Star Trek Into Darkness
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BirdOPrey5
in memoriam 2024
Oh man I like these scrolling quotes...
I agree, this crew is too young, but my point is the whale probe doesn't come for another maybe 20 years... They can make a future movie with an aged crew, it is fairly easy to age actors on screen. After another 1 or 2 "young" movies they may be looking for a change.
Taylor J
Well-known member
You enjoyed the movie didn't you?
Ehhh it was okay. I just remember it all that is.
SneakyDave
Well-known member
Maybe it's just me, and I'm old, but everytime I see the movie title or this thread title, I hear...
Slippin' Into Darkness by War
Slippin' Into Darkness by War
Shelley
Well-known member
Jake Bunce
Well-known member
I managed to see ST12. Here is my review. Overall I would call it mediocre.
_____
1) Cold fusion reactions are not cold. "Cold" refers to low activation energy. The actual fusion reaction is highly exothermic. Using cold fusion to freeze a volcano makes no sense.
2) Why did the Enterprise hide under water? Would they not have been seen entering the atmosphere and entering the ocean? That civilization was obviously pre-telescope. Just keep the enterprise in high orbit. It wouldn't be seen from the surface.
3) The entire opening scene is a contradiction of the prime directive. They are essentially arguing about not interfering with an alien culture while interfering with an alien culture. They are trying to interfere secretly by stopping the volcano without them knowing, but stopping the volcano is already interference. Star Fleet captains (Kirk included) have violated the prime directive on numerous occasions so I have no problem with that fact of the matter. But it's a problem when you contradict yourself while trying to rationalize the action. It's like they are writing the story backwards, starting with action scenes and then filling in the blanks with nonsense.
4) I find it highly awkward that they re-promoted Kirk to captain again in ST12, under ridiculous circumstances just like they did in ST11. In ST11 Kirk stowed away, became first officer, and then trolled his way into the captain's chair by taunting Spock. Then in ST12 he was demoted to cadet, promoted again to first, and then given his command again by the very admiral that demoted him in the first place. The first time was a stretch but it was perhaps forgivable since they needed some way to establish Kirk as captain. But why do it a second time? It is as if strife and conflict are being used as an end in themselves. Very poor.
5) "Transwarp transporter" doesn't make sense. "Warp" is a measure of velocity. You don't say "light speed transporter." This movie uses "transwarp" to describe both engines and transporters. It's an engine technology, not a transporter technology.
6) Beaming from Earth to Kronos? Please. Beaming between planets in the same solar system in ST11 was already well in excess of the maximum transport range of 40,000 kilometers, saying nothing of beaming between two different solar systems. They are taking excessive liberties with technology in the new universe. This creates lots of problems. For example, you don't need star ships to travel anymore if you can just beam to your destination.
6) The "captain's oath" at the end of the movie was not an oath, it was the intro dialogue from the TV series. An oath is a factual statement or a promise, not a third person narrative like the intro dialogue. The dialogue that he recited was also awkward because it speaks to what Star Trek was before the reboot and it is implied that the new crew will now return to the old ways. I would welcome such a return but that sort of defeats the purpose of the reboot. This reboot universe is having an identity crisis.
7) The brief conversation with Spock Prime was very odd. Spock Prime basically says, "I can't tell you about the future, but now I will tell you about the future." It was self-contradictory and contributed nothing to the plot.
8) Khan's voice is like dark chocolate ice cream with walnuts. Yummy.
9) Lens flares are still there.
10) The new emotional Spock just isn't working out. He frequently demonstrates emotion and makes it clear that he understands emotion, but then he reverts to his logical persona which is oblivious to emotion. The oblivious Spock was always used as a mild source of comedy and they still use him as such, but the joke becomes confused when in the very next scene Spock is crying and talking openly about his emotions.
