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Suggestion to improve subscription/license rules.

Discussion in 'General XenForo Discussion and Feedback' started by Etherus, Aug 8, 2015.

  1. Etherus

    Etherus Member


    I would like to suggest to have a slightly better subscription/license rules when it comes to multiple languages.

    Let me explain I want to run 1 forum but in two languages so I bought two domains.


    Now I want to run technically the exact same forum on both domains but I wish to hide the English content on the Japanese forum and the other way around.

    In my case the user base, the whole of the site , the logo even the actual topics (forums/categories) are all the same except for the language and the posts of the users would be Japanese or English depending on domain.

    Now support explained me that this kind of setup requires me to buy two licenses, I personally think that in the year 2015 this is a really outdated model especially for people that use the product to provide a free community for others.

    So I would suggest an updated license something like this:
    If the domains are the same name, and belong to the same owner and on top of that if the whole site looks the same and has the same logo that you would be allowed to run multiple languages.

    In this case I talk about using the following add-on to make this possible:
    XenCentral Multisite System

    I think buying two licenses for basically providing the exact same content is kind of going little to far and then also having to pay double renewal fees for the same forum (since server wise I only use 1 downloaded forum and 1 database).

    I hope this is something you could look into and consider perhaps. :)
    Daniel Hood likes this.
  2. n00bsaibot

    n00bsaibot Well-Known Member

    Wouldn't the typical application of this be to use language sub-domains?


    That way you don't split your google rank across 2 domains.
  3. James

    James Well-Known Member

    To have post content in a different language would require 2 licences as you are in fact changing content.

    If you're simply just changing the language translation then mirroring your board but having each URL default to a specific language shouldn't require two licences.

    I believe that all parts of your site have to be accessible across all domains go warrant only using one licence.

    If example.jp changed the language to Japanese from English then not sure you'd need a second licence.
  4. Etherus

    Etherus Member

    All parts are available from all domains but once you hide certain forums on another url or even subdomain to make it look a Japanese website they already feel it warrants a new license.
    So therefore this post in the hope they can make it slightly more relaxed their license to allow multiple language (posts and only visible for that language) as long as the whole website, domain name (not extension), logo etc is the same.
    they can clearly see then it is the same community.

    I guess depends google is pretty smart and uses the domains to target the country the search comes from according to:
    Multi-regional and multilingual sites - Search Console Help

    So I guess there is no difference really, but in either way sub domain or url both requires two licenses and update support a year that is allot of money for me at-least.

    Perhaps another idea could be to sell this kind of thing perhaps ask 25 dollar and then allow to use the same installation in the way I describe above.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2015
  5. James

    James Well-Known Member

    Would you be intending to hide forums? Can you not have all forums available on both instances?
  6. Mr Lucky

    Mr Lucky Well-Known Member

    I don't quite understand this. Are you saying if I post in English, my post also gets shown but translated to Japanese on the .jp site? How do you do that ?
  7. James

    James Well-Known Member

    I think what he's saying is he wants X forum nodes for Japanese users to be shown at example.jp and he wants X forum nodes for English users to be shown at example.net?

    In which case it would require 2 licences. If both forums' nodes were accessible on both versions of the site it would only require one.
  8. Mr Lucky

    Mr Lucky Well-Known Member

    But the same database?
  9. Etherus

    Etherus Member

    Exactly as you say it to explain it once more what I say is:

    example.net has a forum called "Random"
    example.jp has a forum called "ランダム" (this also means Random)

    example.net has a forum called "Guides"
    example.jp has a forum called "ガイド" (this also means Guides)

    So in reality I have just created 4 forums in total.

    So on example.net I hide the Japanese named forums and on example.jp I hide the English named forum.
    So when I go to example.jp it shows all the same forums I would have on .net but in Japanese.

    So on example.net you would post in English as I hidden the Japanese forums and on the example.jp you post in Japanese as I hidden the English forums.
    In the end the whole website looks the same and it would have all the same forums except for the language and the posts inside the forum are different.

    I am aware that the above setup requires two license thats why this was posted in the suggestions forum because in the end I use the same software, same "named domain" same look and feel.
    And if you would search on any of the website you still find all posts English or Japanese.

    Again this is just a suggestion that would benefit everyone in the end if they could make the rules slightly better or provide an option to have it for perhaps a cheaper fee since in the end I am not making a new installation.
  10. Snog

    Snog Well-Known Member

    Just the same domain name with a different TLD doesn't mean the same person owns the two sites. They are considered two totally different sites in all aspects of the internet.
  11. Etherus

    Etherus Member

    I mean everyone with two eyes can look at a website and if they look exactly the same, and if the owner of the domains are the same, point to the same ip, can search for the same content on both sites.
    heck can use google translate and translate the Japanese and it looks the same as the English one can see it is the same community.

