tiny house

[David Copeland]

Hmmm . . .

I guess I misunderstood the point.

For those of us who gave up the big cities, crowds, sales tax, over regulation, high cost to do business, high cost of water and power and gas, and chose to move to Montana - we did so because we looked at the increase in our quality of life - and not the increase of the planet's quality of life (which, as individuals, we have no ultimate control over).

Yes, we are doing MUCH better, living on less, having more money after the end of the month, and breathing quality air, drinking pristine water, and enjoying nature like we have never seen (except on National Geographic).

No, I would not consider moving to Norway. I will live my years out here in Montana, and be buried for less than $99 in a pine box on free land.

When I see the price of small motor homes selling for $100,000 and up, I think of the Tiny House concept for less money, and placing it on a few acres in Montana where we can hear our natural neighbors. But for now, I am not counting the heads of the birds, bees, and trees as much as I am counting the yesterdays that I have enjoyed here.

David

 

[Bob]

Hmmm . . .

I guess I misunderstood the point.

For those of us who gave up the big cities, crowds, sales tax, over regulation, high cost to do business, high cost of water and power and gas, and chose to move to Montana - we did so because we looked at the increase in our quality of life - and not the increase of the planet's quality of life (which, as individuals, we have no ultimate control over).

Yes, we are doing MUCH better, living on less, having more money after the end of the month, and breathing quality air, drinking pristine water, and enjoying nature like we have never seen (except on National Geographic).

No, I would not consider moving to Norway. I will live my years out here in Montana, and be buried for less than $99 in a pine box on free land.

When I see the price of small motor homes selling for $100,000 and up, I think of the Tiny House concept for less money, and placing it on a few acres in Montana where we can hear our natural neighbors. But for now, I am not counting the heads of the birds, bees, and trees as much as I am counting the yesterdays that I have enjoyed here.

David

Where in Montana? I live in East Missoula (on 20 acres near Marshall Ski area). I am not a transplant however, I was born and raised here (4th generation Montanan).

 

[BGL]

Yeah that's pretty much what it amounts to. Gotta move away from people to do something like this. The thing is I don't desire to move away. I want to live small and connected. I've got all of the numbers worked out. Cost, electricity, everything.

Living small doesn't mean living in the wilderness. Can be done anywhere.

 

[MagnusB]

You are correct - but, then again, where do you think that steel and aluminum goes? It goes to making cars and bridges and ships so that people can consume and drive more!

It's a complex subject, but I summarize it as this....yes, even if you live in a cave and eat rabbits you kill with a slingshot - if you are an American you automatically use vast amounts of energy because the government creates a military, infrastructure and many other things based on head count!

That's is on the side, the point is that the industry has the most potential, and this is where the cost / benefit is the greatest. Even if everyone stopped consuming, our entire economy is energy based, be it production, logistics and even sales. If we stopped using oil tomorrow, the world would stop turning so to say.

BTW, production of solar panels is highly energy consuming, and the output efficiency is pretty poor. It is a dead end in terms of energy, IMO, and more a gimmick. Some places it is suited, but not as a green technology. Wind power is more viable, but still expensive and low efficiency, wave energy have potential, but no one has ever been able to figure out how to use it efficiently, except for some small self contained systems. Water falls and nuclear power are reliable and eco friendly, though nobody wants nuclear power, cause of the waste.

The best thing you can do for the environment is not to buy green certificates, that money ends up in some traders pocket, or a big government administration, don't give money to Greenpeace or similar to ease your conscience, that money goes to some symbolic action with no net result. Just buy less sh**....

 

[Forsaken]

I would go crazy in this house. Enough room to prop my feet up against the wall and still easily crack my head against the opposite wall. Besides where would you put the TV, computer, refrigerator, xbox, and other essentials? Screw green. I'll take a regular sized house. Really if you want something like that....go buy a damn mini RV. Really.

I'm glad you feel his choice to have a lesser impact on the environment (RV's definitely aren't a solution to what he wants) is meaningless.

Other than a refrigerator, and a computer dedicated for business, everything else is a luxury and not a requirement.

While I personally wouldn't be able to live in a small house, and I definitely prefer having my luxuries, I can see why he's making this choice. I've also decided that when I move and in the process of having the house built I'll be having it built as green as possible, as well as taking into account alternative energy (Though I'll have backup power in case of a blackout) and other measures to lower my own footprint, as well as bills.

 

[BGL]

If we stopped using oil tomorrow, the world would stop turning so to say.

No...oil companies would stop "turning", our electric cars, trains, our hydrogen powered jets and ships, our fusion powered grid would all be ticking along nicely. With $1.4T a year bonus for money we spend a year on military with the main job of securing oil (21 years of continuous oil war to date) and a $500B per year bonus in no oil import tax. So figure 20% boost to US GDP.