11) The end scene where Kirk dies in the core made me literally LOL. The entire scene was lifted from ST2 with many exact quotes. And Spock yelling "Khan" was just strange and also a ripoff. Directly copying that entire scene was obviously meant to appeal to trekkies who have seen ST2, but as a member of that target audience I have to say that the entire scene rang hollow and made me laugh. The fact that it was copied made it seem very fake which totally killed the emotional climax that it was meant to be. Imagine a Blade Runner remake where the ending scene is copied word for word but Deckard and Roy have switched places. It's just weird and fake and laughable if you have seen the original, and it certainly does not carry the same emotional weight.
12) The entire middle of the movie was actually very good, between the time that the Enterprise was sent to Kronos and when they warped back to Earth. The Khan story was good. The admiral's story was good. Using Khan's torpedos against him was a nice turn. I re-watched the movie a few times and explored a few possible plot holes in the middle of the movie, but I found everything to be in order. No problems except for the conversation with Spock Prime which I mentioned previously.
13) Khan and Admiral Marcus both had depth which was good (much better than Nero). Otherwise the characters were extremely weak just like in ST11. The Spock/Ohura relationship still has no basis beyond sympathy. I still do not like Vulcans being portrayed as closet humans with respect to their emotions because it takes away an important dimension of a now very one-dimensional crew. All of the other Enterprise crew members still have no depth to them.
14) Carol Marcus's little cock tease in the shuttle annoyed me personally because I hate it when women do that to me.
15) In ST11 reference was made to Nurse Chapel onboard the Enterprise, but in ST12 they said she left the Enterprise to become a nurse. Contradiction.
16) Khan is 5x stronger than humans. Vulcans are 3x stronger than humans. Since Khan has a 66% strength advantage I would have expected him to fare better in his fight with Spock. Spock is also half human which should have given Khan an even greater advantage.
17) It was a little too convenient that Scotty boarded the Admiral's ship, and that the Enterprise fell out of warp just 200,000 kilometers from Earth.
_____
1) Cold fusion reactions are not cold. "Cold" refers to low activation energy. The actual fusion reaction is highly exothermic. Using cold fusion to freeze a volcano makes no sense.
2) Why did the Enterprise hide under water? Would they not have been seen entering the atmosphere and entering the ocean? That civilization was obviously pre-telescope. Just keep the enterprise in high orbit. It wouldn't be seen from the surface.
3) The entire opening scene is a contradiction of the prime directive. They are essentially arguing about not interfering with an alien culture while interfering with an alien culture. They are trying to interfere secretly by stopping the volcano without them knowing, but stopping the volcano is already interference. Star Fleet captains (Kirk included) have violated the prime directive on numerous occasions so I have no problem with that fact of the matter. But it's a problem when you contradict yourself while trying to rationalize the action. It's like they are writing the story backwards, starting with action scenes and then filling in the blanks with nonsense.
4) I find it highly awkward that they re-promoted Kirk to captain again in ST12, under ridiculous circumstances just like they did in ST11. In ST11 Kirk stowed away, became first officer, and then trolled his way into the captain's chair by taunting Spock. Then in ST12 he was demoted to cadet, promoted again to first, and then given his command again by the very admiral that demoted him in the first place. The first time was a stretch but it was perhaps forgivable since they needed some way to establish Kirk as captain. But why do it a second time? It is as if strife and conflict are being used as an end in themselves. Very poor.
5) "Transwarp transporter" doesn't make sense. "Warp" is a measure of velocity. You don't say "light speed transporter." This movie uses "transwarp" to describe both engines and transporters. It's an engine technology, not a transporter technology.
6) Beaming from Earth to Kronos? Please. Beaming between planets in the same solar system in ST11 was already well in excess of the maximum transport range of 40,000 kilometers, saying nothing of beaming between two different solar systems. They are taking excessive liberties with technology in the new universe. This creates lots of problems. For example, you don't need star ships to travel anymore if you can just beam to your destination.
6) The "captain's oath" at the end of the movie was not an oath, it was the intro dialogue from the TV series. An oath is a factual statement or a promise, not a third person narrative like the intro dialogue. The dialogue that he recited was also awkward because it speaks to what Star Trek was before the reboot and it is implied that the new crew will now return to the old ways. I would welcome such a return but that sort of defeats the purpose of the reboot. This reboot universe is having an identity crisis.