    And as I wrote as second suggestion they could charge a smaller fee for this kind of setups and you register the domain that would use the other language.

    Perhaps I should have not mentioned two domains and just talk about sub-domains "en.example.net" and "jp.example.net" I guess it would have cause less confusion.

    Not sure why so many replies confirming this are two different sites or requires two license my first post already said I am aware of that I actually spoke with Xenforo on support.
    This is a suggestion.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2015
  12. Mr Lucky

    Mr Lucky Well-Known Member

    A sub domain is really a different domain

    The best solution I can see is to have one domain and allow people to see both the English and Japanese forums.

    Unasked you do that then it is basically two different forums, albeit that the design is the same.

    If the posts are different in each it is two forums even if the subject being posted about is the same so I can see why you would need two licenses
  13. James

    James Well-Known Member

    Could you not have both sets of forums accessible on both languages then use one of the addons so individual members can hide the forums they don't wish to see.

    Both domains have the same content and your users can hide the language they don't know.
  14. FredC

    FredC Well-Known Member

    it is what it is.. I have two forums sitting on a single domain.. I sometimes want to switch premium plugins around pretty sure that would get me in a bit of trouble here so i just by two of everything.. for example I have the resource manager on license two where i would have liked to used it on license one since they are both on the same domain i don't know what the problem would be but im certain there would be one.. Another example is i have XFES installed on license 1 but when users get directed to license two the search is default.. So i have to purchase a second when in reality id like to merge to a single DB where a single license works both instances.. But in reality im unclear since most license details say good for a single domain which should be safe but im betting it would cause issues..
  15. n00bsaibot

    n00bsaibot Well-Known Member

  16. Sadik B

    Sadik B Well-Known Member

    Are you not overthinking this?

    Why have two different forums in two languages? What problem does it solve? Why prevent people who know both japanese and english, like yourself, from accessing the english site? Will you start a third forum if you decide to to include chinese language?

    Instead why not just have one forum and multiple forum categories for each of the language your site caters to. I believe xenforo lets you select language on a node basis. If it doesn't that would be a simple addon.

    My suggestion is to think simple... If after you launch one site and you feel japanese people need a separate site, it's easy to start another one and import. Trying to do everything perfect right from the start and trying to do everything at the beginning often means nothing gets done.

  17. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    Why not use custom user fields and user group promotions?
    Each language selected would grant access to the associated forum.
  18. Etherus

    Etherus Member

    actually this suggestion goes even further in the end my ultimate goal was to make a "stackoverflow" like site on top of Xenforo.
    as I was working on here: question about database query / Strings, arrays

    I had the whole theme almost working till I found out how restricted the policy is (my own fault for not good reading).

    But in case of Stackoverflow they use sub domains to specify the content so you can go to science.example.net it would show a q/a of science,
    you can go to hardware.example.net and it would show a q/a of hardware, this is exactly how stackoverflow works yet you still can search for every post on all sites and any of the subdomains you clearly see you are on
    stackoverflow as the whole site looks the same except for the q/a (forums).

    The above is the same example as with the languages it is currently not allowed, in the case above if I would want to make a theme based on stackoverflow then currently it means if I make 25 subdomains I have to pay 25 licenses.

    So again there is nothing wrong with suggestion or a better license or perhaps a payment option with a small fee so you are allowed to setup the above or the language bit.

    If you understand the Japanese culture then you would understand that mixing a Japanese / English website wont work very good that is the exact reason to have it on a .jp and on a .net domain.
    and by making multiple categories that would mean if you have a big forum with many categories that you end up with instead of 25 with 50 because you have to show both languages, or make some thing where people need to do manual labor to get the right forums to show.

    How would one automate this? with a few users would be fine what if your forum starts to get popular are you going to have to manually make sure the correct people are granted access to the right languages?
    Or would you need to make it so people will have to do something manually? As making people do stuff manually is old school then it is much easier to let people go to the correct domain.
  19. Brogan

    Brogan XenForo Moderator Staff Member

    The members check the languages in their profile options and the promotions are automatic.

    The requisite custom user fields, user groups, and promotions need to be set up in the ACP.
  20. James

    James Well-Known Member

    You could make:
    japanese.example.net that directs to a Japanese forum category.
    english.example.net that directs to an English forum category.
    science.example.net that directs to a Science forum category.

    Literally just redirect those domains to point to the relevant category and it's fine under the licence terms I believe. As long as the whole forum is accessible (which it is because you can just use the breadcrumb to navigate back up) then you should be fine.

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