BTW, production of solar panels is highly energy consuming, and the output efficiency is pretty poor.

No it's not as those profitable industries in Korea, Germany and China demonstrate but that begs the question compared to what with what result? Is building Deep Water Horizon oil rigs energy consuming and efficient?

 

[craigiri]

don't give money to Greenpeace or similar to ease your conscience, that money goes to some symbolic action with no net result. Just buy less sh**....

One can do all of the above!

My daughter is an attorney for Sierra Club - she makes 1/4 the salary she would make in the private sector. Just FYI, these places only hire the best of the best (top 10 law schools, top students, etc.)....

Bloomberg just gave them 50 million to shut down dirty coal plants. I think they have shut down over 100 of them.

It all helps. Using less stuff is a big one, but I agree with you that it is large scale engineering which will hold the key to the future.

I am a bit of a futurist myself - I envision a day when humans will look back and make jokes about the fact that we had limited energy and fought over it. That is, energy is really limitless and eventually we will harness cleaner or totally clean sources in an almost unlimited fashion. Still, you have to use materials to build a house so that will be no reason to make larger ones!

 

[MagnusB]

No...oil companies would stop "turning", our electric cars, trains, our hydrogen powered jets and ships, our fusion powered grid would all be ticking along nicely. With $1.4T a year bonus for money we spend a year on military with the main job of securing oil (21 years of continuous oil war to date) and a $500B per year bonus in no oil import tax. So figure 20% boost to US GDP.

We already have electrically powered trains, they run pretty efficient. Doesn't matter much though, since most of the electricity in the world is produced with coal. Electric cars are only profitable cause of the strong subsidies they get from various governments. The vendors over here are scared to death of the politicians will remove them. Hydrogen powered ships and air planes is a dream, it is no where near being realized, we have just started realizing hydrogen as a fuel for cars. As far as I know, there are no ship owners even looking at hydrogen cells as a fuel. For short sea LNG can work, for deep sea, they are looking at dual fuel. My current company is building 2 + 2 LNG powered vessels now, for short sea shipping. With a reach of 10 days and fuel tanks 3 times the size conventional tanks, EX proofing, A60 division and more makes it very expensive. We would have never done it if it were not for the subsidies from the government.

Pretty much every ship owner I have talked with are pretty much only looking at LNG as an alternative fuel source, and then with a dual fuel engine, not a pure LNG engine. I know there are some "future ship" projects using solar power, nuclear power and whatever. Those are mostly a PR gimmick, and no where near being realized. For air planes, I am not as sure what is being done, but I know they are very focused on doing some studies that make their current model look green. I saw one German study that managed to claim that freight by air planes had less emissions than by ship, which was almost as much BS as the UN report.

No it's not as those profitable industries in Korea, Germany and China demonstrate but that begs the question compared to what with what result? Is building Deep Water Horizon oil rigs energy consuming and efficient?

Highly profitable? Are you kidding me? Chinese government is subsidizing Chinese companies producing wafers, the price is an all time low. Others competing have no chance, but it makes purchasing wafers and operating them more profitable. Besides, that wasn't the point, the point was production is very energy consuming, and not at all "green". Drilling for oil is energy efficient, you get more energy out than you put in, due to the simple fact that there is a pressure in the deposit that helps you get it up. Most oil platforms are powered by oil, in some form or another, if you spent more than you got out, you would never reach a surplus. Refined oil is usually more expensive than crude oil, so you would probably end up in a net loss if that was the case. I am not sure if anyone has done a complete LCA on a oil platform, but I would be interested to see the energy balance, from production of said platform (including raw material) and expected output.

I am not saying you shouldn't be care or do anything, that everything is hopeless, my point is that we are spending a ton of money on dead end solutions, which will not benefit us at all, we end back on the same spot, only much much poorer. And if we are not in war for oil, we will find another resource to fight about....

 

[Forsaken]

One can do all of the above!

My daughter is an attorney for Sierra Club - she makes 1/4 the salary she would make in the private sector. Just FYI, these places only hire the best of the best (top 10 law schools, top students, etc.)....

Bloomberg just gave them 50 million to shut down dirty coal plants. I think they have shut down over 100 of them.

It all helps. Using less stuff is a big one, but I agree with you that it is large scale engineering which will hold the key to the future.

I am a bit of a futurist myself - I envision a day when humans will look back and make jokes about the fact that we had limited energy and fought over it. That is, energy is really limitless and eventually we will harness cleaner or totally clean sources in an almost unlimited fashion. Still, you have to use materials to build a house so that will be no reason to make larger ones!