7) The brief conversation with Spock Prime was very odd. Spock Prime basically says, "I can't tell you about the future, but now I will tell you about the future." It was self-contradictory and contributed nothing to the plot.
8) Khan's voice is like dark chocolate ice cream with walnuts. Yummy.
9) Lens flares are still there.
10) The new emotional Spock just isn't working out. He frequently demonstrates emotion and makes it clear that he understands emotion, but then he reverts to his logical persona which is oblivious to emotion. The oblivious Spock was always used as a mild source of comedy and they still use him as such, but the joke becomes confused when in the very next scene Spock is crying and talking openly about his emotions.
11) The end scene where Kirk dies in the core made me literally LOL. The entire scene was lifted from ST2 with many exact quotes. And Spock yelling "Khan" was just strange and also a ripoff. Directly copying that entire scene was obviously meant to appeal to trekkies who have seen ST2, but as a member of that target audience I have to say that the entire scene rang hollow and made me laugh. The fact that it was copied made it seem very fake which totally killed the emotional climax that it was meant to be. Imagine a Blade Runner remake where the ending scene is copied word for word but Deckard and Roy have switched places. It's just weird and fake and laughable if you have seen the original, and it certainly does not carry the same emotional weight.
12) The entire middle of the movie was actually very good, between the time that the Enterprise was sent to Kronos and when they warped back to Earth. The Khan story was good. The admiral's story was good. Using Khan's torpedos against him was a nice turn. I re-watched the movie a few times and explored a few possible plot holes in the middle of the movie, but I found everything to be in order. No problems except for the conversation with Spock Prime which I mentioned previously.
13) Khan and Admiral Marcus both had depth which was good (much better than Nero). Otherwise the characters were extremely weak just like in ST11. The Spock/Ohura relationship still has no basis beyond sympathy. I still do not like Vulcans being portrayed as closet humans with respect to their emotions because it takes away an important dimension of a now very one-dimensional crew. All of the other Enterprise crew members still have no depth to them.
14) Carol Marcus's little cock tease in the shuttle annoyed me personally because I hate it when women do that to me.
15) In ST11 reference was made to Nurse Chapel onboard the Enterprise, but in ST12 they said she left the Enterprise to become a nurse. Contradiction.
16) Khan is 5x stronger than humans. Vulcans are 3x stronger than humans. Since Khan has a 66% strength advantage I would have expected him to fare better in his fight with Spock. Spock is also half human which should have given Khan an even greater advantage.
17) It was a little too convenient that Scotty boarded the Admiral's ship, and that the Enterprise fell out of warp just 200,000 kilometers from Earth.
Shelley
Well-known member
1. exactly, that was my first thought which is why i linked to the bbc horizon link.
2. Agreed
3. Totally agree (it's a stupid segment) that didn't even need to be there which was totally unrelated to the rest of the movie. But you made better points.
4. Agreed
5. I can't say I noticed them saying that but that is my oversight. Good spot.
6. yup, i remember this.(edit: I remember you pointing that out in a previous post)
I dunno if you noticed but from the start of the movie they took an age to where they were going but when they tried to flee they got back to earth near enough instantly.
Suffice to say I agree with your review, good read.
Now are you sure you don't want to change your grading of the movie Jake from mediocre to "downright sh-t"?
2. Agreed
3. Totally agree (it's a stupid segment) that didn't even need to be there which was totally unrelated to the rest of the movie. But you made better points.
4. Agreed
5. I can't say I noticed them saying that but that is my oversight. Good spot.
6. yup, i remember this.(edit: I remember you pointing that out in a previous post)
I dunno if you noticed but from the start of the movie they took an age to where they were going but when they tried to flee they got back to earth near enough instantly.
Suffice to say I agree with your review, good read.
Now are you sure you don't want to change your grading of the movie Jake from mediocre to "downright sh-t"?
