new community. The issues and treatment haven't changed -- except, once again, the software! Sorry you continue to confuse this.

 

[-GR-]

Ok, let's go with the software being at fault. The change in software was the final straw for a few active members causing them to move on. If your forum has been online since 2006 and you have 125,000 posts it isn't the most active community. So it isn't like you have 100's of active members posting everyday. So if you run off a few, it is going to make an impact.

However if you have a strong bond with your community they will ride through changes with you.

That isn't a slam or not meant in the wrong fashion, just putting it up for discussion, that is all.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

The key is to start from Day One. Realize we are here, and move on with better ways to present the forum.

With 125,000 posts, I say we are a medium-active board, and very few covering this subject matter are larger. The members know the show and how we react in the forums.

 

[mrGTB]

Jeez, what on earth happened in this thread. It's turned into World War 3. Who's playing the Germans?

But seriously, I read that thread posted on your forum and there's only a handful of members complaining from what I see, maybe you should have created a Vote Poll or something in another thread (or the same one asking for all members opinions about using XF instead of vB4). Have you considered yet, that maybe, just maybe. They don't like XF and you'd have been better sticking with vBulletin 4.

And don't all jump on me at once for saying that!

 

[Gene Steinberg]

That certainly might be a possibility. It's not as if it's necessarily feasible at this point. The only practical solution may be to simply attempt to make the forum more like vB in form and function, although that's only a partial solution.

As I said before, though, I did test market with smaller forums and, also, asked the moderators, skilled about forums and such, for their reactions, and they loved the new system.

 

[mrGTB]

Well if they all voted overwhelmingly to go back to vB4, your left with a very hard decision on your hands. Only you can make your mind-up what to do in that situation. Either way it would be better for you to know what the bulk of your members think (rather than just a small handful of them) in helping you make your mind-up. But, I would for now get rid of that XF default theme look ASAP. I used to really like the XF default theme, I thought it looked good at one point. Now I think it looks very bland and unappealing. I suspect many of your members might feel pretty much the same way.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

And it's not as if there's a convenient method to import the XF messages into vB, even if we had to consider returning, not to mention buying a new license.

I welcome suggestions as to other themes, but I wonder if it's more the features and functions, which wouldn't change regardless. The theme would mostly change the colors, perhaps the fonts. It would look different, but work the same.

 

[-GR-]

What was your actual active members when you were on vb, meaning the average active members that would show down under the what's going on?

What are your average active members you have now since moving to XF?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

It's down about half what it was, although it bounces up and down depending on the time of day. Then again, you have people who go off and live their lives, and return. We just want them back.

 

[-GR-]

Here are a couple of suggestions, blending your logo in with the header color and make it shorter. Try running less ads or no ads for a while until you start getting some more active members and only show the ads to guests once you ad them back in. Shorten your welcome notice so it doesn't take over half of the page above the fold. Also maybe hide the donation block for the time being.

 

[mrGTB]

Your running a paranormal forum I spotted, colours like grey, black and white spring to my mind. This theme might work well because it's classy and looks really good. Just a case of creating a good logo that's adds more atmosphere to the theme making it look more paranormal based. The theme also uses quite a lot of image backgrounds for cats e.t.c. You could even replace those with ghostly images or what ever to further make the theme look better for using?

http://xfdev.akrion.net/index.php

 

[Gene Steinberg]

The logo is the same one on our main site, but maybe we can integrate it better, but I'd need a tad of designer advice.

As to ads: We have paid contracts with some of those advertisers. They're not just affiliate ads, so we'd have a problem with that.

As to the Welcome notice. It's always been the current and next show, and it's only visible on the home page. Maybe make it just the next show?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Your running a paranormal forum I spotted, colours like grey, black and white spring to my mind. This theme moght work well because it's classy and looks really good. Just a case of creating a good logo that's adds more atmosphere to the theme making it look more paranormal based.

http://xfdev.akrion.net/index.php

We've already gotten great response to the new logo.

The question is what colors fit in with that. Also, I don't want the white type over black thing. You can't read that stuff. I'll look into your theme suggestion.

 

[Deepmartini]

It's down about half what it was, although it bounces up and down depending on the time of day. Then again, you have people who go off and live their lives, and return. We just want them back.

Look at the unsubscribes to your newsletter list and other customer communication channels (facebook, twitter, etc). That may offer clues to why people are not returning if you can correlate it with a traffic decline on the forum as well. People don't like what they read or the marketing message doesn't appeal to them, so they don't come back and stop participating.

 

[-GR-]

The logo is the same one on our main site, but maybe we can integrate it better, but I'd need a tad of designer advice.

As to ads: We have paid contracts with some of those advertisers. They're not just affiliate ads, so we'd have a problem with that.

As to the Welcome notice. It's always been the current and next show, and it's only visible on the home page. Maybe make it just the next show?

The biggest thing is between your logo being tall and your notice being tall it pushes the content down. I am not saying get rid of the notice but make it short and sweet. Like one sentence for each thing without a line break and link it to a thread if need be to provide more information.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

OK, I'll lean out the Notice. Not a bad idea.