You quoted the wrong person with your quote: here's the actual post you wanted to quote http://xenforo.com/community/threads/tiny-house.1893/page-5#post-386287

 

[Brandon Sheley]

People that want a simple life just gets left behind in the world IMHO.

I'm guessing you posted on the wrong thread since this isn't logical at all.

People that live simple lives are doing just that, living a simple life.
This doesn't mean you have to give up anything or does it mean you'll get "left behind"

To the OP, maybe this forum will be of some help.

http://www.reddit.com/r/tinyhouses

 

[Forsaken]

I'm guessing you posting on the wrong thread since this isn't logical at all.

People that live simple lives are doing just that, living a simple life.
This doesn't mean you have to give up anything or does it mean you'll get "left behind"

To the OP, maybe this forum will be of some help.

http://www.reddit.com/r/tinyhouses

Brandon_R got banned within the first year of being on XenForo. He's got about 4 other accounts here that were also banned iirc.

 

[Brandon Sheley]

Brandon_R got banned within the first year of being on XenForo. He's got about 4 other accounts here that were also banned iirc.

ooh, I didn't bother to dig around

but I will say I've been reading the tinyhouses section on reddit, there is some really good stuff in there if you look

 

[David Copeland]

Where in Montana? I live in East Missoula (on 20 acres near Marshall Ski area). I am not a transplant however, I was born and raised here (4th generation Montanan).

Our office is in Lakeside, Montana, about 2 hours north from you. (Unless you put the petal to the metal)

 

[Cal]

I'm glad you feel his choice to have a lesser impact on the environment (RV's definitely aren't a solution to what he wants) is meaningless.

Well can't help to call out the obvious. He's making money off you guys. Why wouldn't you buy an rv? Lets see......RV vs (mobile) shed on a trailer attached to a car. Ok...well they both use gas...but....oh hang on they are the same concept.

If you are going to be green....go out and actually do something green lol. Unless your green equals a $20K advanced tool shed....or if you choose to build said shed yourself.....$600 for the poorly photoshopped plans (hahaha) then you really are doing no one a favor.

I like being green...but if I'm going to be green I'm going to do something that actually helps said cause.

On the topic of those sheds...well.....PT Barnum once said "there's a sucker born every minute".

 

[Bob]

Our office is in Lakeside, Montana, about 2 hours north from you. (Unless you put the petal to the metal)

Love the Flathead Valley!! I grew up in West Glacier and have a cabin at Pinnacle (7 miles west of Essex across the river from Glacier)....I drive through Lakeside all the time (unless I head up through the Swan Valley or take the east side of the lake.

 

[BGL]

We already have electrically powered trains, they run pretty efficient.

World does. US doesn't.

Doesn't matter much though, since most of the electricity in the world is produced with coal.

Eyup. We want to end that.

Electric cars are only profitable cause of the strong subsidies they get from various governments.

Nope but we should be subsidizing them even more as we did with gasoline powered cars when they came out.

Hydrogen powered ships and air planes is a dream, it is no where near being realized, we have just started realizing hydrogen as a fuel for cars.

Eyup so we have to get to work there.

As far as I know, there are no ship owners even looking at hydrogen cells as a fuel. For short sea LNG can work, for deep sea, they are looking at dual fuel. My current company is building 2 + 2 LNG powered vessels now, for short sea shipping. With a reach of 10 days and fuel tanks 3 times the size conventional tanks, EX proofing, A60 division and more makes it very expensive. We would have never done it if it were not for the subsidies from the government.

Eyup. Fossil fuels like oil and coal get huge subsidies. A strong case can be made that the $1.4 per year US military costs are a subsidy for oil use since most of that spending is due to the 21 year old current Middle East oil war.

my point is that we are spending a ton of money on dead end solutions,

So right. We need to end oil, coal, natural gas subsidies and spend that money on solar, wind, tidal, energy conservation (that will cut US oil use 50%), fusion plus the infrastructure like a national high speed electric rail system that more advanced economies build years ago or, like China, are building out now for the future.

 

[David Copeland]

Here is a video showing how a guy builds small homes for $200 or less:

http://screen.yahoo.com/want-a-house-for-200-or-less-build-it-yourself-29998719.html

 

[Jake Bunce]

want

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it's like a tiny car

 

[BGL]

it's like a tiny car

But now it gets dangerous. Careless big house is not going to run over your tiny house. Lots of nice SAFE TO DRIVE electric cars out there.

 

[Forsaken]

want

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it's like a tiny car

That would totally not work in CA where 99.999999% drivers are *******s.

Also, I'd never fit in one of those lol.