Jake Bunce
Well-known member
The only thing that saves it is point #12.
BirdOPrey5
in memoriam 2024
1) it's a movie
2) it's a movie
3) Sounds like Kirk convinced Spock it would be OK if the natives don't know. Considering Spock lost his entire planet he probably was not thinking clearly- we know he has emotion.
4) It was awkward you could just show up to a ship yard and join Starfleet with no paperwork, background check, or any prior planning. Anything since must just be the way Starfleet operates. Whatever sounds good at the time.
5) Maybe if you had a degree in Physics of Subspace you would feel differently. I don't think anyone in this century knows enough about the topic to know for sure if ti was a bad name or not.
6) Yeah... That wasn't believable. He could have just beamed to a fast ship that was on a course "directly for Kronos." Wouldn't have detracted from the movie and kept use Trek geeks happy.
7) Had to get Lenard Nimoy in the movie.
8) ???
9) Didn't notice (much)
10) New Spock had an emotional trauma more than any of us can imagine. We don't know how Spock in TOS would have handled witnessing, being somewhat responsible, for the destruction of Vulcan. It's like Vulcan PTSD. It changes you.
11) I thought that was great. Best part of the movie for reasons I've gone into before. Makes me feel like the is "fate" and an order to the universe. Even if a giant event changes the time line there is an unknown force that tries to make things right.
12) agree
13) The only Vulcan I recall in the movie is Spock (and Spock Prime) who is half human.
14) Star trek needs more women in underwear
15) Hadn't noticed but yes, would annoy me if I did. Suppose there could be two nurses with the same name though.
16) Would not get hung up on "5x vs 3x" you need to consider how strength was measured. Perhaps one number is bench-pressing and another is some other type of strength demonstration. Plus there are humans that are 5 times as strong as other humans so generalizing a species is X times stronger than another is suspect at best.
17) it's a movie
2) it's a movie
3) Sounds like Kirk convinced Spock it would be OK if the natives don't know. Considering Spock lost his entire planet he probably was not thinking clearly- we know he has emotion.
4) It was awkward you could just show up to a ship yard and join Starfleet with no paperwork, background check, or any prior planning. Anything since must just be the way Starfleet operates. Whatever sounds good at the time.
5) Maybe if you had a degree in Physics of Subspace you would feel differently. I don't think anyone in this century knows enough about the topic to know for sure if ti was a bad name or not.
6) Yeah... That wasn't believable. He could have just beamed to a fast ship that was on a course "directly for Kronos." Wouldn't have detracted from the movie and kept use Trek geeks happy.
7) Had to get Lenard Nimoy in the movie.
8) ???
9) Didn't notice (much)
10) New Spock had an emotional trauma more than any of us can imagine. We don't know how Spock in TOS would have handled witnessing, being somewhat responsible, for the destruction of Vulcan. It's like Vulcan PTSD. It changes you.
11) I thought that was great. Best part of the movie for reasons I've gone into before. Makes me feel like the is "fate" and an order to the universe. Even if a giant event changes the time line there is an unknown force that tries to make things right.
12) agree
13) The only Vulcan I recall in the movie is Spock (and Spock Prime) who is half human.
14) Star trek needs more women in underwear
15) Hadn't noticed but yes, would annoy me if I did. Suppose there could be two nurses with the same name though.
16) Would not get hung up on "5x vs 3x" you need to consider how strength was measured. Perhaps one number is bench-pressing and another is some other type of strength demonstration. Plus there are humans that are 5 times as strong as other humans so generalizing a species is X times stronger than another is suspect at best.
17) it's a movie
Shelley
Well-known member
Forsaken
Well-known member
Just going to leave that there for you to watch.
Jake Bunce
Well-known member
Did you like the movie? Make me a proposition. And please make a stronger argument than, "it's good because it's a movie and they had to get Leonard Nimoy in there."
I relinquish the podium to you. Sell me.
BirdOPrey5
in memoriam 2024
I did enjoy the movie, yes. Don't get me wrong, I would have preferred a good movie in the TOS/TNG/DS9 Universe but if that wasn't on the table, this was still a lot better than nothing.
We seem to have very different ways of interpreting what we see in the movie so I do not believe I have the ability to sway your opinion.
Look at the scene you described of Kirk dying- you described it quite well but everything you considered to be a negative, I considered to be a plus.
I can't argue the facts, you got the facts right. I disagree with the way you've interpreted them and there is no real chance of changing that.
It is my sincere hope that this "reboot" universe looks more and more like the original universe as time goes on. I like to believe that in the "real world" there is some hand of fate that guides us and if time travel was really used to disrupt the time line nature has a way of repairing things in time. In DS9 the mutants Dr. Bashir was working with made predictions based on some philosophy that over time what is going to happen will happen anyway regardless any individual event. While their predictions were wrong (for the time being) I do find merit in the philosophy.
You're basically asking me to change your fundamental belief system in a single post "I'm a life long Muslim. Convince me in 1 post to give up my faith and turn Catholic." - Ummm.. No thank you- challenge NOT accepted.
We seem to have very different ways of interpreting what we see in the movie so I do not believe I have the ability to sway your opinion.
Look at the scene you described of Kirk dying- you described it quite well but everything you considered to be a negative, I considered to be a plus.
I can't argue the facts, you got the facts right. I disagree with the way you've interpreted them and there is no real chance of changing that.
It is my sincere hope that this "reboot" universe looks more and more like the original universe as time goes on. I like to believe that in the "real world" there is some hand of fate that guides us and if time travel was really used to disrupt the time line nature has a way of repairing things in time. In DS9 the mutants Dr. Bashir was working with made predictions based on some philosophy that over time what is going to happen will happen anyway regardless any individual event. While their predictions were wrong (for the time being) I do find merit in the philosophy.
You're basically asking me to change your fundamental belief system in a single post "I'm a life long Muslim. Convince me in 1 post to give up my faith and turn Catholic." - Ummm.. No thank you- challenge NOT accepted.
Shelley
Well-known member
That my dear Jake is going into one of my signs release resource.
*adds to the never ending todo list*
Forsaken
Well-known member
It's probably a good action movie, but it's more Star Wars than Star Trek because the writers obviously didn't care about Star Trek
.
Jake Bunce
Well-known member
No no. I mean make a proposition.
The movie was good because _____________________.
Ideally it shouldn't be addressed to me and my specific points otherwise it becomes a response.
Shelley
Well-known member
The Movie was good because it wasn't Star Trek
The Movie was bad because it wasn't Star Trek
The Movie was bad because the cast did not fit their roles (Dr McCoy aka Bones might be the exception) might be with some reservation.
I'll be honest, alot of people will probably disagree with me regarding the cast, but I honestly think that most of them didn't suit their roles or deserved a place in the star trek universe since although they are good actors/actresses (Zoe Saldana) she was there because she's a well known. My view is Star Trek excels with unknown actors/actresses.
I won't go into the storyline and vent but gave another brief intro why it's, well, downright crap (I can't bring myself to say anything positive about this movie), sorry. Blah
The Movie was bad because it wasn't Star Trek
The Movie was bad because the cast did not fit their roles (Dr McCoy aka Bones might be the exception) might be with some reservation.
I'll be honest, alot of people will probably disagree with me regarding the cast, but I honestly think that most of them didn't suit their roles or deserved a place in the star trek universe since although they are good actors/actresses (Zoe Saldana) she was there because she's a well known. My view is Star Trek excels with unknown actors/actresses.
I won't go into the storyline and vent but gave another brief intro why it's, well, downright crap (I can't bring myself to say anything positive about this movie), sorry. Blah
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BirdOPrey5
in memoriam 2024
The movie was good because they tied it into Star Trek II and other Trek stories in general.
Forsaken
Well-known member
They didn't tie in, they directly ripped the stories and made an amalgamation that doesn't exactly live up to the hype, nor to the previous stories or the past series.
This is more Star Wars than Star Trek.